6 10 305 https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/b4dbb7f99bbc33e2b6e1cada788203b6.png ef0efa00a48fd041ffacf12bf935da0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Amanda Holbrook Matthew Starks Thomas Hart Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Wirtschafter Interview Keyword Education--Kentucky Physicians--Kentucky Temple Adath Israel Minneapolis (Minn.) Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Holidays. OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh220_jk049 Interview with David Wirtschafter, March 30, 2017 2017oh220_jk049 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Families. Family histories. Genealogy Jewish families. Childhood Jewish children Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Lexington (Ky.) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. Jewish leadership Rabbis Education--Kentucky Physicians--Kentucky Temple Adath Israel Minneapolis (Minn.) Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Holidays. David Wirtschafter Amanda Holbrook Matthew Starks Thomas Hart 2017oh220_jk049_wirtschafter_acc001.mp3 0 https://oralhistory.uky.edu/spokedbaudio/2017oh220_jk049_wirtschafter_acc001.mp3 Other audio 2 Introduction Hello, our names are Thomas Hart-- Thomas Hart, Amanda Holbrook, and Matthew Starks introduce themselves and state that they are students at the University of Kentucky who are conducting the interview for a WRD 112 class at the University of Kentucky and for the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project. The date is stated as March 30th, 2017 and they are interviewing Rabbi D. Wirtschafter. Heritage ; Jewish ; Oral history projects ; Rabbi D. Wirtschafter ; Rabbis ; University of Kentucky 38.0307, -84.5040 17 University of Kentucky https://jewishheritagefund.com/about-2/about-jhfe/ A webpage detailing the Jewish Heritage Fund For Excellence. 38 Family background and ancestry So I know we just introduced you, but for the record, could you tell us your full name at birth? Rabbi D. Wirtschafter states his full name as David Dine Wirtschafter. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter explains he was born in 1970 in the University of Kentucky Hospital. To the best of his knowledge, he is the first Lexington-born rabbi. He identifies his father as Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter and his mother as Carol Lavinstein Wirtschafter. He lists his four siblings: Jacob Daniel Wirtschafter, Benjamin Zoltan Wirtschafter, Joshua Schoen Wirtschafter, and Brooke Wirtschafter. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter states that he has two children, Zachariah and Emanuelle Wirtschafter. He discusses how the family name has remained fairly constant since his ancestors immigrated to the United States. David Dine Wirtschafter ; Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Rabbi D. Wirtschafter ; Rabbis ; Siblings Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants ; Jewish families. 17 373 Early education in Lexington, Kentucky Okay. So I have a few questions about growing up in Lexington, and more about your parents. Um, so where did you go to school growing up? Wirtschafter talks about his early schooling at St. Peter Claver Montessori (2 years) and Cassidy Elementary (1 year). He distinguishes the old and new Picadome schools and talks about school size. He states that he left Lexington in 1978 at the age of 8 years old. Cassidy Elementary School ; New Picadome ; Old Picadome ; Picadome Elementary School ; Saint Peter Claver Montessori School ; St. Peter Claver Montessori School Childhood ; Education--Kentucky ; Lexington (Ky.) 17 526 Childhood Jewish traditions Um, so, about, like Judaish--um, Judaism in your family, what Jewish--or, like, even non-Jewish, traditions did your family follow? Wirtschafter says he never preferred spending time with Jewish people over non-Jewish people, neither as a child nor now. He discusses Jewish traditions that he grew up with, such as Chanukah, Sukkot, Purim, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, strict observance of the Sabbath, a disciplined approach to the prayer book, and stricter observance of dietary laws. When considering these traditions, he references the Passover story of the four sons. He explains that this made Judaism relatable to him because he had three brothers. He finds it difficult to differentiate time spent in Camp Shalom and congregation. Chanukah ; Hanukkah ; Jewish ; Kosher ; Passover ; Rosh Hashanah ; Sabbath ; Sukkot ; Yom Kippur Childhood ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 1119 Raising children in Lexington Um, also, so do your children, um, attend the temple and the synagogue, or? Wirtschafter discusses his children. Zachariah is said to be a teacher at Ohavay Zion Synagogue, with Emmanuelle being likely to do the same. He says both children attended a Jewish day school in Minneapolis, where they had Hebrew and Torah every day. Zachariah is described as the president of the Temple youth group. The competition between temple and synagogue is touched on by Rabbi D. Wirtschafter. Hebrew ; Jewish ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Synagogues ; Temples ; Torah ; Youth groups Childhood ; Education ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.ozs.org The website of Ohavay Zion Synagogue. 1246 Childhood involvement in Jewish youth enrichment organizations Um, so, growing up, did you participate in, like, any clubs or organizations, like, related to the Jewish community? Wirtschafter says he participated in many Jewish organizations as a child. There were two different religious schools, a chapter of the Cub Scouts, the JCC, musicals in the Temple youth group, and the Temple Israel Minneapolis Youth Choir. He describes the gentile versus Jewish child proportion at the JCC of St. Louis Park in Greater Minneapolis. Cub Scouts ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Minneapolis Youth Choir ; St. Louis Park ; Temple Israel, Minneapolis (Minn.) ; Temple youth groups ; Temples Childhood ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 https://templeisrael.com/ Official website of Temple Israel in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 1407 General history and terminology of Reform and Conservative Judaism Um, so were you--um, you mentioned earlier, uh--I don't remember who it was, exactly--but you said something about confirmation-- Wirtschafter explains the differences between confirmation, bar mitzvah, and bat mitzvah. He explains the differences between Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism. He describes how all forms of Judaism must balance practicing religion with fitting in. Wirtschafter says that Reform got its start in the 1800s. He says that around World War II, Reform changed its approach and embraced more traditional Jewish practices. He says that Judaism became something to love not to hide. He also touches on the gender distinctions surrounding bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah, and how Reform embraced the bat mitzvah before Conservative Judaism did. Bar mitzvahs ; Bat mitzvahs ; Conservative ; Conservative Judaism ; Gender ; Judaism ; Orthodox Judaism ; Reform ; Reform Judaism ; World War 2 ; World War II ; World War Two ; WW2 ; WWII Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 2104 Jewish pride and anti-Semitism post-World War II I just wanted to jump back a few minutes to where you mentioned, um, following the Holocaust, that--when, you said the Reform Jews kind of had a change of attitude-- Wirtschafter says that Jewish people may act &quot ; normal&quot ; on the outside, but on the inside they are very much rooted in Judaism. He states that with increased anti-Semitism since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, there has been an increase in anxiety within the Jewish community. He describes attacks on temples, synagogues, and JCCs throughout the beginning of 2017. He says that while none have directly occurred at Temple Adath Israel, they have had their Facebook page attacked by those that deny the Holocaust. Wirtschafter conveys that there has been an unacceptable step backward since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, but it has at least created a renewed sense of urgency to respect one another (Muslims and Jews). 2016 election, United States ; 2016 presidential election ; 2016 U.S. election ; 2016 United States election ; Holocaust ; Jewish ; Muslim ; Temple Adath Israel ; Temples ; U.S. election 2016 ; U.S. elections ; United States elections Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Politics and government ; Religion ; Religion and politics 17 http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2017/03/08/bomb-threat-called-into-louisville-jewish-community-center/98901798/ An article about a bomb threat on a Louisville JCC on March 8, 2017. 2557 Discrimination and the 2017 Syrian refugee crisis So I know you work a lot with--or at least you're very outspoken about the refugee problem-- Wirtschafter talks about the Syrian refugee crisis and Bluegrass values. He states that standing up to friends and utilizing social media and technology platforms are some of the most efficient ways to stop unacceptable and prejudiced behavior. He describes those who do not help a refugee when they have the ability as 'bystanders of death.' Bluegrass ; Crisis ; Jewish ; Prejudice ; Refugee crisis ; Refugees ; Social media Discrimination. ; Emigration and immigration. ; Immigrants ; Politics and government 17 3016 Father's involvement in Jewish and medical communities in the 1960s-1970s Um, so, I guess, on a bit of a lighter topic, um, so we know your father was an important figure in Lexington-- Wirtschafter states that his father, Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter, founded the Ophthalmology Department of the University of Kentucky Medical School. He says that his father was inducted on the Board of Trustees in the Temple. He describes family lore, stating that Adolph Rupp supposedly called Wirtschafter's father seeking medical help but Dr. Wirtschafter was not home. Adolph Rupp ; Doctors ; Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter ; Family ; Family lore ; Ophthalmologists ; Ophthalmology Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish families. