Interview with David Weinberg, November 10, 2016

CREW: Action.

CRANE: For official purposes, today is November 10th, 2016, and my name is Janice Crane, and I'm part of the interviewing team for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, funded by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. I'm honored and delighted to be here today with David Weinberg of Louisville, Kentucky. I met David many years ago when he attended the University of Kentucky, and I consider him my friend. Although we have not stayed in close contact, we've managed to--to stay somewhat connected over the years with the help of a few family members and some mutual friends. I look forward to hearing David's stories from his time at UK [University of Kentucky], his memories and experiences growing up in--Jewish, in Louisville, and his work and his family life, raising children in the same town where he grew up. So let's begin with some general information. What was your full name at birth, since it wasn't David?

WEINBERG: Uh, see, I surprised you, didn't I?

CRANE: That's right.

WEINBERG: It's Norman David Weinberg.

CRANE: Okay. For the rest of this--(Weinberg laughs)--um, interview, I'm gonna have to still call you David, 'cause that's what I know you as.

WEINBERG: My friends call me David. (Crane laughs) When I hear "Norman," I know it's a legal issue. (both laugh)

CRANE: A-ha. Okay. When and where were you born?

WEINBERG: Uh, I was born in Louisville, Kentucky, March 16th, 1946, at Jewish Hospital.

CRANE: I know that both of your parents have passed away, but for the record and because they are part of your story, what were their names, and about when and where were they born?

WEINBERG: Uh, Saul Weinberg, and, uh, he, uh, was born in Warsaw, Poland. Uh, he was born in 1907. Uh, and my mother, uh, was born in Kentucky. Esther Libby Berman. And she, uh, was born in 1915.

CRANE: And was she born in Louisville?

WEINBERG: In Louisville.

CRANE: Okay. And what about your grandparents? Where were they born?

WEINBERG: Uh, my grandfather, uh--well, my grandfather and my grandmother, uh, on the Weinberg side were born in Warsaw, uh, Poland. Uh, and my grandfather--I'm not sure where my grandmother Berman was born, but my grandfather Berman was born, uh, in Russia. And I'm not exactly sure where. Somewhere in the Lithuania type area.

CRANE: Uh, did your parents and your grandparents names change when they came to America?

WEINBERG: Uh, it did. Uh, my, uh--the Weinberg side was, uh--last name was Blizniak. Uh, and my grandfather actually--or my dad tra--traveled to this country as Isaac Blizniak. Uh, but their na--and, and my grandfather on the Berman side, uh, was Kirsch. Uh, I'm not sure how we get from Blizniak to 00:03:00Weinberg or Berman to Kirsch, but, but we did. Uh, and my grandmother, Bessie, uh, Price, uh, hers was something like "Paraplydgik" or "Paraplodgik" or somethin' like that.

CRANE: Okay. Do you want to spell--(Weinberg laughs)--any of those? (laughs)

WEINBERG: I will get to--if you need me to spell it, I will get it--

CRANE: --yes--

WEINBERG: --for you--

CRANE: --spell the--

WEINBERG: --at some point.

CRANE: --Blizniak first.

WEINBERG: B-l-i-z-n-i-a-k. Blizniak.

CRANE: Okay. And what was the--

WEINBERG: Kirsch?

CRANE: Uh-hm.

WEINBERG: Uh, was my grandfather--

CRANE: --and that's--

WEINBERG: --and my grandmother's maiden name was Karpik.

CRANE: And can you spell that?

WEINBERG: K-a-r-p-i-k.

CRANE: And how do you spell Kirsch?

WEINBERG: K-i-r-s-c-h.

CRANE: Okay. Um, I know you are married, so for the record, um, what is your wife's full name, and where is she from?

WEINBERG: Uh, she's from Louisville also. Her name is Beverly Eileen Bass 00:04:00Weinberg, and she'll be mad that I used the Eileen. (both laugh)

CRANE: And, um, what is your sister's full name, and what is her age relative to yours?

WEINBERG: Uh, she--

CRANE: --and I know her name's not the name I think of it either--(both laugh)

WEINBERG: Uh, again, she goes by her middle name, Gail. Uh, her, uh, birth name is, uh, Rita Gail, um, Weinberg, Levy. She's now a Levy, married to Phillip R. Levy. Uh, and this is my older sister, but she'll be glad to hear on tape also, uh, she was born in, uh, 1940, December of '40, so she's a little over five years older than I am.

CRANE: Okay. And she also lives in Louisville.

WEINBERG: She also lives in Louisville.

CRANE: I know that you have two children, so what are their names, and the ages of your children?

WEINBERG: Scott Allen Weinberg, and he does go by Scott, his first name. Uh, he is now forty-one. Uh, and my daughter's name is, uh, Lindsey Paige Weinberg 00:05:00Rossen, uh, and she's thirty-six.

CRANE: And will you spell her last name?

WEINBERG: R-o-s-s-e-n.

CRANE: Okay. And how 'bout--

WEINBERG: --she--she--

CRANE: --your grandchildren?

WEINBERG: --she lives in, uh, Connecticut--

CRANE: --okay--

WEINBERG: --Weston, Connecticut.

CRANE: And your five grandchildren, what are their names--(Weinberg laughs)--and ages?

WEINBERG: Uh, my five grandchildren are Mary Anne--(pause) (laughs)--we always call her, uh, um--can we go back a minute, or not? (laughs) We call her Anne Miriam.

CRANE: Okay.

WEINBERG: Uh, we call her Amma, uh, a lot. So--

CRANE: --Emma?--

WEINBERG: --Amma. A-m-m-a, instead of Anne Miriam. So that's why it confuses me a little bit. I don't usually call everybody by their legal--

CRANE: --real names--

WEINBERG: --names.

CRANE: Okay.

WEINBERG: Uh, Anne Miriam. She is eight, soon to be nine. Uh, Eloise Lily 00:06:00Weinberg, uh--

CRANE: --that's pretty--

WEINBERG: --she is, uh, six, and, uh, the youngest one of the Weinberg side of Scott's family, uh, is Beat--is Jane Beatrice, uh, Weinberg, and she is four.

CRANE: And you--

WEINBERG: --five-- (laughs)

CRANE: --and on--

WEINBERG: --four. Four--

CRANE: --Lindsey's side?

WEINBERG: Uh, on Lindsey's side, uh, is Sophie Gabrielle Rossen. Uh, she's seven. And then we got the only boy, and the last of the--uh, only boy of the family. And he's the youngest. And that's Ethan Benjamin Rossen.

CRANE: Oh, cute. How did your family come to settle in Kentucky, or more specifically Louisville, Kentucky?

WEINBERG: Well, my, uh--my grandfather's brother--one of his brothers, Abe, was 00:07:00the oldest one--uh, Abe came, um, before anybody else out of Warsaw. Uh, he was up in Indiana for a while, uh, and then came to Louisville. And he was in essence the sponsor of my dad, uh, coming over--or my grandfather coming over, and then my dad. My grandfather came without the family, initially. Uh, he came, uh, in 19, uh, 21, and left everybody else in Warsaw. (laughs) Uh, my father, who was the oldest of the children, came two years later, uh, in 19, uh, 20, uh, 3, and the rest of the family didn't come until the next year, 1924. And that was four additional, uh, siblings and my grandmother.

CRANE: Why did they come here?

WEINBERG: Why did they come to the United States or why did they come to Louisville?

CRANE: No, why did they come to Kentucky? Or Louisville?

WEINBERG: Well, again, my, uh, my grandfather'd come first because he was sponsored by his older brother who came here and, uh, found him a, a place to work. And then, uh, then the rest followed.

CRANE: And do you know--

WEINBERG: --my dad came by himself from Warsaw at age sixteen--

CRANE: Oh. What were their occupations of your parents?

WEINBERG: Uh, my parents--my dad was a, a, uh, kosher butcher, uh, in town. And my mother was a, uh, um, a housewife who helped in the store quite a bit. Um, but, uh, before he started--before he opened his kosher butcher, he actually worked for Clare Meat, uh, Products, which was not a kosher shop. Uh, but it was with Clare, and then he, uh, opened his own. Uh, and he opened it with, uh, 00:09:00as a partnership with my uncle by marriage, uh, my mother's sister's husband, Abe Hoffman. Uh, they opened as partners. And that didn't last too long, for whatever reason. Uh, probably because it's not a good idea to go into business with friends or relatives. But, uh, he then opened his own kosher meat market, uh, much further east, where the Jewish population was moving. My dad's meat market was right in the middle of what I would call the shtetl, on Preston Street, uh, because just about every store along Preston, uh, was a, was a Jewish market of some sort or another.

CRANE: Do you remember Preston Street when your dad had a butcher--

WEINBERG: --uh, I do--

CRANE: --shop?

WEINBERG: I do.

CRANE: What was it like?

WEINBERG: What was the butcher shop like, or what was Preston like?

CRANE: Both.

WEINBERG: Uh, well, the--

CRANE: --what do you remember about it?--

WEINBERG: (laughs) Uh, don't forget, my--my dad died when I was thirteen. Uh, so I, uh, I only have some memories between probably five and thirteen. Uh, but it--it was, uh, pe--a lot of people talking Yiddish or Hebrew down the street. Uh, the butcher shop itself, uh, my dad would go in, a lot of times at four o'clock in the morning, uh, get orders together that--for delivery that day, uh, and then come home for breakfast and have breakfast with us and then go back to the shop. Um, but--I mean, there was every merchant along Preston, uh, there were delis, there were, uh, shoe shops, there were five-and-ten stores, there were, uh, the shochet, who actually kosher slaughtered the chickens on Preston for you while you were in the shop. Um, it was, uh--it was all right there. 00:11:00Bakeries. Um, Melita's Bakery. Um, New York--uh, the New York Delicatessen, which was owned by Sh-- uh, Mike Sherman. Uh, there were actually a couple of other butcher shops around that time. Schramm's (??). Uh, Fuchs's (??) had maybe had just closed. Um, and there were a few--uh, there were a few others, uh, you know, Wittenbaum's, uh, was right along there. Golde's Shoes. Um--

CRANE: I know that I grew up knowing that all the shoe str--shoe shops in Louisville were on Preston Street for some reason.

WEINBERG: They--(Crane laughs)--they were on Preston Street. I--I probably got another listing here of a number of 'em, uh, that were on, uh--yeah. Wittenbaum Shoes. Schlossberg's. Uh, Golde's. Strasberg's. Goldy's. Pozitzer's. All 00:12:00Jewish-owned shoe stores along Preston Street.

UNKNOWN: What section of Preston Street was that?

WEINBERG: Uh, generally between, uh, Market or Jefferson and Broadway. Maybe a block before Broadway, uh, north of Broadway.