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Physicians--Kentucky 17 3322 Reflections on childhood education Um, so, I guess, are there any other, like, specific memories from your childhood growing up, that you'd like to share? Wirtschafter reflects on his childhood and says that he appreciates his time at St. Peter Claver, as he began to strengthen his values and learned the importance of play. He says that play is how we can make sense of the world, and then states that the underlying question in religion is how one can make life meaningful. He recognizes his former violin teacher, Kay Collier McLaughlin, as well as the teacher that taught him to read, Ms. Angela Johnson at Cassidy Elementary. Angela Johnson ; Cassidy Elementary School ; Kay Collier McLaughlin ; Saint Peter Claver ; Saint Peter Claver Montessori School ; St. Peter Claver ; St. Peter Claver Montessori School ; Teachers ; Values Education--Kentucky ; Jewish children ; Religion 17 3759 Transition to Minneapolis, Minnesota So, now that we've talked a lot about your childhood--(laughter)--um, I think we can move on to you leaving Lexington with your family. Wirtschafter says he moved to Minneapolis in the year of 1978. He states that his father, Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter, who had become tired of administrative responsibilities, got offered a position at the University of Minnesota. The position gave him more time in the operating room and more time to write, and his father remained in this position until the day he died. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter relays that he attended the University of Minnesota for a year before going to Brandeis University, influenced by its Jewish background. He explains how he had to leave home to finally grow up, and while at Brandeis he majored in English. 1978 ; Brandeis University ; English majors ; Jewish ; Minneapolis (Minn.) ; Minnesota ; University of Minnesota Childhood ; Education ; Education, Higher ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Physicians 17 https://www.brandeis.edu/ Brandeis University's web page. 3983 On becoming a rabbi So, did that ultimately, uh--how did you ultimately become wanting to be a, a rabbi? Wirtschafter says there were many reasons for becoming a rabbi. He lists Camp Shalom, the local Jewish summer day camp attended by many Jewish Lexingtonians' children ; studying abroad in the Israeli city of Haifa during high school ; the influence of current rabbis ; Brandeis University ; and a family who modeled Judaism, as important factors. He notes a moment in which a rabbi read a segment of &quot ; Death of a Salesman&quot ; by Arthur Miller during a sermon. He stated that he found this cool and felt that he could indeed be a rabbi. The interleaving of modern literature with a sermon showed him that you can remind people what matters in life without the use of scripture. Arthur Miller ; Camp Shalom ; Death of a Salesman (Play) ; Haifa ; Israel ; Jewish ; Sermons Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 4362 Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion So all these influences drew you to attend, uh, uh, the Union--Hebrew Union College Jewish Institute in New York-- Wirtschafter says that in attending the Institute, his first year of training was done in Jerusalem, while he then had the choice to go to either New York, Cincinnati, or Los Angeles. He explains that he chose New York, and depicts the city as dynamic, exhilarating, and historical. He then makes a reference to his age, 47, and how more of his teachers are beginning to die. Cincinnati (Ohio) ; Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion ; Jerusalem ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; New York ; Schools College students--Religious life ; Education, Higher ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion 17 http://huc.edu/ Hebrew Union College Jewish Institute of Religion's official website. 4547 Early rabbinical experience in the 2000s So, after you graduated from rabbinic school, where'd you begin your professional life as a rabbi? Wirtschafter says that he began as an assistant rabbi for three years in Huntington, Long Island. He relays that the congregation was only about 470 members and that this was where his son Zachariah was born. He then says he was offered a position as associate rabbi at a bigger congregation of about 800 to 850 families in the Bay Area (Burlingame). He then states that he took on a position as senior rabbi at the Temple Beth Sholom of Orange County California (Santa Ana, living in Irvine). He says he eventually moved back to Minneapolis and was the rabbi in residence of a Jewish day school, as well as the rabbi in residence for the Catholic Church. He then explains that during this, he worked part time as a rabbi in Ames, Iowa. His transition between these communities was motivated by the ability to reach more people and job availability. Ames (Iowa) ; Bay Area (Calif.) ; Burlingame (Calif.) ; Congregations ; Huntington (N.Y.) ; Irvine (Calif.) ; Jewish ; Long Island (N.Y.) ; Minnesota ; Orange County (Calif.) ; Orange County, California ; Santa Ana (Calif.) ; Temple Beth Sholom Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 https://www.tbsoc.com/ Official website of Temple Beth Sholom of Orange County 4714 Returning to Lexington, Kentucky in 2015 Uh, was there anything specific that influenced your decision to come back here? Wirtschafter says that nostalgia was one reason for finally returning to Lexington, Kentucky in 2015, however, it wasn’t enough on its own. He states that he needed a congregation that shared his vision and values for the rabbinate and the community, and he found that at Temple Adath Israel. He describes how living in a smaller town in comparison to New York offers a greater appreciation of the Jewish community. He says that there is a lot to be gained, such as flexibility with planning and one-on-one with students, in comparison to larger areas. He also says that volunteers are vital. Congregations ; Jewish ; Lexington, Kentucky ; New York ; Temple Adath Israel ; Volunteers Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 5118 Inner workings of Temple Adath Israel So, how would--uh, could you describe for us a few of the, say, like clubs, or organizations, or, you know, just activities that go on at the temple? Wirtschafter says that the workings of a temple are very similar to the workings of a church. He states that stewardship is done by the Board of Trustees and that the rabbi provides the religious tone, helps young people, and helps with the social justice component. He says that in the temple there are high school and junior high youth groups who typically meet once a week on Sundays. He explains that there are programs for elders, and that a deli is opened one or two Sundays a year. He summarizes it as a multi-faceted operation. Churches ; Jewish ; Social justice ; Stewardship ; Sundays ; Temple Adath Israel ; Temples ; Trustees Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 5402 Wirtschafter's influence on Temple Adath Israel How would you say--as far as you kind of inheriting the temple, in a way, um, has that--has the activity increased, as you've come? Wirtschafter says that an interim rabbi before him assisted the congregation in becoming more accepting of the transition into him. He relays that he is not at liberty to compare himself to his predecessors, but he does think that there is generally more going on, as well as more involvement than when he started 18 months earlier. He states that while he wants the temple size to grow, he does not want that to change the values and goals of the temple. He says it’s about more than just numbers. Goals ; Temple Adath Israel ; Temples ; Values Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.lextai.org/60-cbe/about-us/our-history Official website for Temple Adath Israel 5653 Work-life balance as a pulpit rabbi Okay, um, maybe we could ask a bit about, um, your wife. Wirtschafter explains that it is important to limit one’s work persona to just work. He says when at home he maintains his spouse and father role, and tries his best to limit any &quot ; leaking&quot ; between the two worlds to the best of his abilities. He states that his family undergoes democratic processes regarding how to practice and that they decide as a family. He also establishes that he can’t control his children as they get older, and that they will hopefully follow their conscience. Co-parenting ; Coparenting ; Democratic ; Divisions ; Fathers ; Home roles ; Jewish ; Roles ; Spouses ; Work roles Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 6079 His wife, Shana Lisa Sippy Uh, we've mentioned your wife a few times, so-- Wirtschafter elaborates on his relationship with his wife Shana Lisa Sippy. He states that she is a professor of comparative religion at Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota and will soon be teaching at Centre College. He says she had a Hindu father and a Jewish mother and that she was raised Jewish with exposure to Hindu culture. Her parents met in Berkley in the 1960s. He says he and Shana met in New York during his gap year. He depicts his wife Shana as a good listener and as someone who is very dedicated to the temple. He states that she runs the Jewish women’s group. Berkley (Calif.) ; Carleton College ; Centre College ; Cultures ; Hindu ; Jewish ; Minnesota ; New York ; Northfield (Minn.) ; Northfield, Minnesota ; Shana Lisa Sippy Families. ; Jewish families. ; Jewish women ; Judaism. ; Marriage ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 6427 Generational changes in Jewish community beliefs and practices Um, so, I guess a little bit about, um, like, generational changes-- Wirtschafter explains the difference between being in a Jewish congregation in the 21st century in contrast to the 20th. He says there are still families who attend both temple and synagogue, but the number is certainly less. He states that the number of days in religious school a week has dropped from three to two. Wirtschafter also relays changes in how often families come to service, how much money they give, and who is on the Board of Trustees. Lastly, Wirtschafter explains the change in views of women in Judaism and the culture in general, and states that the Jewish community in Lexington is much smaller than it used to be proportionally. Congregations ; Generational changes ; Generations ; Jewish ; Lexington, Kentucky ; Religious ; Synagogues ; Temples Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jewish women--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 interview Rabbi D. Wirtschafter is a religious family man, who was raised with three other children in 20th century United States. His father, Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter, was a doctor and founder of the Ophthalmology Department at the University of Kentucky Medical School. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter describes what it was like to be a Jewish youth in Lexington in the 1970s and the family traditions that were celebrated within his household. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter explains Jewish terms and history for those unfamiliar, and describes how growing anti-Semitic viewpoints of non-Jewish people in 2016 have influenced the feelings of his congregants. He explains the discrimination that is becoming inexcusably normal in 21st century United States, especially following the 2016 United States presidential election. He elaborates on the need to help refugees and those in need during the current Syrian refugee crisis. In 1978, Rabbi D. Wirtschafter moved to Minneapolis when his father got a job at the University of Minnesota. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter was an English major and went to the University of Minnesota for a year before switching to the private college of Brandeis University. He explains his rationale for becoming a rabbi and recounts his experiences at the Hebrew Union College Jewish Institute of New York. He describes his first rabbinical jobs in Huntington, New York ; Santa Ana, California ; Burlingame, California ; Ames, Iowa ; and Minneapolis, Minnesota. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter touches on how he arrived back in Lexington later in life primarily because he found a congregation—Temple Adath Israel-- that shared his visions and values. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter touches on the leadership roles of a Reform temple and the programs offered for youth and adults. Lastly, he explains how being a rabbi influences his home life, and contrasts 21st century Jewish practices to those of the 20th. No transcript. All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. audio Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh220_jk049_wirtschafter_ohm.xml 2017oh220_jk049_wirtschafter_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh220_jk049_wirtschafter_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David Wirtschafter, March 30, 2017 Description An account of the resource Rabbi D. Wirtschafter is a religious family man, who was raised with three other children in 20th century United States. His father, Dr. Jonathan Wirtschafter, was a doctor and founder of the Ophthalmology Department at the University of Kentucky Medical School. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter describes what it was like to be a Jewish youth in Lexington in the 1970s and the family traditions that were celebrated within his household. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter explains Jewish terms and history for those unfamiliar, and describes how growing anti-Semitic viewpoints of non-Jewish people in 2016 have influenced the feelings of his congregants. He explains the discrimination that is becoming inexcusably normal in 21st century United States, especially following the 2016 United States presidential election. He elaborates on the need to help refugees and those in need during the current Syrian refugee crisis. In 1978, Rabbi D. Wirtschafter moved to Minneapolis when his father got a job at the University of Minnesota. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter was an English major and went to the University of Minnesota for a year before switching to the private college of Brandeis University. He explains his rationale for becoming a rabbi and recounts his experiences at the Hebrew Union College Jewish Institute of New York. He describes his first rabbinical jobs in Huntington, New York; Santa Ana, California; Burlingame, California; Ames, Iowa; and Minneapolis, Minnesota. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter touches on how he arrived back in Lexington later in life primarily because he found a congregation—Temple Adath Israel-- that shared his visions and values. Rabbi D. Wirtschafter touches on the leadership roles of a Reform temple and the programs offered for youth and adults. Lastly, he explains how being a rabbi influences his home life, and contrasts 21st century Jewish practices to those of the 20th. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh220_jk049 Subject The topic of the resource Families. Family histories. Genealogy Jewish families. Childhood Jewish children Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Lexington (Ky.) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. Jewish leadership Rabbis Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/6691667c168e64aede94ea7cf6188539.png ef0efa00a48fd041ffacf12bf935da0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Hannah Newberry Samantha Winslett Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Robin Michler Interview Keyword Kentucky Native Café Michler's Florist, Greenhouses & Garden Design Be'er Sheva (Israel) Racism Race discrimination. Race relations Discrimination. Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Holidays. OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh218_jk048 Interview with Robin Michler, March 29, 2017 2017oh218_jk048 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) University of Kentucky Lexington (Ky.) Entrepreneurship Families. Family histories. Jewish businesspeople Jewish families. Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Jewish children Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) College students--Religious life Kentucky Native Café Michler's Florist, Greenhouses &amp ; Garden Design Be'er Sheva (Israel) Racism Race discrimination. Race relations Discrimination. Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Holidays. Robin Michler Hannah Newberry Samantha Winslett 2017oh218_jk048_michler_acc001.mp3 0 https://oralhistory.uky.edu/spokedbaudio/2017oh218_jk048_michler_acc001.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and family background All right. So, tell us a little about yourself. Michler provides some general information about himself. He identifies as an alumnus of the University of Kentucky class of 2008, and also as the proprietor of a fifth-generation family business, Michler's Florist, and a native born-Lexingtonian. Robin details his ancestral history. His paternal relatives and also the side which founded the business, the Michler side, immigrated to the U.S. as early as 1870. His mother's side changed their last name, upon immigrating to the U.S., from Katz to Kane. 1870 ; 1871 ; Family businesses ; Florists ; Kane family ; Katz family ; Kentucky Native Cafe ; Michler Family ; Robin Michler ; University of Kentucky Emigration and immigration. ; Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Immigrants--Kentucky ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish families. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.038, -84.495 17 Michler's Florist, Greenhouses &amp ; Garden Design 279 Responsibilities with Michler's Florist What is your, um, job at the family business? After a brief interruption for water, Michler explains the role he plays in the family business. He typically doesn't do the work of a florist, except in emergency situations. Rather he does more executive duties. He explains that they are one of the few modern floristries to still have their own greenhouses and grow their own flowers. They have also added on a café and beer garden in order to capitalize on their location in a college town. Beer gardens ; Business management ; Cafes ; Classical floristry ; College towns ; Contemporary floristry ; Family businesses ; Florists ; Gardening ; Greenhouses ; Kentucky Native Café ; Landscaping Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish families. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.038, -84.497 17 Michler's Florist, Greenhouses &amp ; Garden Design 438 Early life and schooling in Lexington, Kentucky in the 1990s Can you describe your childhood and what it was like growing up? Michler spent much of his early years bouncing around from school to school. His parents were trying to find a school where he could succeed but Michler states that it was never the school but his own opposition to doing any work in middle school that caused him to fail out of so many options. His parents' house was on Maxwell Street near the family business and near the University of Kentucky, which he says made for a cool place to grow up as a kid. Bryan Station High School ; Henry Clay High School ; Homeschooling ; Maxwell Elementary School ; Maxwell Street ; Montessori schools Childhood ; Education--Kentucky ; Families. 38.016, -84.473 17 Henry Clay High School 532 Growing up in a nontraditional Jewish household How would you describe your parents' relationship to Judaism? Michler describes what it was like growing up with parents who were somewhat involved with the Jewish community yet without any strong religious convictions. He feels drawn to different traditions, stating that he enjoyed going to Hebrew school at Ohavay Zion Synagogue. His family would keep Kosher inside the house in order to host dinners for family and other members of the Jewish community, however they did not keep kosher when eating out. Summer camp was a staple for kids in the Jewish community, which he describes as being what he calls a &quot ; typical summer camp experience.&quot ; Central Christian Church ; Community ; Hebrew schools ; Jewish family ; Kosher food (see also Kashrut) ; Non-traditional ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Religious schools ; Shul ; Summer camps ; Zionism Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 37.998, -84.474 17 Ohavay Zion Synagogue http://www.ozs.org/ Ohavay Zion Synagogue website 930 Unity within the international Jewish community Did you ex--um--what is the most important aspect of your Judaism? Michler believes that community is one of the most important aspects of Judaism. It has allowed him to travel much of the world and still be able to find Jewish communities that share many values and cultural norms based off faith. Because Hebrew is the language used by most conservative synagogues, he doesn't have to worry about the language barrier to attend services in various foreign countries. Thus far, Michler has traveled to Germany, Holland, and Israel. Community ; Cultural norms ; Germany ; Hebrew ; Holland ; Israel ; Jewish traditions ; Judaism internationally ; New York ; Religious community ; Religious observance ; Russia ; Synagogues ; Travel ; Values ; West Virginia Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 31.386, 32.837 17 Israel 1079 Travels abroad in Germany and Israel in 2005 and 2007-2008 respectively What was your time abroad like? Michler spent a year abroad in Munich, Germany during his senior year of high school, 2002-2003. As a recipient of UK’s prestigious Heidelberg Scholarship, he spent his sophomore year at UK in Heidelberg, Germany. Because Germany had no separation of church and state, he had the opportunity to take many classes on religion. He enjoyed this first academic exposure to Jewish studies, even though he was a geography major. Anti-Americanism ; Geography ; Higher education ; Jewish studies ; Munich, Germany ; Scholarships ; Study abroad ; Tanach ; Travel ; University of Heidelberg ; University of Kentucky ; University of North Carolina Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; College students--Religious life ; Education, Higher ; Munich (Germany) 49.418, 8.665 17 Heidelberg University 1427 Student life at the University of Kentucky (UK), 2003-2008 Um, so you said you attended the University of Kentucky-- Michler describes his experience at the University of Kentucky, starting with a boring freshman year. He attributes this ennui to easy classes which he felt were trivial. Much of his time as an undergraduate was spent abroad, studying in Heidelberg, Germany his sophomore year and Israel his first semester of senior year. The only club he mentions participating in was an environmental club: Greenthumb. His social circle revolved around this club and most of his lasting friendships were made through it as well. Clubs ; Geography ; Greenthumb Club ; Seminars ; Study abroad ; University of Kentucky College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Social conditions ; Lexington (Ky.) ; University of Kentucky 38.030, -84.506 17 University of Kentucky https://www.uky.edu/sustainability/student-organizations Provides a description of UK Greenthumb 1681 Jewish life at the University of Kentucky (UK), 2003-2008 Can you tell us a little bit about your involvement in the Jewish community? Michler speaks about his involvement in various Jewish student organizations at UK as an alum. He focuses on his reviving of Hillel, an organization that helps bring together Jewish students, at UK. He describes how Hillel helps students connect with one another and celebrate traditional Jewish ceremonies and holidays together as they would do at home. Challahs ; Community ; Hillel ; Jewish holidays ; Jewish student groups ; Jewish traditions ; Jung and Judisch ; Minyan ; North Carolina ; Shabbat (also Shabbos, Sabbath) ; Shabbos dinners College students--Religious life ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.hillel.org/ Hillel International's website 2425 Jewish traditions and changes in the Jewish community Do you have any vivid memories of Jewish life or Jewish rituals? Michler speaks about his experiences observing various Jewish traditions. He describes some of the more intriguing traditions, such as the role of the gabbai, which is to assist in the running of synagogue services, particularly during holidays, associated with various Jewish holidays. He also discusses the current political climate of the North American Jewish community, particularly with respect to the slow adaptation of egalitarianism in many congregations. He is also noticing changes in the Lexington Jewish community, particularly at the University of Kentucky. More and more Jewish students seem to be coming from out of state and he believes this is because it is becoming more common for Jewish residents of Lexington and Louisville to go out of state for college. Demographics ; Egalitarianism ; Gabbai ; Gender roles ; Hebrew ; High holidays (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur) ; Israel ; Jewish rituals ; Shul ; Torah ; Yemenite College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Holidays. ; Jewish families. ; Jewish women ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 52.071, 4.239 17 The Hague, Den Haag 3034 Jewish community in Lexington and Israel during the early 2000s Um, so can you tell me a little bit more about how you think that the Lexington Jewish community is different than other Jewish communities, um, in the United States that you've been to and, I guess, uh, across the world too? Michler explains that a Jewish population's size in a given area impacts the way that Judaism is integrated into daily life. He explains that in places with large Jewish populations, such as Israel, religion is more likely to permeate every area of life. Alternatively, in places such as Lexington, Jewish life may orient itself largely around Hebrew schools or synagogues. Community ; Culture ; Differences ; International ; Israel ; Jewish religion ; Lexington, Kentucky ; Religious schools ; Synagogue Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 3175 Religious observance in Michler's family Um, how do you think that your Jewishness is different from your parents' Jewishness? Um, and do you think it's changed through the years? Michler discusses how his religious commitment differs from that of his family members, noting that while his siblings dropped out of Hebrew school, he adored it and continued to pursue greater understanding of Jewish practice. He recounts preparing for and celebrating his Bar Mitzvah. Michler also discusses his parents' interfaith marriage and how they first met in Lexington after his mother moved there from New York. Bar mitzvahs ; Family ; Family values ; Hebrew schools ; Interfaith family ; Interfaith marriages ; Jewish ; Jewish family life ; Jewish traditions ; Marriage ; Observance ; Shabbat (also Shabbos, Sabbath) ; Siblings ; Traditions Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 3514 Jewish life in Lexington Um, okay. And so you grew up in Lexington. So how do you think that that--growing up and living here, um, as an adult, has affected your relationship with Judaism? Michler explains that the Lexington Jewish community is both welcoming and diverse. He discusses his marriage to Penina Goldstein and how her family is one of the more observant Jewish families in Lexington. He explains that he wants to raise his own children in a &quot ; more Jewish household&quot ; than the one in which he was raised. Hebrew schools ; Jewish traditions ; Judaism ; Lexington, Kentucky ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Penina Goldstein Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 37.998, -84.474 17 Ohavay Zion Synagogue http://www.ozs.org/ Ohavay Zion Synagogue's website 3646 Michler's Florist and Kentucky Native Cafe So you own Michler's Florist and Beer Garden and Café. Correct? Michler discusses his businesses, Michler's Florist and the Kentucky Native Cafe. He explains some of his business partnerships, and also his attempt to provide consistent, quality food and flowers for his customers. He acknowledges Reed Valley Orchard as a business partner that helps him provide local food to his customers. Beer ; Family businesses ; Floristry ; Food ; Imported ; Kentucky Native Cafe ; Local ; Michler's Florist ; Produce Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish families. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.291100, -84.341487 17 Reed Valley Orchard 3919 Business inspiration and execution So what inspired you to open up the café and beer garden? Michler explains that through his Kentucky Native Cafe he was able to blend the beer social scene with a family-friendly environment. He notes the dirt pile in particular, where kids get to play. He explains how the demographics of his clientele change throughout the day, from families earlier in the day to young adults in the evenings. Beer ; Beer gardens ; Children ; Community ; Demographics ; Family ; Kentucky Native Cafe ; Kids ; Local businesses ; Social scenes Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.038308, -84.494569 17 Kentucky Native Cafe 4252 Jewish observance and business practices Um, d, do you think that Michler's or your café helped you connect to other Jews in the community, or, or not? Michler explains how his cafe offers an un-announced kosher menu, noting that he offers dairy meals. He also details that in the busy schedule of the Kentucky Native Cafe, he is rarely able to keep the Sabbath, explaining how his work-life balance varies throughout the year. Businesses ; Community ; Competing values ; Dairy meals ; Kosher food (see also Kashrut) ; Schedules ; Shabbat (also Shabbos, Sabbath) ; Work-life balance Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; Worship (Judaism) 17 4442 The challenges of running a seasonal business What is it like only working for a season, instead of the full year? Michler explains his schedule and how it varies throughout the year. He also discusses his love of projects and his commitment to continually improving the business. Beer gardens ; Building businesses ; Florists ; Jewish businesses ; Kentucky Native Cafe ; Management ; Seasons ; Work-life balance Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 17 4669 Michler's wife, Penina, and her work in special education Is your wife involved in the business at all? Michler explains that his wife has a Masters degree and operates her own business as a consultant for parents of autistic children. He shares that she goes into their homes to help them fix unhealthy dynamics and incorporate better parenting practices. He also explains how sometimes parents of autistic children need help in order to meet their children's needs. Family consulting ; Jewish businesses ; Jobs ; Parenting ; Verbal behavior consulting ; Wife Autism. ; Education--Kentucky ; Employment--Kentucky ; Special education. 