CRANE: Did you ever witness the slaughtering of one of those chickens?

WEINBERG: I did. (laughs)

CRANE: Will you just sort of share your feeling--(Weinberg laughs)--about it, or--(laughs)--what you remember?

WEINBERG: I'll tell you some--I, I, I never saw the slaughter of a, of a cow, which is also ritually slaughtered for Jewish, uh, kosher butchers. Uh, but my--I can remember going down to the stock yards with my dad, where he would pick out the cow that was gonna be slaughtered, and it would be taken over to, uh, um--gosh, what was the name of that? Um, Dawson-Spatz, uh, slaughterhouse, 00:13:00which was just down the street, and then they would ritually slaughter that cow for, uh, kosher, uh, butcher. Uh, the chickens, I can remember going down--it was a little shop. It was--I thought it was pretty dirty-lookin'. Uh, and it was a little scary at the time. They would just--you know, just cut that head off, and, uh, then there was your chicken. (laughs)

CRANE: Where did the meat--um, you mentioned that the meat came from, um, that slaughterhouse or, you know, that--where you picked out the cows. Um, where did the chickens come from?

WEINBERG: I only knew that they were on Preston Street. I mean, they were live on Preston Street in the back of that, uh, sh--uh--you know, the shochet's, um, house.

CRANE: You mean the chickens were.

WEINBERG: The chickens were, yeah.

CRANE: Whoa. Okay.

WEINBERG: Yeah, you could go in and pick out your chicken, they'd slaughter it right there for you. Take home your chicken, fresh. (laughs)

CRANE: Did they pluck the little feathers out, or--

WEINBERG: Uh, they could, or you could do it yourself. (laughs)

CRANE: Uh, what happened to the business after your father passed away?

WEINBERG: Uh, when my father passed away, uh, there was somebody in there named Sam, uh, Shiffman (??), uh, who, I guess, bought it. Uh, he opened it for--kept it open for a while, and then that shop moved, uh, actually out on to the Bardstown Road area, which, again, was shifting towards where the Jewish community was moving. Uh, Hy Spickel (??) had a place out there, uh, with Shiffman, for a while. Um, Abe Hoffman, who had been my, uh, my uncle, my dad's brother-in-law, had a--that place called Abe--Abe's Meat--Abe's Kosher Meats. Uh, so those were all along Bardstown Road--Taylorsville Road, at that time.

CRANE: Is that where Butchertown is?

WEINBERG: No. (laughs)

CRANE: It doesn't have anything to do--

WEINBERG: --no--

CRANE: --with Butcher--

WEINBERG: --not even close--

CRANE: Okay. (Weinberg laughs) Um, did your family keep kosher?

WEINBERG: Yes. Uh, my grandparents kept kosher. My, uh, my mom and dad kept kosher. Uh, I mean, we kept kosher in the home. Kept kosher outside the home, while my parents were alive. When my parents passed away, uh, we moved in with, uh, an aunt, my dad's sister, and her husband. Uh, Jack Goldberg and Miriam Goldberg. Uh, they weren't quite as religious. Uh, they did keep a kosher home, but not outside the home so much. Um, but yeah. We kept, we kept kosher.

CRANE: How old was--how old were you when your mother passed away?

WEINBERG: Ten.

CRANE: Oh, wow. So she passed away before your dad.

WEINBERG: She had passed away three years before my dad.

CRANE: That must've been tough. Um, how easy is it to keep kosher in Louisville, now?

WEINBERG: Today or then? (laughs)

CRANE: Either one.

WEINBERG: It's--it's not as easy as it was, uh, when you had several kosher butcher shops, and you had sever--you know, a few restaurants that were kosher restaurants. You don't have any kosher restaurants today. Uh, you can buy kosher meat at Kroger's if you go to the Kroger on Hikes Lane. They have a fresh kosher meat section. Uh, so if you want to buy kosher meat, you can. Uh, the selection is not great, and they don't necessarily cut it, uh, to your specifications. If you want to, uh--you know, a lot of times we will bring meat in from Chicago. I have a niece up there. Uh, so if we're visiting there or she's coming here, she'll bring us meat occasionally. Uh, Cincinnati has kosher 00:17:00meat market that we can get kosher meat from. You can get it from St. Louis, you can get it from, uh, Atlanta. But, uh--

CRANE: You said there were kosher restaurants when you were growin' up?

WEINBERG: Uh, there were. Uh, and if they weren't kosher, they were kosher-style. But, uh, uh, there were a couple of kosher restaurants. Um--(sighs)--trying to think of the name of those, uh--(pause) (sighs)--Charlie Simon, I think, kept a, uh, kosher, uh, delicatessen. Um, there was, uh, Sherman's, which was kosher-style. Had kosher meat, they didn't keep a kosher, uh, restaurant particularly. Around the Clock, uh, was on Bardstown Road, uh, and would keep kosher-style, uh, with some kosher meat, but not totally a kosher 00:18:00restaurant. Um, guy named Kaplan owned that, uh, um, Around the Clock. Um--

CRANE: You know, David, when I was doing some of the research for this interview, I kept coming across the phrase "Vaad Hakashruth"?

WEINBERG: Corre--all right.

CRANE: Um, and I know it has something to do with keeping kosher in Louisville. Um, but what can you tell me about this? (both laugh)

WEINBERG: Well, the Vaad is, uh, one that supervises and would give a--a Orthodox union approval of, of the kosher meat. Uh, to do that they would come in periodically just to make sure that you were keeping all the laws of kashrut. Uh, and they would give it their approval, and they'd get paid for that. (laughs) Uh, so, uh, in every, every piece of meat you bought, uh, you were paying the co--uh, the Vaad as well.

CRANE: So is this a--a person, a project, a program? It--

WEINBERG: Uh, it's a person. It's a group. Uh, the Vaad has got a--its own board here, today, uh, that will approve or not approve of various products in town. Uh, it's, uh, com--composed of those of the Orthodox--and some Conservative, I think, are on there as well.

CRANE: Hmm. Uh, when you were growin' up, where did you go to school?

WEINBERG: Well, I went to Belknap Elementary. Uh, you know, our neighborhoods back then were much different than they are today. We were--when we went to school, we went to school in public schools with our, uh, friends and neighbors, and we, a lot of the Jewish community lived together in the same neighborhoods. I lived on Village Drive. Uh, Village Drive was like a little ghetto, you know. 00:20:00Uh, it had one Jewish home, if no--if, if it wasn't Jewish, it was Catholic, but, um, uh, it was a very Jewish neighborhood. So we went to Belknap, uh, Elementary. Then I went to Seneca High. Uh, actually, I went to Highland Junior High for a year in, before my dad died, and then, uh--then I went to Seneca High.

CRANE: I'm assuming that, that once your parents passed away you moved to a different location?

WEINBERG: Moved to a different location, in Meadowview Estates with my, uh, Aunt Miriam Weinberg Goldberg, Jack Goldberg.

CRANE: Um--

WEINBERG: --and they had, they had one adopted daughter, Renee--

CRANE: --um, is she still, um, around?

WEINBERG: Renee?

CRANE: Um-hm.

WEINBERG: Renee is around, and she lives in, uh, Florida.

CRANE: 'Cause she, I guess, sort of became your sister, of sorts.

WEINBERG: Uh, yeah. Very much so.

CRANE: Um, you said you lived in a Jewish community, but what was the 00:21:00non-Jewish community's reaction to you being Jewish? Or your Jewishness? When you were growing up?

WEINBERG: Uh, again, the neighborhood and the schools were very Jewish. Uh, Seneca was very Jewish. Um, Seneca had a big Jewish population. They had a little black population, 'cause they drew from Newburg. The Jews and the blacks got along very well. Uh, we never had a problem. I--I cannot think of any time when I was growing up that I ran into any anti-Semitism.

CRANE: When you say "very Jewish," what do you mean?

WEINBERG: I'd say, uh, close to a third of the school was Jewish.

CRANE: Oh, wow.

WEINBERG: Um, you know, we--you were in, uh--you either went to Atherton, which was very Jewish and was in the Highlands, or you went to Seneca. And you might have gone, a few, to Wagner. But you were in basically those three schools.

CRANE: How would you describe your parents' relationship to Judaism?

WEINBERG: Their relationship to Judaism?

CRANE: Um-hm.

WEINBERG: Very Jewish. Um, again, the--the house was kosher--

[Pause in recording.]

WEINBERG: --uh, on Shabbat. Uh--

CRANE: Okay.

[Pause in recording.]

CRANE: Well, we had a teeny little break here, but, um, let's go back to the question, how would you describe your parents' relationship to Judaism?

WEINBERG: Uh, well, it--they were Orthodox. Uh, my grandparents were Orthodox; my fam--my parents were Orthodox. Um, we didn't go out to eat until it was kosher or unless it was, uh, milchig. Uh, we went to Stan's Fish Market, who would, uh, prepare fish, uh, uh, that's probably the only fish place we went, Stan's Fish Market. Uh, we would go to Around the Clock on Bardstown Road. And my dad knew Mr. Kaplan, and he would make sure that whatever was served was okay. (laughs) Uh, we went there for milkshakes a lot, and that was okay. 00:23:00Although my dad --I didn't eat a lot of eggs or protein, so he would have 'em put a raw egg in my milkshake so that I would get this protein from the, from the egg. (laughs)

CRANE: Did you know it was in there?

WEINBERG: Yeah, I knew. But it, the milkshake was okay. (laughs)

CRANE: Enough chocolate changes anything.

WEINBERG: That's right.

CRANE: Um, so what about the, um, holidays? What was Shabbat like? What were--how did you celebrate holidays?