17 4753 Business during busy holidays Um, what's your fondest memory of the business? Michler discusses particularly exciting and meaningful times of the year for his business, including Valentine's Day, Oktoberfest, and Sundays. He details how families come to the cafe and children get messy in the dirt pile. He also describes some of the challenges and adrenaline involved in running a business during busy holidays. Businesses ; Kentucky Native Cafe ; Memories ; Michler's Florist ; Oktoberfest ; Seasonal ; Valentine's Day Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.038, -84.497 17 Michler's Florist 4919 Culture and history of Be'er Sheva Um, is there anything else you want to talk about, anything that we haven't touched on? Michler explains that he wrote his senior research thesis on the planning of Be'er Sheva in Israel. Be'er Sheva was planned by the government in stages, resulting in an eclectic area where few actually bought houses. Be'er Sheva ; Ben Gurion University ; City planning ; Geography ; History ; Neighborhoods ; Senior research thesis ; Study abroad Beersheba (Israel) ; Israel. 31.258889, 34.799708 17 Be'er Sheva http://in.bgu.ac.il/en/Pages/default.aspx The official website of Ben Gurion University 5230 Racism and political correctness in Israel and America Um, um, and, you know, you also learned--uh, I think I got a, uh, an early primer in, in, uh, a society and a culture that, uh, doesn't follow political correctness in terms of like, uh, you're not supposed to say racist things out loud, whether you think them or not. Michler explains that during his time in Israel, he was exposed to blatantly racist rhetoric that was not acceptable in the United States at that time. He also notes that those kinds of racist statements have become more socially acceptable today in the United States, after the 2016 presidential election. Comparisons ; Cultures ; Israel ; Political correctness ; United States Race discrimination. ; Race relations ; Racism 17 5352 Attempts to integrate Be'er Sheva You mentioned that a lot of the neighborhoods in Be'er Sheva were built with a lot of social baggage. What did you mean by that? Michler explains how Europeans in Tel Aviv attempted to plan Be'er Sheva and use it to integrate diverse immigrants from European and Muslim-majority countries. He recounts various government attempts to integrate different people groups, including the attempt to organize a neighborhood around a movie theater and the attempt to eliminate cars from the neighborhood. Be'er Sheva ; Communities ; Community ; Cultures ; Government ; History ; Immigrants ; Integration ; Neighborhoods ; Racism Beersheba (Israel) ; Israel. 31.258889, 34.799708 17 Be'er Sheva 5531 Zionism and antagonism in Israel Um, can I ask what your opinion is on Israel and Zionism? Michler explains how he first understood the appeal of Zionism after encountering antagonism and poverty in Israel. He recounts a situation in which his Muslim roommates were antagonistic toward him and ultimately he moved out. Be'er Sheva ; Dorms ; Housing ; Jewish friends ; Muslims ; Racism ; Study abroad ; Zionism Discrimination. ; Israel. 17 5738 Changes in U.S. discourse after the 2016 presidential election You mentioned that you were much more likely to face anti-Americanism than anti-Semitism. Did you personally experience any anti-Americanism? Michler explains that it is difficult to create a democratic Jewish state when many of the citizens are Muslim rather than Jewish. He also recounts the anti-Americanism he encountered while he was in Germany, remembering when an angry student assaulted him in the cafeteria. Michler then notes that &quot ; something has changed,&quot ; in the United States, and that antagonistic rhetoric is now more socially acceptable in America. He notes the dangers of the fact that bullying behaviors are now associated with &quot ; telling it as it is,&quot ; and expresses concern over the lack of civil discourse. American ; Anti-Americanism ; Bullying ; Democratic ; Heidelburg ; Intolerance ; Iraq War ; Jewish ; Jewish state ; Muslim Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. 49.410278, 8.706389 17 Heidelberg University interview Robin Michler, owner of Kentucky Native Café in Lexington, discusses his experiences as a businessman, international traveler, and Jewish man. He recounts how his maternal family changed their name from Katz to Kane upon their immigration to the U.S. Although his parents were less observant, Michler explains that his family nevertheless ensured he received education through Hebrew school and engagement with the Lexington Jewish community. Michler recounts his undergraduate career at the University of Kentucky, expressing annoyance at the lack of academic challenge in freshmen classes. He shares his later involvement in UK Hillel, recounting how he was hired by the University of Kentucky to revitalize the Jewish student organization on the UK campus. He also relays his extensive travel experiences in both Israel and Germany, which influenced his personal and political beliefs. Touching on Zionism, roommate situations, and cultural tensions, Michler explains how his experiences with people in Germany and Israel expanded his understanding of ethnic conflict and also connected him to the broader, international Jewish community. He also discusses anti-Americanism, cultural differences between Israel and the United States, and history. He gives special attention to the Israeli government’s attempts to re-integrate Be’er Sheva. Acknowledging the rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric post-2016, Michler expresses concern over the growing antagonism in America. Michler also recounts how, in later life, he expanded his family’s greenhouse, opening a new café and beer garden. He discusses the challenges of observing his religious practices and running a successful local business, as well as the joys of Jewish culture and community. He shares some of his favorite aspects of his business, noting both its kosher menu and its family-friendly atmosphere. No transcript. All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. audio Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh218_jk048_michler_ohm.xml 2017oh218_jk048_michler_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh218_jk048_michler_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Robin Michler, March 29, 2017 Description An account of the resource Robin Michler, owner of Kentucky Native Café in Lexington, discusses his experiences as a businessman, international traveler, and Jewish man. He recounts how his maternal family changed their name from Katz to Kane upon their immigration to the U.S. Although his parents were less observant, Michler explains that his family nevertheless ensured he received education through Hebrew school and engagement with the Lexington Jewish community. Michler recounts his undergraduate career at the University of Kentucky, expressing annoyance at the lack of academic challenge in freshmen classes. He shares his later involvement in UK Hillel, recounting how he was hired by the University of Kentucky to revitalize the Jewish student organization on the UK campus. He also relays his extensive travel experiences in both Israel and Germany, which influenced his personal and political beliefs. Touching on Zionism, roommate situations, and cultural tensions, Michler explains how his experiences with people in Germany and Israel expanded his understanding of ethnic conflict and also connected him to the broader, international Jewish community. He also discusses anti-Americanism, cultural differences between Israel and the United States, and history. He gives special attention to the Israeli government’s attempts to re-integrate Be’er Sheva. Acknowledging the rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric post-2016, Michler expresses concern over the growing antagonism in America. Michler also recounts how, in later life, he expanded his family’s greenhouse, opening a new café and beer garden. He discusses the challenges of observing his religious practices and running a successful local business, as well as the joys of Jewish culture and community. He shares some of his favorite aspects of his business, noting both its kosher menu and its family-friendly atmosphere. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh218_jk048 Subject The topic of the resource University of Kentucky Lexington (Ky.) Entrepreneurship Families. Family histories. Jewish businesspeople Jewish families. Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Jewish children Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) College students--Religious life Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/ebef09588654ae8be16fa46295decfa1.png ef0efa00a48fd041ffacf12bf935da0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Matthew Bell Saisindhu Marella Marisa Varone Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Elizabeth Crane Interview Keyword Emigration and immigration. Genealogy Education, Higher University of Georgia College students--Social conditions Dating (Social customs) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh217_jk047 Interview with Elizabeth Crane, March 24, 2017 2017oh217_jk047 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Families. Jewish families. Jewish children Childhood Education--Kentucky Family histories. Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Children's theater. Dietitians. Marriage Child rearing Emigration and immigration. Genealogy Education, Higher University of Georgia College students--Social conditions Dating (Social customs) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Elizabeth Crane Matthew Bell Saisindhu Marella Marisa Varone 2017oh217_jk047_crane_acc001.mp3 0 https://oralhistory.uky.edu/spokedbaudio/2017oh217_jk047_crane_acc001.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction and family background Hello, our names are Saisindhu Marella, Marisa Varone, and Matt Bell. Interviewer Saisindhu Marella begins by prompting interviewee Elizabeth Crane to share a brief summary of her life thus far. Crane goes on to give a brief description of her family. She discusses how little she knows about the specifics of her family origins, especially with respect to her father's family. Crane also speaks about her parents and their occupations in the fields of gastroenterology and statistics. Anne Banks ; Charleston (S.C.) ; Dietetics ; Ellis Island (N.Y.) ; Grandparents ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Mark Bronner ; Miami Beach (Fla.) ; Missoula Children's Theatre ; Mount Pleasant (S.C.) ; University of Georgia ; Virginia Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants ; Jewish families. 32.786, -79.876 17 Mount Pleasant (S.C.) https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/catalog/xt73ff3m048s Interview with Mark Bronner, Elizabeth Crane's father 225 Ancestry and family tree Um, Beth, from Janice's interview with your father, I know that your great-grandfather Nat Levy originally had his last name changed when he was coming from Russia to the U.S. Crane recounts an anecdote about her family's origins in the United States, where her great-grandfather accidentally changed his last name upon arriving. She goes on to describe her grandparents, siblings, and step-siblings, as well as their respective occupations. Ellis Island (N.Y.) ; Grandparents ; Siblings ; Step-siblings Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants ; Jewish families. 17 527 Childhood experiences Um, tell me about your experiences growing up. Crane gives a brief description of her childhood, specifically the summer camp she and her siblings used to attend called Camp Thunderbird in Bemidji, Minnesota. Bemidji, Minnesota ; Cousins ; Family ; Girls' camps ; Summer camps ; Theater Bemidji (Minn.) ; Childhood ; Families. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Recreation 47.376, -94.906 17 Camp Thunderbird for Girls 730 Early education and extracurricular activities Um, as a child, where did you go to school, like elementary, middle, and high? Crane details how she moved schools very frequently in her youth because of ethnicity ratios in Louisville public schools, placement into advanced programs, and moving across town. She also speaks briefly about her most lasting friendships. She then recounts her childhood involvement in sports, as well as her initial love for theater, which stemmed from her involvement at the Jewish African American Christian Kentucky Youth Royale Program. Advanced programs ; Ballard High School ; Childhood friends ; Clubs ; Dunn Elementary School ; Ethnicity ; JACKY Royale ; Jewish African American Christian Kentucky Youth ; Jewish Community Center day camps ; Kammerer Middle School ; Karen Hunter ; Norton Elementary School ; Private schools ; Soccer ; Synagogues ; Tennis ; Theater ; Walden Elementary School Childhood ; Education--Kentucky ; Jewish children ; Recreation 38.286, -85.558 17 Tom Sawyer Park 925 Judaism in childhood Um, with activities that you were involved in, were you involved in anything in the JCC? Crane describes her involvement in the Louisville Jewish Community Center and the B'nai B'rith Youth Organization. She explains the influence of her parents and grandparents on her personal experiences as a Jew, especially in terms of holiday celebrations. She recalls fondly spending time with her cousins for the holidays. B'nai B'rith Youth Organization (BBYO) ; Bat mitzvahs ; Community ; Cousins ; Culture ; Faith ; Family ; Food ; Grandparents ; Hanukkah ; Hebrew ; Heritage ; High Holidays ; Holidays ; JACKY Royale ; Jewish ; Jewish background ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Lord's Prayer ; Ohavay Zion ; Passover ; Seder ; Services ; Shabbat dinners ; Shema ; Sunday school ; Temple Shalom ; Ten Commandments ; Tradition Families. ; Family histories. ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 38.225, -85.650 17 B'nai B'rith Youth Organization Louisville 1904 Higher education Okay, so we're going to move more on towards your like adult life. Crane explains the rationale behind her decision to attend the University of Georgia for her undergraduate degree in theatre. She then explains her decision to pursue another degree in dietetics. She earned this degree from the University of Kentucky in 2015, after completing some prerequisites at the University of Louisville. College search ; Colleges ; Degree ; Dietetics ; Education ; Performance ; Prerequisites ; Theater arts ; University of Georgia ; University of Kentucky ; University of Louisville College environment ; College students. ; Education, Higher ; Universities and colleges. 33.952, -83.375 17 University of Georgia Department of Theatre 2124 Undergraduate extracurricular involvement Um, what kind of student organizations were you involved in during undergrad? Crane explains how she was involved mainly with the theater organization at the University of Georgia, which consumed much of her time. She talks about pledging but not completing the joining process of a sorority, and how she instead worked as the house manager for the university. House managers ; Sororities ; Sorority ; Theater ; Working College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Employment. ; College students--Social conditions ; College students. ; Education, Higher ; Greek letter societies. ; Universities and colleges. ; University of Georgia 17 2188 Jewish identity at the University of Georgia Um, what kind of like Jewish student life was there at UGA, if there was any? Crane talks about how little she was involved in Jewish student life on campus at the University of Georgia. She recalls finding a temple where she attended High Holiday services, though she did not particularly like the rabbi, which caused her to somewhat lose her Jewish identity during that time. Colleges ; Community ; High Holiday services ; Hillel ; Jewish ; Jewish fraternities ; Jewish identity ; Rabbis ; Student life ; Temples College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; College students. ; Education, Higher ; Greek letter societies. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Universities and colleges. ; University of Georgia ; Worship (Judaism) 40.741, -73.989 17 University of Georgia Hillel House 2278 Professional career and career change Then, um, kind of going back towards your professional life after college. How did you begin your professional career after graduating all the schools you went to? Crane describes the process by which she got her first job in the theater world, with Missoula Children's Theater Company. She explains how much travelling she did with the company, both in and out of the United States. She recalls how her decision to settle down and start a family led her to ultimately switch careers. Crane then goes more in depth in her explanation of her career change to dietetics. Boston (Mass.) ; Careers ; Clinical ; Curves ; Eating disorders ; Home health ; Insurance ; Medicaid ; Missoula Children's Theater Company ; Monologues ; Musical theater ; Nutrition ; Nutritionists ; Rehabilitation facilities ; Science ; Theater conferences ; Trilogy Healthcare ; Weight ; Weight-loss coaches Children's theater. ; Dietitians. ; Employment ; Theater. 17 2622 Influence of Judaism on her career Kind of redirecting it back to like relating things to Judaism, do you think that your Judaism has affected any parts of your career or kind of influenced it, or your lifestyle even, after college? Crane explains how her knowledge of the Jewish faith has allowed her to help the people she works with, especially in terms of special food for High Holidays. Specifically, she mentions her work in a nursing home and ensuring that the Jewish residents received traditional foods of honey and apples on Rosh Hashanah. Careers ; Food ; High Holidays ; Jewish community ; Kosher ; Rosh Hashanah Dietitians. ; Employment ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 2703 The impact of Judaism on assimilation and dating And, okay, uh, yeah we'll kind of go towards, like--do you think assimilation has kind of affected your religious practices throughout your life? Crane discusses her move to Lexington and the transition from living in one place to another. She also mentions the initial meeting of her now-husband. She then recounts her past romantic relationships and the demographics of her dating history not being entirely made up of people of the same race as her. She tells the story of her main experience with anti-Semitism while dating. Anti-Semitic ; Assimilation ; Community ; Conservative ; Dating ; Interracial dating ; Lexington ; Moving ; Non-Jewish partners ; Reform Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Dating (Social customs) ; Discrimination. ; Interethnic dating ; Interfaith dating ; Jewish women--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Race relations 38.030, -84.504 17 University of Kentucky 3099 Relationship with her husband Okay. So now to talk about your husband. Uh, where’s he from? Where did you two meet? Crane tells the story of how she and her husband met once she moved to Lexington, explaining her first few interactions with him at work and online, then recounting her first few dates with him. She talks about how she eventually decided that he was the one for her when he gave her a sandcastle building kit to give to her nephews when she went on vacation. Businesses ; Local businesses ; Online dating ; Village Host ; Waitresses Dating (Social customs) ; Jewish women--Kentucky--Lexington 38.040, -84.491 17 Former location of Village Host 3441 Judaism's influence on her wedding and marriage Um, towards like your wedding. Do you feel like--did Judaism play a role in the actual ceremony? Crane describes her wedding and the pre-existing societal expectations of Christian-centric ceremonies. She talks about the struggle she faced with incorporating