WEINBERG: Well, on Shabbat--again, we were in--by the time I was three years old, we were in the East End, on Village Drive. Uh, so we didn't go to Keneseth downtown unless it was a special day, a special holiday. On Shabbat, uh, Four Courts was close by. It was the, uh, home they built for Jewish elderly. And they had a chapel there. And they would go, uh--a number of the Jewish 00:24:00community in that area would go there and be lay-led, basically. But they were all--they were all--knew what they were doing. (laughs) They could all daven. They could all lain Torah. Uh, so that wasn't an issue. Um, and that's where we would walk to. And we had a little dog that would follow us over there. And she would stay at that door for the four hours. I mean, services started at eight o'clock in the morning; they didn't end till twelve o'clock. And that dog would sit at--(laughs)--that doorstep until we came out. Um--(clears throat)--and so that's what we did on Shabbat. And then we went home, and he--we didn't watch, uh, television. I might have gone out--(Crane sneezes)--and played, uh, but we didn't do, uh--you know, we didn't watch television or work. Uh, on special occasions, and especially the 00:25:00holidays--(clears throat)--were very special. Uh, we would go to my da--my grandparents lived a block away from the synagogue, and the whole family would just land there. Uh, and when I say the whole family, there were five siblings and all their children. Uh, there were, uh, ten, ten grandchildren of his. So everybody was there in this little--what I thought at the time was a big house, but I went back to see it not too terribly long ago, and it was pretty small. I don't know how we all got in there, and certainly I don't know how everybody slept in there. Uh, but they all did, except for us. (laughs) Because my dad was the oldest child, we stayed at the hotel on, uh, generally the Henry Clay that was on Third Street, not too many blocks away. And we would stay there. But the rest of the family would stay at, uh, my grandparents' house. And 00:26:00that's where you would--then you would go to shul and you would come back there, and you would have your, uh, your meals and, uh, and all. So it was a--it was a very close family--(laughs)--very close, at times. Uh, my grandfather's house, I, I mean, probably had--haven't gotten into--my, my grandmother was blind, uh, from the time--

CRANE: --on your father's side?--

WEINBERG: On my father's side. She was probably a four-foot little old lady, uh, who was totally blind. Uh, she was blind, uh, several years before I was born, so I never knew her to ha--be sighted. Um--(clears throat)--but she, um--she could do anything. I mean, she was so remarkable. She--you know, she might--she was cooking, and she'd say, "Would you get me three cubes of sugar out of the pantry?", and I'd say, "I can't find it," and she'd say, "Oh, it's on the third shelf in the back on the left-hand side." And there it would be. So, I mean, it was not a problem. She would walk herself over to the synagogue, uh, 00:27:00you know, with a walking stick. And, um, there was just nothing this little lady couldn't do. Uh--

CRANE: And what was her name?

WEINBERG: Sarah.

CRANE: Weinberg.

WEINBERG: Weinberg.

CRANE: And is this the house you told me a story about Sam Meyers? Is this the same house?

WEINBERG: It is the same house. Sam Meyers, who many people may know of, is the Sam Meyers tuxedos and clothing chain, uh, that he started. Uh, I didn't find out until just la--within the last year. We were talking about Passover in an email with some relatives, and, um, they sent a picture of the, the family that got together. And so somebody said, "Well, who's the old man that's in the picture?" And I can remember the old man who lived at this house in a room in the house. And--just knew him as Mr. Meyers, the old man Meyers. Um, only to 00:28:00find out that this really wasn't my grandfather's house. (laughs) This was Mr. Meyers's house! (laughs) And they had an agreement in his old, you know, in his elderly years, that my grandparents would take care of him, and--till he passed on, and then the house would be theirs. And I don't think any--I didn't--I certainly didn't know that until just recently.

CRANE: Wow. (Weinberg clears throat) Great story. Um--(Weinberg coughs)--you said that you went to Keneseth--is it Keneseth Israel?

WEINBERG: Keneseth Israel.

CRANE: As a child?

WEINBERG: Um-hm.

CRANE: Um, what can you share about, um, that congregation--

WEINBERG: --uh--

CRANE: --growing up as a child?

WEINBERG: Uh, well, as a child it was a very Orthodox congregation. And, um--I just want to find out some dates here. Um, it, uh--it was an Orthodox 00:29:00congregation. Uh, it was actually the merger of two congregations, Agudath Achim and, um, Kol--uh, I, I've got it, I've got it here somewhere, I just have to look it up for you real quick. Uh, it was the merger of two Orthodox congregations. And, uh, it was Orthodox. Women sat in the balcony over the, uh, over the main sanctuary, uh, 'cause men and women didn't sit together. Uh, and in 1951, uh, the women decided they didn't like that arrangement so much. (laughs) So there was a sit-in. And they all just came down from the balcony and decided they were gonna sit in the main chapel. And that didn't go over so 00:30:00well with a lot of the Orthodox men, and, um, and they actually ended up calling the police--(laughs)--to have 'em all removed. (laughs) And, uh, but that was the beginning of the mixed congregation. Uh, they ultimately came to a compromise, and they said, "Okay, you can sit downstairs. The women will sit on the right-hand, uh, section of the, of the synagogue. The Orthodox men who want to be separate will sit on the left-hand side. And those who want to sit together, you will sit in the middle section." And so that's sort of like the mechitza or the--if you wanted to sit on separate seating, you did. Um--

CRANE: So who called the police? The men?

WEINBERG: Beth, Beth, Beth Hamedrash Ha--Hagadol, uh, was the name of the other synagogue that merged to, to form Keneseth. That happened in 1929.

CRANE: Okay. So there were two Orthodox synagogues that joined for--

WEINBERG: --right--

CRANE: --Keneseth, right?

WEINBERG: Right. And I, and I got that wrong. That is B'nai Jacob and Beth 00:31:00Hamedrash Hagadol.

CRANE: Okay. Became Keneseth Israel.

WEINBERG: Became Keneseth Israel.

CRANE: Okay. And you said the--did the men call the police?

WEINBERG: The men called the police.

CRANE: And they came.

WEINBERG: And they came, and they--(laughs)--removed 'em.

CRANE: Okay. Just wanted to make sure I understood that.

WEINBERG: Yeah. You got it right.

CRANE: Uh--

WEINBERG: So that was the beginning, really, of Keneseth going from an Orthodox synagogue to what is today, uh, actually a Conservative synagogue. And that didn't happen overnight either. That, uh, in about 1990, uh, it became an egalitarian type of synagogue, where women could participate. Women really couldn't participate in the service, uh, until 1990. Um, and when I say "participate," they could certainly be in the congregation and pray, but they couldn't lead the service. Because, again, in the Orthodox congregations, men and women were separate. Uh, and you had separate roles, really. Um, but that 00:32:00started to evaporate, and in, uh, 1994, uh, we became a Conservative synagogue. And that, uh--that was a, you know, a battle. I mean, a lot of people left because it had become egalitarian and/or Conservative. And, um--and others remained. And now it's a, a pretty good--you know, one of the two Conservative congregations in town.

CRANE: What was your family's connection to the synagogue?

WEINBERG: Close. I mean, my grandfather was a gabbai. I don't know if you know what a gabbai is.

CRANE: I do.

WEINBERG: A gabbai is in charge of--(laughs)--of, of maintaining order. (laughs) So I'm not sure, maybe he's the one who called the police to get the women out, but, uh, uh, maintains order, gives the, uh, honors out. Uh, and he did that for a long time. Uh, you know, when they, when they blow the shofar on 00:33:00the holidays, uh, he would be the one to, to call out the, uh, shofar, "Tekiah." Uh, and I can still hear that today when somebody does that. Um, and my dad, again, was a--was involved. He actually belonged to all the congregations, because he was the kosher butcher. (laughs) Um, so he had an affiliation with all of 'em. But we were Keneseth members.

CRANE: A due-paying affiliation or an honorarium?

WEINBERG: No, the--a dues-paying, but affiliate, uh, co--uh, as a, um--not as a full-paying member--(laughs)--I don't think.

CRANE: Wow. What was the differ--or how did your life change as far as being Jewish, um, and your religious practices change from your younger years, with 00:34:00your parents being more Orthodox, then your aunt and uncle being less--

WEINBERG: --yeah--

CRANE: --Orthodox?

WEINBERG: --well, they--again, they kept a kosher home at my aunt and uncle's. Uh, we would go out to eat. And I was beginning to go out to eat at that point, although I maintained a modified kosher, I call it. Uh, maybe it's my own kosher. Uh, where I would eat meat out, but I wouldn't mix milk and meat, and I wouldn't eat, uh, you know, shellfish, seafood, uh, type things that were forbidden. Um, but I would eat out. Uh, and I still do that. Uh, but I still don't mix milk and meat, and I still don't eat certain fish. So, um, not much has changed since then. I actually maintained doing that while I was at the university. Uh, probably a lot of people don't remember, there, on Rose Street, there was a huge walk-in freezer where you could rent, uh, drawers or lockers, 00:35:00uh, and I would store meat there. Uh, and then periodically I'd go down, and you walk into this lo--you wear this big, uh, Alaskan coat that they had hanging on a hook. You walk into this walk-in freezer, used your key to open up the locker, and take your meat out or put meat in. And I would keep that and take it home, uh, to the apartments that I lived in and maintained, uh, eating kosher there.

CRANE: Where was this?

WEINBERG: On Rose. It was near where the, uh--(clears throat)--near where the hospital is now. Um, there was a motel on that side of the street. Um, I don't--

CRANE: --and a football field--

WEINBERG: I don't remember the football field. Um, but there was a motel and there was a big--big freezer walk-in area that you could rent lockers.

CRANE: Hmm. Um, what were your experience with religious school and Hebrew school?

WEINBERG: Well, you know, everything--if you weren't in school and if you weren't playing in the yard, you were at the Jewish Community Center. Uh, it became a big part of everybody's life from the time you were playing Little League until you got out of high school and, and after. But, uh, the Hebrew school, there was a community Hebrew school by the time I was going to Hebrew school. At one time they--each congregation had their own Hebrew, uh, program. And, uh, then they had a cheder that, downtown, that was a, more than one synagogue. And all--when the center got built in the 1950s, uh, the Hebrew school--the community Hebrew school went down to the Jewish Community Center. Which was closer to where I lived. Um--(clears throat)--so that's where we had Hebrew. And after school either, uh, generally, at that time, a taxi would pick 00:37:00you up at Belknap School and take you to the center, and maybe if you were lucky you could stop and get something to eat along the way. The taxi driver would stop for you and you could get a little somethin'. Uh, and then we'd go to Hebrew at the center on, uh, I think it was Monday and Wednesdays, uh, after school.

CRANE: There were Reformed, Conservative, and still Orthodox congregations while you were growing up. I'm assuming that the, the skill level for--or the requirements for a bar or bat mitzvah, uh, were different from--in the different congregations. But did they--were they all the same because they all went to the community center?

WEINBERG: Well, the Reform weren't having bar or bat mitzvahs at that time. Um--

CRANE: --oh, okay--

WEINBERG: --if they did, it wasn't much. Uh, the Conservative and the Orthodox, uh, learned their Hebrew there. And you took your bar mitzvah lessons when you were maybe 12 or thereabouts. Uh, you would take your bar mitzvah lessons, uh, from the cantor at the synagogue. And I can remember--(laughs)--on Village Drive there was a bus line, and I would carry a Webcor tape recorder. It was a reel-to-reel recorder that probably weighed as much as I did. It was a good forty or fifty pounds, I think. And I would lug that on a transit line to downtown and walk a block over to the synagogue, carrying--(laughs)--that tape recorder. And that's how I learned my bar mitzvah from Cantor Elias. And if you couldn't afford one of those Webcor tape recorders, uh, you, um, he would 00:39:00make--he would, he would, uh, record a record for you that you could study from. One of those big, uh--I forgot what they called 'em now. Say, uh, thirty-two--what is it, thirty-two or thirty-three speed, uh, records? They were this, they were this big.

CRANE: The big thick one. Yeah.

WEINBERG: Uh, and that's how you learned your bar mitzvah. And then you'd go in, the cantor would--you know, you'd try to do what you were supposed to do, and he'd say, "No, you're not doing it right, and you're not gonna be bar mitzvahed." But, you know, everybody was. (laughs)

CRANE: Share any stories that stand out in your memory during the years that you were growing up Jewish in Louisville.

WEINBERG: Well, certainly the Jewish Community Center was the center of everybody's life, like I said. Um, if it wasn't Little League, uh, it was, um, you know, by the time you got into high school there were high school clubs. Uh, they were Jewish clubs. They were probably about thirty, uh, thirty, 00:40:00thirty-five, in each chapter. There were twelve chapters. Uh, six boys chapters and six girls chapters. Uh, of the boys, three of those were AZA [Aleph Zadik Aleph]-affiliated. Um, which is a national, um, affiliation which had regional conventions and national conventions. Uh, some of 'em were local. Um, Ral AZA was one. Resnick AZA, Mu Sigma. Um, Vincent AZA. Condores. Uh, Mu Sigma--did I say Mu Sigma? Uh, and, uh, the girls had six chapters as well. Uh, Jolson--two of 'em were BBG [B'nai B'rith Girls] chapters comparable to the AZA but for the girls. Uh, Jolson and Brandeis BBG. Uh, they had, uh--that was 00:41:00Mu--um, Modern Femmes, GK, Amitié, um--

CRANE: And what took place in all of these--

WEINBERG: --oh--

CRANE: --clubs or organizations or--

WEINBERG: --it was--it was like being part of a fraternity. Uh, you would meet weekly. Uh, you would participate in sports at the center. Uh, you competed against each other. Um, there was always basketball, football, softball, that you, uh--you competed. Um, they were run in a parliamentary fashion, so you learned a little bit about parliamentary procedure. You had your own, uh, treasurer, so you had some bookkeeping, and, you know, you ran for office. I think Jerry Abramson, uh, who became, uh, mayor of Louisville for, uh, years--they call him mayor for life--and, uh, he was mayor. He's been a lieutenant governor, uh, of Kentucky. Uh, he is currently at the White House, 00:42:00in the West Wing, as a liaison between the, uh, Oval Office and municipalities throughout the country. Uh, and he would tell you he got his start there. Um, he, uh--we had two different teen boards. One was called a teenage board and one was called the club council board. The club councils were consisted of representation of the different clubs. The teenage board was supposed to be representative of all teenagers at the center, whether you were part of the club system or not. He was the president of that teenage board when I was president of the club council. And I always used to say, "Well, you might be president of the teenage board, but club council really has the clout, because three hundred of these kids belong to the club, to, uh, the clubs." And there weren't many kids that weren't affiliated with clubs at that time. Uh, so we were over at 00:43:00the center probably just about every day. During the summer, you were there for the pool, the tennis, uh, just to, to be with other kids. Uh, it was the hangout. Um, and, um, so that probably, as a child growing up, that's probably left the biggest impression. Um--

CRANE: How many kids were there?

WEINBERG: In clubs? About three hundred-plus, in the clubs. Uh, I don't know how many children there were in that age group, but, uh, there were, you know, maybe--maybe 350, 400. I don't know. It was a big group.

CRANE: In your age group?

WEINBERG: Yeah. Well, when I say "age group," three years of high school. These were all--the clubs then were tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grade. Um, there were also some junior high clubs you could be in before that, in the eighth and ninth grade. Maybe seventh, eight, and ninth. Uh, now you don't have--uh, the, there's not as many clubs over there today. There may be a 00:44:00couple, uh, and they're the, uh, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth, uh, to be in the AZA chapters.

CRANE: In doing some research, I noticed that there have been and still are a lot of Weinbergs in Louisville. So how were you or are you related to other Jewish families in Louisville? Or in Kentucky, for that matter?

WEINBERG: Well, I'm not related to a lot of Weinbergs here. Uh, my dad had a brother, Morris Weinberg. Uh, he has, uh--he had, uh, uh, four, four kids. Uh, Mendel, uh, Faye, Perry, and Harris. Um, Harris was a year--Mendel was my age, Harris was a year younger than me, Faye was the next down the line, and Perry 00:45:00was younger than that. Uh, on the Berman side, I'm related to a lot of Bermans. Uh--

CRANE: And the Bermans are your mother's--

WEINBERG: My mother's side.

CRANE: Okay.

WEINBERG: Uh, on my mother's side, uh, again, she had, uh, four other siblings. Uh, they had, uh, seven kids. So I had seven first cousins on the Berman side. Actually I had ten on the Weinberg side. Uh, but the Berman side, if you go down the, uh, the family tree there, I have a cousin who has a family tree history, uh, that goes back to the 1700s, uh, of which he's got about fifteen hundred names on there that are Berman-related, uh, as it spreads out. Uh, my grandfather, Harry Berman, was not the largest segment of that. (laughs) Uh, but there's a lot of, lot of Bermans. They--they used to have family picnics 00:46:00every few years. Now they may have 'em every five or ten years, uh, but we still have a big family picnic, and you find out people that you never knew were Bermans are Bermans.

CRANE: And they go back to the 1700s in Kentucky?

WEINBERG: Nah, nah. I didn't say in Kentucky.

CRANE: Oh. Okay.

WEINBERG: (laughs) Uh, but they went back a long way. Uh, here's, uh--they, they all come from, uh, Yittzhak Leib Berman, from 1786. Uh, and he, and--Yitzhak Leib was my grandfather's great-great grandfather.

CRANE: Okay. So your--

WEINBERG: --that's my great-great-great--

CRANE: Yeah.

WEINBERG: (laughs) Three greats.

CRANE: Gotcha. Okay. Um--(pause)--what did your family teach you about 00:47:00Judaism, and how has what you learned from them impacted your life?

WEINBERG: Well, I mean, I, I have followed the tradition of Judaism, uh, as a traditional Conservative. (laughs) Um, certainly not Orthodox, uh, although I still keep a lot of that tradition. Uh, uh, my kids do. My son is currently the president of Keneseth. Uh, my daughter in Connecticut, uh, is very active in their Conservative synagogue. Uh, and their kids are all active. So I think, uh, uh, we've kept a connection to our, our religion and our tradition. Um, and it's a good feeling. You know, I, I, uh, I try to--I don't get to 00:48:00synagogue as often as I'd like or as I should, um--I'm there for the holidays, uh, and there whenever there's a yahrzeit or a yizkor. Uh, as a memorial to my parents. Uh, but I try to go once a week in the morning, uh, on a Thursday morning, to help make a minyan, because you need ten--ten Jews--it used to be ten men. Now it can be ten men-slash-women to make a minyan, uh, so that you can say certain prayers as a, a, uh, community service. Uh, and there're certain things you can't do if you don't have that minyan, uh, one of 'em being saying a Mourner's Kaddish. Uh, so I try to be there for those who, who need ten people. Uh, that's probably a direct result of the fact that I needed ten 00:49:00of--you know, when I was younger. Sometimes you'd had 'em and sometimes you didn't, but I thought it was necessary to try to participate and help make that.

CRANE: What's it like having your son Scott as president of your synagogue?

WEINBERG: Well, he's president and I'm treasurer. And I never would have been treasurer if he wasn't, hadn't been president, but I couldn't turn him down. (Crane laughs) Uh, and, uh--and he always did want to be the boss. (laughs) So, uh, so now he has a chance. Uh, it, it's good. I mean, I'm glad that he has that feeling and that desire, uh, to make that commitment to the synagogue. And it is a commitment, 'cause it's never an ending thing. It's, it's always something coming up.

CRANE: How big is the congregation?

WEINBERG: (sighs) The congregation is probably about 250 member units. Uh, so 00:50:00some of those are married, some of 'em have kids, some of 'em are single. Um, it's--I, you know, I--there's probably close to six hundred, seven hundred, maybe, total, including children.

CRANE: Before we get into your college and your adult life, is there anything else unique we should know about your family background or your childhood years that you'd like to share?

WEINBERG: Uh--(pause)--well, I didn't tell you how I met my wife.

CRANE: I'm--(Weinberg laughs)--I think that's on here, but go ahead and tell me now.

WEINBERG: Okay. No, go ahead.

CRANE: Nope, let's do that now. How did you--

WEINBERG: --you know--

CRANE: You didn't meet your wife until after you finished college.

WEINBERG: Until after I--

CRANE: --so--

WEINBERG: --finished college, that's right.

CRANE: --let's go through college and--

WEINBERG: --all right, let's--

CRANE: --then we can do that.

WEINBERG: Uh, go back to high school again. I can remember goin'--the synagogues were all concentrated downtown when I was growing up. They've all 00:51:00moved east since then. They used to call 'em by their name of their street, even though they had a congregational name. Um, and just (??) Adath Jeshurun would be called Brook Street. Uh, Third Street, uh, was Adath Israel. Uh, you know, but they were on Brook. They were on First. They were on Second. They were on Third. And that's the way you knew 'em. And there was a bowling alley in between us, on Brook Street. Well, I can remember on the High Holidays or any of the holidays, especially the ones that occurred in the early fall--what was going on in the early fall? There was the World Series. So people would leave for a while to go down to the bowling alley so they could find out what was happening in the World Series. Or if there was a football game going on--(laughs)--they'd go out and listen to their radios or go down and see what they could find out about the ballgame during those holidays. Uh, so you could 00:52:00always--I could always remember some people just leaving to go out and sit in their car to listen to the radio to see what was goin' on, uh, in those ballgames. I, I sort of miss that a little bit, that these World Series are played so late in the year now, I can't--you know, in November, late October, early November, because probably one of my favorite memories is going to high school when they played in the middle of the afternoon, havin' a transistor radio with you that you would plug in to your ears, see what was going on, and maybe sometimes a teacher would turn a ballgame on on the television for you. But you don't have that anymore. (laughs)

CRANE: Everybody has their own phone to watch it.

WEINBERG: That's right. Yeah, they're not during the day. They do it at night now. (laughs)

CRANE: I know that you attended the University of Kentucky. What years were you there and why did you choose UK [University of Kentucky]?