her religion into the ceremony and celebration through meals provided and the order and type of ceremonial events associated with Judaism. Following this, she explains the impact marriage and motherhood has had on her in respect to her daughter and how she wishes to raise her with a stronger religious upbringing. Chuppah ; Community ; Goyim ; Hebrew names ; High Holiday services ; Jewish preschools ; Jewish traditions ; Jewish weddings ; Ketubah ; Kittel ; Kosher ; New generations ; Parenting ; Passing on beliefs ; Preschools ; Purim ; Rabbis ; Raising kids ; Reading Hebrew ; Shabbat ; Small towns ; Synagogues ; Values Child rearing ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Marriage ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 37.997. -84.471 17 Gan Shalom 3929 Jewish education for her children And, okay, um, kind of going to--towards education for your daughter. Crane expresses her wish to give her daughter an early childhood Jewish education. She enrolled her in Gan Shalom, the preschool program at Ohavay Zion Synagogue, to help her gain a Jewish foundation. She then explains her family's recent involvement in the Jewish community in Lexington as her daughter has been growing up and introduced to the culture and practices through events and festivals. Board of Gan Shalom ; Building community ; Daycare ; Earl Levy ; Gan Shalom ; Involvement ; Jewish literature ; Jewish roots ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Passover ; PJ Library Organization ; Preschools ; Rabbis ; Shabbat ; Sunday school ; Synagogues Childhood ; Education--Kentucky ; Families. ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 37.998, -84.471 17 Ohavay Zion Synagogue 4155 Relationship to Rabbi Smolkin You mentioned him a little bit earlier. And you got very excited. Um, what is your relationship to your rabbi like right now? And how does--what does that mean to you? Crane explains her liking and veneration for her rabbi at Ohavy Zion Synagogue, Rabbi Smolkin, describing how he has helped her with understanding her faith as she transitioned to the Conservative denomination from previously being in the Reform denomination. She also further recounts some stories about how he explained things to anyone who was curious, like why eating a kosher diet includes not eating chicken and drinking milk, and the specific practices in the synagogue she attends concerning women's involvement. Bris ; Chicken ; Egalitarian synagogues ; Gender ; Hebrew names ; Kashrut ; Kippah ; Kosher ; Reform ; Tallis ; Traditional ; women Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jewish women--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Rabbis ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.ozs.org/rabbi/ Rabbi Smolkin's information web page at Ohavay Zion Synagogue 4422 Judaism in adulthood--Comparing the Louisville and Lexington communities Um, so with that question we’re going to kind of transition into more of Judaism in your adult life. Crane describes what she hopes to gain from her faith in the near future, explaining that she wants to give her daughter a faith-filled upbringing because she feels it is very valuable. She also expresses regret that she was not raised in a similar manner to the way she wishes to raise her daughter. Crane then explains the differences in the two communities she has been a part of in Kentucky--currently living in Lexington and being raised in Louisville--and the specific forms of Judaism she practiced, starting with Reform traditions and changing over to more Conservative traditions. Commemorating candles ; Conservative ; Divides ; Generations ; Grandfathers ; Grandmothers ; Grandparents ; Great grandparents ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Lighting candles ; Loss of culture ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Orthodox ; Politics ; Reform ; Relaxed practices ; Summer camps ; Values ; Weakening Child rearing ; Families. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 38.225, -85.650 17 Jewish Community Center, Louisville (Ky.) 4649 Transition of religious affiliation Um, so we talked earlier about your transition from being, uh, raised Reform Jewish to now a member of OZS. Crane describes her transition from Reform Judaism to Conservative Judaism while also explaining her struggle with figuring out the differences in customs and practices. Bimah ; Conservative ; Differences ; Kippah ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Prayers ; Reform ; Religious services ; Singing ; Tallis ; Torah Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.ozs.org/history-2/ History of Ohavay Zion Synagogue of Lexington 4761 Anti-Semitism and the perception of Judaism Um, so, um, so mostly when talking about, um--when we were talking about, uh, you--when you tell people you’re Jewish, and they might be surprised or whatever. Crane recounts the small exposure to anti-Semitism she had experienced growing up ; in particular, there was a specific event with a past boyfriend's mother's feelings towards Jewish people. She also mentions the painting of anti-Semitic symbols on her childhood synagogue during a high holiday service and her feelings at the time compared to how she perceives it now. She describes people finding out about her faith and the community's perception of her once they are aware. She talks about the hesitant nature of those who teach or talk about the Holocaust in schools or at museums. Bomb threats ; Christians ; Democracy ; Democrats ; Experiencing hate ; Fears ; Holocaust ; Holocaust museums ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Politics ; Positive interactions ; Public ; Superiority ; Swastika ; Temple Shalom Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. ; Jewish women--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. 38.223, -85.609 17 Temple Shalom 5150 Jewish identity and values So, uh, this is a very broad question but, uh, how would you describe your Jewish identity? Crane explains her identity as a Jewish person, connecting it first to food. She also connects it to her roots ; Jewish immigrants that brought their culture to America. Also she praises those who have strong biblical beliefs, since she currently only sees herself as a cultural Jew but wishes to one day grow to be a more religious Jew. Crane then describes how her roots with her faith and family history reflect on her everyday life while raising her daughter. &quot ; Chicken Hyman&quot ; ; Bagels and lox ; Bar mitzvahs ; Bat mitzvahs ; Brunches ; Connectivity ; Cultural Jews ; Estranged family ; Family values ; Food ; Founding synagogue ; German immigrants ; Hyman Levy ; Jewish values ; Matriarchs ; Russian immigrants ; Soul food ; Ten Commandments ; Traditions Childhood ; Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Immigrants ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 5475 Impact of Zionism and Israel Um, so, kind of switching gears again, so, um, what role has Israel or Zionism played in your life? Crane recounts a 5 week high school trip to Israel as a junior, with the B'nai Brith Youth Organization funding it. She then explains the connection she felt when she was there, as well as her feelings toward the issues arising around Israel's existence politically, and her belief that everyone can find their own place and live in peace. &quot ; Melting pot&quot ; ; B'nai Brith Youth Organization (BBYO) ; Connections ; Divide in Israel ; Family in Israel ; Jerusalem ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish graveyards ; Moving to Israel ; Safe havens ; Safety ; Travel ; Wailing Wall ; Western Wall Family histories. ; Genealogy ; Israel. ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion 31.7767, 35.2345 17 Western Wall, Jerusalem 5690 Closing remarks and additions Um, do you guys have any other questions? Crane ends the interview by discussing Southern culture, its connection to her Jewish identity, and the fear she and others may experience in the South. She also goes on to mention the pride she feels for her identity as a Jewish person and how much she likes being who she is. Bomb threats ; Fears ; Growing up Jewish ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Kentucky ; Perceptions ; Southern culture ; Temples Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 interview Elizabeth Bronner Crane was born on September 14, 1984 in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, and was raised briefly in Charleston, SC though she later moved to Louisville, Kentucky. Due to the name change of her paternal grandfather at Ellis Island, she has been unable to trace much of her extended family history. Her mother, Anne Banks, works as a statistician in Louisville, and her father, Mark Bronner, is a gastroenterologist. Both parents were raised in Orthodox Judaism, but chose to raise their children Reform Judaism. Mrs. Crane recalls going to Sunday school, attending High Holiday services, and having Shabbat dinners on Fridays, though she says those events became less prevalent with time. After graduating from Ballard High School in Louisville in 2002, Mrs. Crane went on to receive her undergraduate degree in theatre from the University of Georgia in 2006. She traveled with a children’s theatre company from 2006 to 2009, but decided to change career paths and re-enrolled in school in 2010. She attended the University of Louisville for one year, then transferred to the University of Kentucky, eventually earning a degree in dietetics in 2015. She now works with Trilogy Healthcare. While studying in Lexington, she met her husband--the first Jewish man she had ever dated--and they were married three years later, in October 2015. Mrs. Crane now attends her husband’s Conservative synagogue, Ohavay Zion, and is open about her struggles to adapt from Reform to Conservative Jewish traditions, largely crediting Ohavay Zion’s Rabbi Smolkin for her ability to feel at home in Conservative Judaism. She discusses the threat of anti-Semitism in the modern world, and though having few personal encounters with it, she describes the effects of anti-Semitism on her family. Mrs. Crane explains the cultural aspects of her Jewish identity and how it affects the way she plans to raise her children. No