WEINBERG: Well, uh, I was there from '64 to '68, and I would say it was late '68, not May of '68, 'cause I had deferred an additional semester 00:53:00because--(clears throat)--you know, the Vietnam War was goin' on then. And they were giving student deferments to fulltime students, so I thought, "Well, why not take an extra semester and be a student rather than go over to Vietnam?" Uh, but why did I go to Kentucky? My sister went to Kentucky before I did, uh, five years before I did. So I think there was some connection there. I can always remember my cousins listening to the U of K ballgames on the radio, whether they be football or basketball. (clears throat) And I just became a Kentucky fan. I could've gone to a number of universities when I was graduating, but it was pretty cheap for an in-state student to go to University of Kentucky. Um, when I think about what I pay for my children to go to the university when they--well, one went to, uh, uh, Indiana. Uh, and, uh--they 00:54:00were--I mean, they were thirty, forty, fifty thousand dollars a year. I paid $120 a semester tuition to go to the University of Kentucky--$120. Uh, when it went up to 125, there was protests. (laughs) Uh, but, uh--you know, Scott went to Emory. It was a private university. That was expensive. Uh, I don't know what it's gonna cost my grandchildren to go. But it's just, uh, just phenomenal. Uh, so I decided I--you know, why spend that money, uh, to go somewhere else when I could go for $120 a semester? That didn't include housing and food. Housing was costing more than, than tuition was. But, you know, you found somebody to share that expense with. (laughs)

CRANE: What did you study while you were there?

WEINBERG: Oh my gosh. Uh, I was--well, I--my first year--my first semester of 00:55:00my first year I was in Haggin Hall. Um, that was generally where the boys' freshman dorm--where most of us went. Uh, there was Donovan also, which was an older one, but Haggin was the newer one. Uh, so that's where I was my first semester. Um, I roomed with a guy, uh, there that, uh--his name was Kurt. He--(laughs)--Kurt was fro--and you didn't select your roommate then; they just gave you somebody--uh, Kurt was from Fulton County, Kentucky. Um, he would claim that Fulton County was the banana capital of the world. Uh, and if you look it up today, it will tell you that Fulton County was the banana capital of the world! (laughs) And I would say, "Well, how can that be? They don't grow bananas in Fulton County, Kentucky." But 70 percent of all bananas that came to 00:56:00the United States went through Fulton County. Um, and so--uh, he, he probably had never met a Jew before. He was--I mean, if you know where Fulton County is, it's in far western southern part of the state. Uh, never met a Jew. Probably thought we had horns at that time. Um, he certainly didn't like the smell of kosher salami that I would hang in the room. (laughs) Uh, but, uh, but we got along fine. Uh, the second semester they didn't have enough room for everybody in the dorms, so they didn't require you to stay in the dorm. And so I moved out and went into a apartment. Um, I went in with Howard Passamaneck, who was a friend of mine from Louisville. We had been high school friends, uh, to, uh, Lyndhurst. Uh, Lyndhurst had an apartment that they had just put up. It was 00:57:00brand new at that time. It's fifty years old today. But, uh, it's, uh, it was new. Um, it was comfortable. It was an efficiency apartment. And Howard and I stayed there. Uh, after that, Howard and I moved to Lowry Lane, off of, uh, Nicholasville Road. Uh, that's where the shopping center is out there. Um, the--what, what's the name of that--I can't remember the name of the shopping center. Lowry La--no--

CRANE: It's sti--it was still there. I think they just tore it down recently.

WEINBERG: Anyway. Lynd--Lyndhurst, Howard and I, again, were there. We didn't stay--we--we moved around because we didn't want to pay the rent for the summer, or--(clears throat)--so we, we were in different places. (laughs) Uh, after that we were on, uh, Lowry Lane. Again, uh, that's off of, uh, Nicholasville. Um, 00:58:00we were on Pinewood Place, which was off of the Belt--off of, uh, New Circle Road. Uh, there used to be a hotel on that corner, and it was--I think the name of it was the Continental.

CRANE: Continental Inn.

WEINBERG: The Continental Inn. And it was--it was sort of interesting, because it was sort of a tropical--it had a tropical ambience about it, and that was sort of different for that day and age. An atrium or whatever. Uh, but this apartment was right behind that. Um, we were in--(laughs)--Aylesford. Uh, Howard had already--had left the university, and I was in with a guy named Moon Mullins. Was not Jewish.

CRANE: I remember him.

WEINBERG: Uh, Moon Mullins. Um, learned quite a lesson during that. Uh, one is, uh, my cousin Harris Weinberg came to visit. Uh, we were cooking. I left the apartment to go get something, and something caught fire in the apartment on 00:59:00the stove. He called the fire department, but he didn't know where he was! (both laugh) So he had to run down the street--(Crane coughs)--with the, to the sign to get the sign--to see what road he was on to come back and tell 'em where the fire was. Something that stayed with me all my life, because when I had kids and we had babysitters, I always made sure that they had the address--(laughs)--uh, before we left. Um, we did have a nice party there on that street. I remember that little efficiency apartment must've had two hundred, three hundred kids there, in--all over the place. Police came to break it up, several times. (laughs) Uh, I was walking somebody home, uh, when I heard the police cars coming. I said, "Gosh, there's a lot of police cars. Wonder what that is." They went in and arrested everybody that was over there except 01:00:00me. (laughs) I was gone. Uh, they had paddy wagons over there that took everybody. All my friends, both from Louisville and elsewhere. Um--

CRANE: For just public intoxication, or--

WEINBERG: Because they--intoxication, it was too loud, the police had asked 'em--to be honest, I think the reason they were arrested is because it got a little out of hand. The police officers were a little younger. The girls got a little fresh with 'em. One took the billy club, one took the mace, one took the car. So--(laughs)--uh--so all of these pe--they had to get the dean of students to go down and get 'em out. Um, but it was, uh, part of the growing up. (laughs)

CRANE: Fun times.

WEINBERG: Uh, lived on Virginia Avenue with, uh, George Schwartzman. Uh, George was, uh, from Buffalo, New York. Uh, he was a senior, I was a junior. Uh, we still keep in touch today. He, he's been in--actually, he's been in 01:01:00Kentucky more recently than he has over the--in the last fifty years. Uh, so we've been in contact with each other still. Uh, and then I was on Augusta Arms, which, again, was off of, uh, New Circle Road, uh, and I was in there with Mike Needleman (??) and Harry Jacobs.

CRANE: What did you study while you were at UK? Or did you?

WEINBERG: (sighs) Well, funny you should ask, because--(laughs)--the first time I took my kids to--up to the University of Kentucky, I was showing 'em, "Oh, I lived here, and I lived here, and I lived here," and Beverly would say, "Well, show 'em where you went to class!" (laughs) Uh, so, uh--I did go to school, and I was in the, uh, College of, uh, Business and Economics. I stu--uh, I got my BS in accounting. Uh, that building was pretty new at the 01:02:00time, although I'm not sure it's still there anymore, but it was--

CRANE: Is that the Commerce Building?

WEINBERG: Yeah.

CRANE: It is.

WEINBERG: Um, so, uh, that's, that's where, uh, that's where I was. I got an award--(laughs)--I got an--I was in the Air Force ROTC [Reserve Officers' Training Corps] for my first two years. After that you had to commit to being in the Air Force, uh, if you went any longer. And they told me I couldn't fly 'cause I had glasses, and I was probably too short anyway. So, uh, I decided to drop out. But my second year I got an award in the Air Force ROTC for best student in Air Force ROTC. I'm not sure that I was the best student, but one of the upperclassmen I helped out with accounting, and I think that's why I got that award--(laughs)--because I was able to help him get through his classes. So, uh--

CRANE: Describe your relationship with any Jewish or non-Jewish organizations 01:03:00on UK's campus at the time.

WEINBERG: Any Jewish or non-Jewish--

CRANE: There was a Jewish fraternity on campus.

WEINBERG: There was a Jewish fraternity. Um, there was ZBT [Zeta Beta Tau].

CRANE: And were you a member?

WEINBERG: Uh, for maybe a month. (laughs) I was actually the president of the pledge class, uh, when I came in. Uh, but I didn't stick with it. I, I really--I was in an apartment. I was having a good time in apartments. Uh, a lot of my friends were not in ZBT. Um, I think they came knocking on my door one morning, about two o'clock in the morning, and wanted to--me to get up and do somethin', and I just pulled the pillow over my head and said, "I'm not doing that!" (laughs) And, uh, went back to sleep, and that was the last time I was in ZBT. Um, I don't--I think I was a little burned out anyway. I'd been very 01:04:00active in the clubs in the center, uh, for, you know, three years. And I tha--I just thought I didn't need that socialization. They weren't doing that much that I couldn't do anyway. Um, and I found it too time-consuming, and, uh, and I had other friends that were not in, not participants. That was the only Jewish fraternity on campus. Uh, and when I say "Jewish fraternity," it was the only fraternity Jews could join! Uh, the others would--didn't admit Jews, uh, whether it be--and there were no sororities, uh, that admitted, uh, Jews at that time. So, uh--but I ne--again, that's probably the extent of the discrimination I found on UK's campus, because, um, I, I practiced my Juda--I mean, I practiced 01:05:00my Judaism on U of K--at U of K--uh, on holidays. I probably missed more than the average student because I would go to be out for yizkors or yahrzeits or Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur or whatever the holiday might be. I never found it a problem with any professor to make up any work or to question why I was gone for those, um--I think--I found out that if you respect yourself and your principles and your religion that others will respect you as well, and I found that throughout life. I found that in the army, when I was in, doing basic training. Um, first--well, do you, do you want to get into it?

CRANE: Sure.

WEINBERG: So we--when I was doing basic training, you have to do KP [kitchen police]. KP duty, everybody rotated through KP duty. Now they liked me 01:06:00spreading the bacon because I didn't like to touch it. Uh, and the other guys would eat it as fast as they could make it. So I was the guy who--(laughs)--they'd have spread the bacon. Um, I also kept kosher meat--(laughs)--uh, that they would send me from home, little packages of corned beef or salami or whatever, so that when they had food that I wouldn't eat, I could go back into the kitchen and grab my salami or corned beef. Uh, never a problem unless somebody ate it before I got there. (laughs) Uh, we were out on bivouac in the army, and I had maybe a yizkor, uh, memorial service. And I told 'em, and I didn't, I didn't do the bivouac. I went to services. Uh--

CRANE: Where were you stationed?

WEINBERG: Fort Polk, Louisiana. Very bad during the summer. (laughs) I was there from April fifteenth, tax day, until August.

CRANE: Wow.

WEINBERG: Um--

CRANE: What was your, uh--just going back to the ZBTs for a minute, what was your pledge class like? Were they mostly Jewish students?

WEINBERG: Well, yeah. The pledge class was almost always--almost all Jewish. I would say that--I don't know of anybody in there that wasn't Jewish. But I didn't know everybody, 'cause I didn't stay that long. (laughs) Uh, but most all of 'em were Jewish. And most of 'em were from the Northeast. Um, and maybe that--you know, I didn't, I didn't know them. A lot of the kids that I knew were from Louisville, um, and in this area. And those are the friends I maintained, and, uh, and kept there.

CRANE: And did you have any kind of connection with Hillel or any other Jewish organizations while you were on campus?

WEINBERG: Hillel. Uh, Hillel was somewhat active. It was, um, based out of the temple, I think. Uh, that's where most of the events were. Um, and they 01:08:00were very nice. They had, you know--periodically they'd have, uh, dinners. And if you're a college student and can find a free dinner, it will attract you there. And, uh, that's where I met a lot of the, you know, a lot of the people that were at U of K and some of the locals, uh--you know, Judy Wurmser, I think, uh, um, was a local. Uh, who else? Um, Susan Jacobs--

CRANE: --um-hm--

WEINBERG: --was a local. Um, so, um, you know, we met, uh, we met some of those people. You know, one of the--certainly one of the families that took all of us in that was like a second home to us, uh, was yours. Uh, your mom and dad, uh, had us over for any holiday we didn't go home for. Um, they were just, 01:09:00uh, great. Uh, Irv and, um, Irv and Martha Steinberg. Um, probably another reason that we were always over there was because, uh, yeah, you and your sister, uh, uh, Cookie. Uh, we called her Cookie. Her name was Betty. But I've never called her Betty. She's Cookie. (laughs)

CRANE: Just Cookie?

WEINBERG: Uh, but it was a second home to us. Uh, and your parents, uh, not only made meals, but they were--your dad was entertaining. (laughs) Uh, he's always fun to be around.

CRANE: "Fun." I've not quite heard that description before, but--

WEINBERG: --he was fun--

CRANE: --I'll remember it. Describe the--you touched on this a little bit, but the climate on campus for Jews becoming members of non-Jewish fraternities, um, that--did everyone, uh, were there more of you and less of the ZBTs? Were there 01:10:00more people that didn't affiliate? And how did you connect with them? Um, how did you meet other Jewish kids on campus?

WEINBERG: Well, I mean, I, I, I probably knew more ki--more Jewish kids on campus than I knew of ZBTers. Um, and we had our, well, we had our own fun. You know, we could have our own parties. We could have, uh, our own dances. We could do whatever we chose, uh, without the restrictions of a fraternity. Um, and so that's what--

CRANE: --if I'm not mistaken--

WEINBERG: --we did.

CRANE: --you had a couple of--not roommates, but other people in your apartment complex that were Jewish.

WEINBERG: Yup. Jay Levine was out there. Bruce Gimmer (??) was out there. Uh, Howard Rosenberg was out there. Mickey Lorch (??) was out there. Uh, there 01:11:00were a lot. Uh, again, a lot of--a lot of those that were in Zeebs were, uh, were from the Northeast. Um, always wondered how they found their way to Kentucky, but I think it was, again, because it was cheap, even for out-of-state students. Uh, it wasn't $120, but it was still cheap. Um, but, you know, we, we, we had a lot of people up there from Louisville, a lot of people. Uh, Jay Levine, Howard Passamaneck. Jay passed away a number of years ago now. Uh, Howard Rosenberg and I are still very good friends. Um, Jaye Hinerfeld Bittner, um, was there for--till she failed out. But--(laughs)--but she came back to be a very good student. Um, and, uh--but we're still best of friends. Um, Mike Needleman, uh, was there. Just a whole slew of people. Hettie Miller-Reuben 01:12:00(??), uh, title. (laughs) Uh, Louis Reuben, uh, and Hettie, uh, were dating when we were there, uh, ultimately got married, uh, when we got out. Um, who else was there? George Schwartzman I told you. Ben Bayer (??) was there, a lot of fun, uh, from Danville, Kentucky. Um, Jill Essie (??)--Simon, now--Jill Essie was there. Um, Bruce Goomer (??), uh--

CRANE: --you did know a lot of Jewish people, did you--

WEINBERG: --Max Goldsmith, uh, Teddy Gordon, uh, Mickey Lorch. Uh, Teddy Gordon, by the way, he's probably the one you hear about all the time taking the school board to court, uh, who also took 'em to the Supreme Court over, uh, the busing issue. (coughs) And won, to some degree. There's still busing, but under a very different basis.

CRANE: So most of these people were from Louisville? So--I mean, uh--

WEINBERG: --most--

CRANE: --obviously some of 'em weren't.

WEINBERG: Well, most of 'em weren't. Uh, Mel--there was a Melvin Orlansky, from Mississippi. Uh--

CRANE: And somehow you all just found each other and--

WEINBERG: --yeah--

CRANE: --and connected.

WEINBERG: Yeah. Probably some through Hillel. Uh, Judy Witzer was there. Uh, Mickey Franklin was there. Met Simone Bloomfield, who, uh, ultimately married, uh, Arty, uh--

CRANE: --Salomon--

WEINBERG: --Salomon, right. Arty Solomon. Uh, so again, where did I meet those? I--probably at Hillel, but I, I'm not sure. Just sort of happened.

CRANE: One of those wild parties.

WEINBERG: At one of those parties where nobody got arrested.

CRANE: Um, how did your time at UK impact your Jewish identity? Did it change from living in Louisville and spending all that time at the Comm--Jewish Community Center? Um, did it stay the same?

WEINBERG: Well, I still identified strongly with Judaism, um, whether I was here or whether I was there. Uh, again, I never found any anti-Semitism on campus, uh, that affected me. Um, you know, I kept my kosher, uh, uh, restrictions within the apartment. You know, I wasn't always with--well, none of the roommates I had really kept kosher. But they kept--but I had silverware--(laughs)--that I would paint with polish, nail polish, on the ends of 'em so you'd know which ones were milk silverware and which ones were meat, so they wouldn't get 'em confused and, uh, and keep everything straight in those apartments. So, you know, I, I didn't find it to be a problem, uh, to maintain my Jewishness and yet do everything I wanted, uh, out there.

CRANE: What did you do after you graduated?

WEINBERG: Oh, man. Uh, well, I--(laughs)--

CRANE: And how did you meet your wife?

WEINBERG: Uh, when I graduated, uh, I was already in the reserves, the army reserves. Uh, and I'd already been recruited by General Electric, uh, for their financial management program. Uh, I didn't--hadn't--hadn't done my basic training yet, uh, when I got out. So I deferred with General Electric until I finished with my basic training. Uh, so I, uh, I did do that. I went and did my basic training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Uh, I, uh--afte--after Fort Polk, um, I started with General Electric. I met my wife Beverly on a blind date, arranged by Mayor Jerry Abramson. Uh, Jerry and I had been close at that time, 01:16:00uh, for years. We grew up together. And, uh, Beverly's best friend was Jerry's sister. Uh, and Jerry and I were hanging around a lot. And I didn't know Beverly, because she was a few years younger than me. Uh, but, uh--but it seemed to work out. (laughs) We've been married for forty-four years now. I hope that's right when she hears this, but it is. Forty-four. (laughs) Um, after that, uh, I was with General Electric for, uh, fifteen years. Uh, I, uh, had become the, uh, manager of accounting for the western half of, uh, distribution sales. Um, I, uh, had been offered transfers a number of times and 01:17:00was close to taking a couple of those and just chose not to. Yeah, so then my upward mobility, I felt, was limited, and it was time to either wear the monogram as a tattoo or to, uh, find somethin' else. And so I left General Electric, and actually I opened up a, uh, uh, sandwich and pizza shop in the mall--see, you didn't know that either, did you?--uh, called All American Hero. It was a franchise. It was in Oxmoor Mall. Uh, I did that for about five years. Um, and then, uh, the mall, the Oxmoor Mall, wanted the food, uh, the food stores to move up to a food court, and it was, uh--it just--then they wanted me to pay for that, to renovate it, to do the, all the--what I had done in the shop. And then while I was selling pizza and subs, they wanted that to 01:18:00be two separate shops. Uh, and so I didn't, um, I chose not to do that. Uh, during the time that I was, um--while I had the shop, uh, I also had become the chie--CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville. Uh, so I had the shop open for about five years. Uh, after about three years I became the CFO, as wel,l of the Federation, and I spent the next twenty-three years with them.

CRANE: What exactly is the Jewish--it's Jewish Community Federation, right?

WEINBERG: When I started, it was the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville, JCFL. Um, it's changed a little bit in its nature since then, but it was that way for most of my career. Uh, and what is it? The easiest way to describe what the Federation was is it's the Metro United Way of the Jewish community. 01:19:00You raised dollars and allocated 'em to recipient agencies. Um, so that's, I mean, that's, that's what we did. That's what it was. Uh, we were sort of a coordinator of programming through those agencies, uh, simply because you could allocate dollars where you wanted the programs to be. And so, uh, you became a coordinator of moving the community in the direction you thought it needed to, and who could provide those services in the most effective and efficient way.

CRANE: So what were exactly were your responsibilities, and how did--what was your relationship with allocating those dollars, and who--what agencies got them?

WEINBERG: (sighs) Well, I, I always say that the reason I went with the, with the feder--number one, when I went with the Federation, I probably thought it 01:20:00was just gonna be for a couple years, and then I was just gonna move along and go back to the for-profit arena. Uh, but I found, working for the Federation, that it was much more rewarding than just trying to see what the bottom li--the bottom line, getting the best net income you could. Uh, I found, uh, working in the Jewish community for something you believed in that was helping people, uh, was much more rewarding than working for a General Electric or somebody like them. Uh, how did that happen? Um, the--you know, we raised dollars. We had committees that would review requests for allocations. We had certain local, uh, agencies, uh, that we always allocated to, whether it be the Jewish Community Center, the Jewish Family and Vocational Service, uh, the local Hebrew schools, um, um, the Council of Jewish Women, uh, you know, they'd make requests 01:21:00and then we would have to pare it down because there's--while everybody has a great cause, probably the most difficult job is that there's never enough resources for the needs in the community. And so, uh, you would just ha--you'd have to make--these committees would make the decisions on how to allocate those dollars. Alan Engel was the executive director at that time. He's who hired me. Uh, he was, uh, just outstanding. Um, he came with a long, uh, family history of community service, uh, with federations. His dad was a federation director. Uh, he had been around in Cleveland and, uh, uh, St. Louis and Denver before he came to Louisville. Um, so we, we worked well together, and I, and I stayed, uh, with the Federation.

CRANE: How did the Federation get its money?

WEINBERG: Uh, annual campaigns. Um, go out to the community, ask for dollars. Um, had a lot of volunteers that did that. Uh, but, you know, you had, uh, those that were your larger donors, you, uh, we had, uh, million-dollar dinners, uh, where those people would come and make their, their gifts. It would be a nice dinner, and we'd have a nice speaker. Uh, Coach Cal came to speak the first year he was, uh, at Kentucky. Um, I'll tell you a story about that too. Uh, and they introduced me to Cal because I was a big Kentucky fan. And I said, "This is David Weinberg, want you to meet him. Big Kentucky fan." And I said, "And I got a good story for you." Right after I had graduated the university, 01:23:00um, there was a girl that was going to University of Georgia that asked me to come down for their sorority dance, and it was a weekend Kentucky was playing Georgia in basketball. I said, "What a great weekend! Go to the sorority dance, go to the ballgame. Can't beat that." I get down there--and they only had a cracker-box of a gym down at Georgia at that time. I couldn't find a ticket. So I was in the, uh, hotel with the team. I said, "I'm gonna call Adolph Rupp and ask him for a ticket. (laughs) I know how I can get a ticket." So I called him, and I said--he was in the hotel; I just said, "Give me Adolph Rupp's room," and they gave me Adolph Rupp's room. And he answered the call, and I told him my sad story, and he said, "Well," he says, "Come on down to my room about four o'clock, and I'll see what I can do for you." I went down there at four o'clock. He comes out in his blue robe, talks to me about Dan Issel, 01:24:00who'd hurt his hand, didn't know how effective he'd be at playing that, that night, and gave me two tickets next to his wife. So I related the--

CRANE: --now that's a good story--

WEINBERG: --so I--(Crane laughs)--so I related that story to Cal, and he said, "What a great story!" And I said, "Yeah, and I don't expect any less of you." (both laugh)

CRANE: Did he give you two tickets? No.

WEINBERG: He didn't give me any yet, but you have to ask.

CRANE: That's true. (Weinberg laughs) Um, clearly you've worked with, um, lots of the Jewish community for many years, I guess in your divvying out the money. Um, what relationship did, um--if any--did the Federation have with the Jewish Hospital?

WEINBERG: Well, we had a very close relationship. There was no legal relationship, um, but, uh, but it felt like there was a, an agency-type 01:25:00relationship. Uh, Jewish Hospital was good to the Federation; it was good to the entire Jewish community. Um, Hank Wagner was the, uh, the executive there. Uh, whatever he could do--number one, they, they made a nice gift to the Federation every year for the campaign. But that wasn't nearly the extent of what they did. Um, we were on their insurance policy just as if we were Jewish Hospital employees. And I don't mean just the Federation. I meant any Jewish communal worker through the Federation could be on their policy. Um, probably not all legal, because there was no legal relationship between us. But they wanted to do that. Um, so we had synagogue employees that were on that plan. We had all our agency employees that were on that plan. We had our JC--you 01:26:00know, the JCC [Jewish Community Center], the family service, their employees, through the Federation to the hospital, were on their plan. We paid less for our premiums than their employees were paying for their premiums. Our premiums probably didn't go up for 15 years. As medical costs were rising and skyrocketing and other insurance premiums, the hospital subsidized them. They never charged us any more. Probably to the tune of close to a million dollars a year at one time.

CRANE: And this is not just for the employees of the Federation but--

WEINBERG: But Jewish community. All employees within the Jewish community, and all of its agencies.

CRANE: That's pretty amazing.

WEINBERG: It was amazing. Um, they, and they started paring that down after a while. But, uh, but it was up to close to a million dollars. Uh, our 01:27:00executives paid zero. The executives paid nothing for their medical insurance for their families through Jewish Hospital. Um, it was--and they had a, they had a very good plan for their employees. So it was, it was very nice. Not only that, uh, when we brought the Russians in, uh, you know, when they were, uh, were fleeing, uh, uh, Russia, and we brought a bunch of those, uh, immigrants in, they, a, helped find employment for 'em at the hospital, and b, provided, uh, free medical, uh, uh, services for them. So, uh, they've always been a very close, uh, it was a very close relationship. It all happened because of Hank Wagner. Uh, he wanted that relationship to remain.

CRANE: With the community--

WEINBERG: --with the community, right--

CRANE: --at large. That's, um, quite a interesting piece of information. What 01:28:00do you see as the changes, having worked with the, the larger Jewish community and through the Federation and Jewish Hospital and some of these other, um, organizations that received some of your funding, um, how do you see the changes, um, in the Jewish community over time?

WEINBERG: Well, there's been a lot of change. Uh, it used to have a strong affiliation with synagogues. There's not nearly as strong affiliation today as there used to be. (clears throat)

CRANE: What do you mean by that?

WEINBERG: I mean, I mean there's more non-affiliated Jews with their synagogues, with synagogues. Um, there's not the commitment to the synagogues that there used to be from those who do participate. Um, children growing up--while my children participated a lot at the center, it's not the same--ever 01:29:00since probably there's been--I blame busing. I blame busing for a lot of things, 'cause I don't think it's accomplished the ends that they'd like to have accomplished. Uh, and I was one of the strongest supporters of busing when it occurred, but I just don't think that it, that it's worked out. But I think it's destroyed the neighborhoods, it's destroyed the friendships. Um, you know, they've got kids that are bused to different schools--it used to be you played with the friends in the neighborhood, you went to school with the friends in the neighborhood, you went to the center with the friends in the neighborhood, uh, and now it's just all scattered. Uh, so I think it's, it's hurt a lot. Um, the club system isn't what it used to be. Uh, again, I blame part of that on the fact that, uh--of busing. Uh, you're not friends with the kids in your neighborhood, you're not friends with the kids at your school, you know, goin' to the center. So it's affected that as well. (coughs) Um, so I--you know, 01:30:00volunteerism in general, I don't think is what it used to be. Uh, I don't know if they're burned out, they've got other things they need to do. They're not as committed. Um, you know, they, uh, they talk about the X generation and the Millennials and, and whatever, and I call it the Me Generation, uh, because it's all about me first. Uh, it's all about I want the biggest television, the nicest car, the biggest house. I want it today, I don't want to wait till tomorrow, and I don't care if somebody else is starving. Um, I think it's, uh, it's sort of sad, but that's, that's the way I see things that have started to happen. Um--

CRANE: So do you feel like--(Weinberg clears throat)--people are less Jewish, and that's why they're not affiliating, uh, with congregations, or they're less 01:31:00into the organized religious part, or, um--

WEINBERG: Uh, I think a little of all, all the above. Um, I don't think their parents have made the commitment, and therefore the children hadn't made as much of a commitment. They--you know--(clears throat)--our parents would--I don't think that the, the parents have made the commitment to their children to get them to Jewish functions and to make sure they associate with their Jewish, uh, uh, friends and, uh, activities. Um, our parents used to make sure that we got to the synagogue, that we got to the Jewish Community Center, maybe even on a daily basis, because that's where the activity was. Um, I think the center has failed in some degree because I think they, uh, had the facilities and the 01:32:00resources, uh, to make it a, as desirable a place as any place outside the center, and haven't, sometimes maybe because of the, the nature of the beast today, with lawsuits and injury and whatever else. Uh, they've made it more difficult to drive to different events, uh, to sign off for purposes of protecting themselves. Those are--you know, you don't have to do that goin' somewhere else. Um, so it's, you know, it's--if you, if you make it harder, they're just not gonna do it. They'll go somewhere where it's easier and more fun.

CRANE: What are your most memorable, um, thoughts about your work at the Federation? (pause) In looking back--

WEINBERG: --well--

CRANE: --over the last--what, twenty-something years?

WEINBERG: Twenty-plus years.

CRANE: Twenty, yeah.

WEINBERG: I'm still doing some consulting with the feder--with--it's not called the Federation anymore, it's called the Jewish Community of Louisville.

CRANE: Oh!

WEINBERG: Uh, they merged with, uh, the Jewish Community Center. Uh, that happened in about 2007 or '8. Uh, I was the vice president and CFO of that organization, of the merged organization. Um, they, uh--I think that's one of the, I mean, that's one of the things. I mean, that, that merger was accomplished. It wasn't an easy thing to do, uh, because everybody has their, uh, had their own board, everybody had their own way of doing things, everybody had, uh, their au--you know, their autonomy, where now they didn't. Uh, and it wasn't easy to bring the, the accounting systems together and the culture together. A lot of people looked at the Federation as being on this, quote, 01:34:00"pedestal." Uh, and, uh, and resented it, I think. Uh, so, um--

CRANE: Can you explain that?

WEINBERG: Yeah. I, I think, uh, we probably had the, the--the leadership was stronger at the Federation, and the leadership raised the money and allocated it as they chose, uh, through different committees and representations, but it was still the Federation. Uh, and I think people resent that idea. If you ask for, if you ask for two hundred thousand dollars and you get a hundred thousand, there's some resentment. "Uh, well, what are you doin' with that money?" "Well, you know, there's other needs." "Well, if the Federation people weren't making so much, then there'd be more to allocate." And so I think the attempt to bring those organizations together was to certainly reduce some of that 01:35:00overhead, uh, and have more dollars to allocate. But their, the cultures of the two organizations, uh, there was, there was an issue bringing 'em together. Uh, 'cause they resented each other at that point, uh. And so, uh--but I think they, you know, with, with time and passa--with passage of time, that, that passes as well. So, uh, I think they're doing much better today than they were when the initial merger occurred.

CRANE: Did they do better--are you saying they were better when they were separated?

WEINBERG: No, I'm not necessarily. I think the, uh, I think just trying to bring everybody together who had different feelings about their organization, it was hard to have people take off their individual hats and put on a community hat. Um, so that was a change. Do I think we were--you know, my personal--

CRANE: --um-hm--

WEINBERG: --my personal opinion--and some people will disagree with this, I'm sure--in retrospect, I think there were better things about being separate. Uh, when it merged, it created some hard--some very--it created some, some splits within the community. Those that were Federation supporters, those who were Jewish Community Center supporters, um, felt like they were ignored in, uh, felt like they were ignored. Some of the big givers quit giving, because they didn't agree with the, the way it was merged or what happened with the merger. So they lost significant dollars in pledges. So, while the attempt was to reduce the overhead so there would be more dollars to allocate, the fact was what you saved in dollars there you lost in pledges. Uh, so that didn't work out so well. Uh, 01:37:00and while I think some people resented the fact that the Federation was--appeared to be this, quote, "elitist" type of group, I think there's some benefit to that, in retrospect. Uh, I think people want to affiliate with and be a part of that kind of an organization that is somewhat elitist, at least appears to be, uh, elitist. Uh, because they, uh, they want to affiliate with it. They don't mind giving. It draws your leadership--your, your wealthier leadership, anyway--um, together. Um, and I think they lost some of that.

CRANE: What was the relationship between the Federation before it merged and the synagogues and temples in Louisville?

WEINBERG: Well, the, there was no allocation bein' made to the synagogues and 01:38:00temple except for, uh, the Hebrew school. Uh, they did allocate dollars to the temple Hebrew school, because they were not part of this community Hebrew school. The other synagogues belonged to the community Hebrew school. Uh, Temple Shalom, Keneseth, Adath Jeshurun, um, all belonged to the community school. They had about a hundred kids, uh, participating. The temple, the largest congregation, had their own Hebrew school of about a hundred kids. And they were getting no allocation. So, uh, people complained about that, and they started making an allocation on a per-capita basis, uh, to those kids for Jewish education. And, um, other than that, I mean, there was a good working relationship, but no allocations and no agency-type relationship, other than 01:39:00providing the health insurance, uh, through the Federation.

CRANE: As far as, uh, things like community calendars or joint events, did they--did individual temples and synagogues do their own thing, or did they all sort of run through the Federation?

WEINBERG: Well, it's interesting. The JCC, not the Federation, was keeping a community calendar. Uh, and sometimes it was better than others, and sometimes people participated and sometimes people didn't. Uh, so I would say that, you know, it wasn't as effective as it could've been or should've been. Um, and that's, you know, that's where it is today probably as well.

CRANE: You've mentioned Jerry Abramson, um, several times, um, as your friend, but, um, as a mayor, what do you, how do you feel that his being Jewish and being the mayor of Louisville has, um--if at any, what has it been--what impact 01:40:00has it had on the Jewish community or Louisville at large?

WEINBERG: Well, I think the Jewish leadership in Louisville has been significant. You know, our, our numbers are not very great. We maybe have about eighty-five hundred out of a million-plus, uh, metro area. But you've got Jerry Abramson, who was mayor for a number of years. Uh, you've got John Yarmouth, who's a, uh, um, House representative. Um, so, and, and, so we, you know, we've been active. The Jewish Hospital has been, you know, has been active. It's been in, at least Jewish in name, if not anything else, but, uh, Jewish in name. They were, you know, at the top of the pote--totem pole with hand surgery and heart surgeries and heart transplants and hand transplants and so I, you know, I think we've, uh, -----------(??) leadership. Somethin' a lot 01:41:00of people don't under--don't know is that the Jewish Community Center, uh, started their orchestra probably back in the 1900s, early 1900s, which ultimately evolved into the Louisville, uh, Orchestra. Uh, the, that was the birthplace of the Louisville Orchestra.

CRANE: When did the Jewish Community Center start?

WEINBERG: Well, the YMHA was, uh, was the third oldest YMHA, and that was the--the predecessor of the JCC.

CRANE: What does YM--Y--

WEINBERG: --Y-M--

CRANE: --M-H-A--

WEINBERG: Young Men Hebrews [sic] Association.

CRANE: Ah.

WEINBERG: Um, and that, uh--when did that start? The, uh--(pause)--that was in 01:42:001890. The YMHA was started in 1890. In 1955 it became the Jewish Community Center on Dutchmans Lane. But the YMHA, um, was--has been around a long time. Uh--

CRANE: And the--did the Federation fund that building?

WEINBERG: Did the Federation fund which building? The--

CRANE: --the JCC--

WEINBERG: --JCC building?

CRANE: Um-hm.

WEINBERG: I think it, uh, to be honest, I don't know. Uh, I think it was just a community drive, uh, that started that. Um--

CRANE: David, what, what was Judaism like? Um, we've talked about you growing up and your work and what about, um, Judaism in your home as a parent? Um, how was it--how did--did it differ from you growing up?

WEINBERG: How did what differ?

CRANE: How Judaism in your home with your children, you as a parent, you and Beverly.

WEINBERG: Than when I grew up?

CRANE: Um-hm.

WEINBERG: Ah, more Conservative than Orthodox. Uh, when I was growing up, we were certainly much more Orthodox in my home, and gradually becoming more Conservative with my aunt and uncle. Um, but, uh, but, you know, we--

CRANE: --did you keep a kosher home?--

WEINBERG: Kept a kosher home. Uh, that didn't mean we didn't eat out. Uh, but we did keep a kosher home. Uh, today, uh, most every Friday evening, uh, Scott and his family will come for, uh, Shabbat dinner. Uh, and I'll light the candles, say the Kiddush, say the Motzi. Um, the kids have gotten into a tradition of, uh, we give 'em a little bit of, uh, silver to put into, uh, a 01:44:00charity box, uh, at the meal, and, uh, once a year we'll distribute that. And so--

CRANE: --that's a nice--

WEINBERG: --you know, uh, so, you know, the holidays, uh, we all go to the synagogue. Um, Scott, again, is very active, uh, has been very active. So, uh, I think we've--you know, we're not as, not as, uh, Orthodox as we used to be, but we're still Jews. (laughs)

CRANE: How did your children feel, um, about their Jewishness in Louisville? Were they, um--do you think they felt any anti-Semitism or anything different than you might have felt?

WEINBERG: No, I think they had a, a strong commitment to their Judaism through 01:45:00high school. Um, while they were with me. They, you know, they participated in the clubs. Uh, Scott was the president of, uh, of one of the chapters. Lindsey was, uh, uh, also active in her chapter. Um, I don't think there was, they felt any discrimination in any way. I think they missed out a lot on what we had as kids being within the same neighborhood, the same schools, as much activity at the center as we had. Um, but, um--and I, and I'm sorry for that, because I thought that was, uh, some pretty good times. Um, but it is what it is, and--

CRANE: (pause) What is your most vivid memory of Jewish life or Jewish ritual as a child or an adult? Or as a parent?

WEINBERG: When I was a child, I think it'd be, uh--I mean, one, it would be bar mitzvah. Um, when my bar mitzvah was a big bar mitzvah. I mean, it was--(laughs)--uh, we went at eight o'clock in the morning. I did this--the morning service, Shacharit, I did, uh, Haftorah, and I did Musaf, and that went from eight till twelve. Uh, we had--(laughs)--we had sent out invitations to a lot of our friends, some who were not Jewish, and they got there at eight o'clock, which Jews don't do, for the most part. Um, and, uh, and there weren't a whole lot of people there, but they were there. And they said, "My goodness, Jews must have big bladders, because they--(laughs)--have such long service." I said, "You can get up and go to the bathroom if you need!" But they were in the service. Um, but I had, uh, it was a, you know, they had a big Kiddush 01:47:00afterwards. Uh, we had a big adult party at the Kentucky Hotel. There were ice sculptures, there was serving, um--my dad went up to Chicago and picked out the kosher meat that he wanted to serve. Uh, it was brought out on silver trays all at the same time. I mean, it was a, it was a big bar mitzvah. Uh, people would tell me in the parking lot of Kroger's--some of these ninety-year-old people would say, "I still remember your bar mitzvah." (laughs) And, uh--so, um, you know, I, I remember that. And we had a kids' party as well that--not with steak, but with fried chicken, but--(laughs)--uh, but it was nice. Uh, that's a big memory. Uh, the memory of goin' to my grandfather's house with all of the family, uh, that would stay there and, uh--

CRANE: You mean Sam Meyers's house.

WEINBERG: Sam Meyers's house, that's right. Sam--(laughs)--what I thought was 01:48:00my grandfather's house! Goin' to Sam Meyers's house, uh, uh, was--I mean, to see all those people, you, you got to remember, I had, in that family, I had, uh, uh, ten cousins. I had ten first cousins. And so their parents. And those cousins stayed in this little house, overnight. Sometimes for two nights, for Rosh Hashanah. Um, and so it was, uh, interesting. They had a little bathroom downstairs 'cause they had to build one for my grandmother, just--you went into the cellar from the first--normally from the first floor, but on that landing, on that step landing, they built a small bathroom, so that--(laughs)--she could--didn't have to walk up the steps all the time. So, um--so to--(laughs)--so to go to the basement, then you had to go through the bathroom--(both laugh)--but, uh--you know, she would make--she wouldn't cook on 01:49:00Shabbos or on the yontiff, so it was on a low fire, uh, in the basement, in the stove down there. And so you smelled it through the house all the time. And you had to go through that bathroom to get to, to bring the food up, and, um--you know, those are, those are all good memories.

CRANE: And with your kids, what's one of your fondest memories raising your kids Jewish?

WEINBERG: Seein' what they've, uh, what they've continued to do as adults, um, both bein' as active as they are, bringing their kids up very Jewish too. So you think you had to do something right or just be lucky. (laughs)

CRANE: You probably did something right, David. What has been the role of Israel and Zionism in your activities and as your identity as a Jew?

WEINBERG: Ah. That's the homeland. Uh, Federation, again, uh, that was, 01:50:00uh--Federation was there to raise money for Israel. Um, my daughter's, uh, bat mitzvah we had in Israel. Um, my son, uh, went on the March of the Living, uh, which was through the concentration camps with a, a large group through the United States, uh, culminating in a, uh--being in Israel. Uh, so that's meant a lot to, to both of them and to us. Uh, you know, I spend my--at one time, 50 percent of all the dollars we raised went to Israel. Um, during the, uh, you know, during the, the wars, I mean, people, people, uh, stepped forward and contributed, and, uh, we raised money for Israel.

CRANE: That's changed, right?

WEINBERG: Mm, no. We don't allocate as much on a regular basis, but when 01:51:00there's an emergency, people still step up.

CRANE: Looking back, what, if anything, would you change about your relationship with Judaism?

WEINBERG: What, if anything, would I change?

CRANE: Um-hm.

WEINBERG: You know, I, uh, probably wouldn't change a whole lot. Um, I respect those that are more Orthodox than I. Uh, sometimes I think, you know, maybe I should be more religious than I am, but the reality is I wouldn't change. Uh, but I respect those who can do it.

CRANE: Is there anything else you'd like to share that I haven't asked you about or that we haven't already talked about?

WEINBERG: (sighs) Uh, goodness. We've pretty much talked about most 01:52:00everything. Uh, yeah. (pause)

CRANE: Well, David, this has been really fun--

WEINBERG: --it's been--

CRANE: --getting to see this other side of you that, um--(Weinberg laughs)--I wasn't quite as familiar with. And, uh--

WEINBERG: --it's my pleasure. I'm glad that, uh--

CRANE: --thank you so much for--

WEINBERG: --you asked me--

CRANE: --for sharing your time and your stories.

WEINBERG: Thank you.

[End of interview.]