transcript. All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. audio Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh217_jk047_crane_ohm.xml 2017oh217_jk047_crane_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh217_jk047_crane_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Elizabeth Crane, March 24, 2017 Description An account of the resource Elizabeth Bronner Crane was born on September 14, 1984 in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina, and was raised briefly in Charleston, SC though she later moved to Louisville, Kentucky. Due to the name change of her paternal grandfather at Ellis Island, she has been unable to trace much of her extended family history. Her mother, Anne Banks, works as a statistician in Louisville, and her father, Mark Bronner, is a gastroenterologist. Both parents were raised in Orthodox Judaism, but chose to raise their children Reform Judaism. Mrs. Crane recalls going to Sunday school, attending High Holiday services, and having Shabbat dinners on Fridays, though she says those events became less prevalent with time. After graduating from Ballard High School in Louisville in 2002, Mrs. Crane went on to receive her undergraduate degree in theatre from the University of Georgia in 2006. She traveled with a children’s theatre company from 2006 to 2009, but decided to change career paths and re-enrolled in school in 2010. She attended the University of Louisville for one year, then transferred to the University of Kentucky, eventually earning a degree in dietetics in 2015. She now works with Trilogy Healthcare. While studying in Lexington, she met her husband--the first Jewish man she had ever dated--and they were married three years later, in October 2015. Mrs. Crane now attends her husband’s Conservative synagogue, Ohavay Zion, and is open about her struggles to adapt from Reform to Conservative Jewish traditions, largely crediting Ohavay Zion’s Rabbi Smolkin for her ability to feel at home in Conservative Judaism. She discusses the threat of anti-Semitism in the modern world, and though having few personal encounters with it, she describes the effects of anti-Semitism on her family. Mrs. Crane explains the cultural aspects of her Jewish identity and how it affects the way she plans to raise her children. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh217_jk047 Subject The topic of the resource Families. Jewish families. Jewish children Childhood Education--Kentucky Family histories. Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Children's theater. Dietitians. Marriage Child rearing Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/eb38955819342f8e096b3ebe1f1a73e4.png ef0efa00a48fd041ffacf12bf935da0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Lyndsey Armes Ruthie Sangster Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Michael Grossman Interview Keyword Discrimination. Antisemitism Anti-Semitism Universities and colleges. Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh216_jk046 Interview with Michael Grossman, March 24, 2017 2017oh216_jk046 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Families. Family histories. Genealogy Immigrants Jewish children Jewish families. Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Childhood Lawyers Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington Lexington (Ky.) Discrimination. Antisemitism Anti-Semitism Universities and colleges. Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Michael Grossman Lyndsey Armes Ruthie Sangster 2017oh216_jk046_grossman_acc001.mp3 0 https://oralhistory.uky.edu/spokedbaudio/2017oh216_jk046_grossman_acc001.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction Okay. So I'll start. A short segment in which simple introductions are made and Michael Grossman gives a quick summary of his life up until he moved to Kentucky. California ; Companies ; Company ; Personal background ; Personal history ; UC Santa Barbara ; University ; University of California at Santa Barbara Universities and colleges. 34.414, -119.849 17 University of California at Santa Barbara 169 Family background Um, so would you tell us just a little bit about your immediate family. Um, what were your parents' names and occupations? First, Grossman discusses his family's past and how his parents and grandparents ended up in America. Then, he talks about growing up in a Jewish community in Los Angeles, California Fathers ; Jewish neighborhoods ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Mothers ; Russia ; Schools ; Sisters Childhood ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Genealogy ; Holidays. ; Immigrants ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 34.0820, -118.359 17 Fairfax High School, Los Angeles, California 530 Childhood Jewish community involvement So it sounds like you lived in a very heavily Jewish community. How involved were you and your family in that community, and how did that help shape your Jewish identity? Grossman discusses his involvement in the Jewish community from grade school up through his undergraduate years, and how his faith developed over time. Bar mitzvahs ; Community ; Jewish awakening ; Synagogues ; Tulane University ; UC Santa Barbara ; University of California at Santa Barbara Childhood ; Families. ; Family histories. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 899 Post-grad and Notre Dame University So what drove you to, uh, want to pursue law and going to law school at Notre Dame? After graduating from the University of California at Santa Barbara, Grossman traveled with his wife before attending the most prominent Catholic university in the country, Notre Dame. Catholic ; Law schools ; Notre Dame University ; South Bend ; UC Santa Barbara ; University of California at Santa Barbara College attendance ; College environment ; College students. ; Universities and colleges. 41.705, -86.235 17 University of Notre Dame 1169 Career and life in Lexington, Kentucky and South Bend, Indiana Um, so once you graduated law school, how did you, um, transition to working for Clark Material Handling? Starting with a conversation about working for Clark Material Handling as a lawyer, Grossman then talks about having children in South Bend and becoming more involved in the Jewish community. Clark Material Handling ; South Bend (Ind.) ; Synagogues ; Temples Families. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lawyers 17 1396 Family's religion and conversion Um, so, kind of going back a little bit, uh, focusing in on your, uh, marriage, and then, I guess, dating before that. Um, did you focus on wanting, um, to be in a relationship with another Jew, or, like, how did that play a role? Grossman discusses the challenges he and his wife faced in trying to get married as a mixed faith couple, and how they raised their kids. He also mentions his wife's conversion to Judaism and his children's current lives. Conversion ; Kids ; Marriage ; Mikvah ; Mixed faith couples ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Rabbis Families. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 37.998, -84.471 17 Ohavay Zion Synagogue 1876 Becoming a leader in the Jewish community So, kind of coming back to Lexington, here, um, would you tell us just a little bit about, um, kind of your social network? In this segment, Grossman explains how he became the president of the Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass, and the difficulties of finding leadership in the Jewish community. Community organizing ; Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass ; Presidents ; Social action Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 https://www.jewishlexington.org Official website for the Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass. 2270 Anti-Semitism in Lexington Um, as far as coming to Lexington, and with it being such a smaller Jewish population, have you experienced any anti-Semitism here, that you would consider? Grossman speaks of his experiences with anti-Semitism within Lexington and how the community has been relatively free of discrimination. Although, he does touch on the fact that the current political climate has increased the amount of anti-Semitism slightly within the community, but not towards himself. Anti-Semitic ; Henry Clay High School ; Political climate ; Swastika Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion and politics 38.016178, -84.468991 17 Henry Clay High School 2359 Ukeles Report That's great. Um, shifting back to more of your time with the Federation, Dr. Jan told us a little bit about the Ukeles report. Grossman speaks of the Ukeles Report in depth, including what it is and what it was designed for. He talks about how it is a report created by Dr. Ukeles to show what the Jewish communities within central Kentucky need to do together to more efficiently save and allocate funds together. Jewish community ; Jewish Heritage Fund ; Ukeles ; Ukeles Report Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. 17 2607 Experience as President of the Jewish Federation Um, on top of that report, what were some of your greatest trials, triumphs, um, anything like that, during your time as president? Grossman speaks of his experience as the president of the Jewish Federation and his trials and triumphs through the Federation. He also speaks of its impact on the Jewish community and his own Jewish identity. Jewish community ; Jewish Federation ; Jewish identity ; President of the Jewish Federation ; Terrorism Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. 17 2860 Personal experiences being Jewish in different communities Um, looking more towards the future, what do you think some of the greatest trials for the Lexington Jewish community are in the next five to ten years? Grossman speaks of the different trials of Lexington's Jewish community and on the differences in his experiences within the Jewish communities of different areas he's lived in. He also talks about the impact the different Jewish communities had on his own personal Jewish identity. Jewish communities ; Jewish community ; Jewish community in Lexington ; Kosher ; Ukeles Report Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) 17 3280 Lexington Jewish community and connection with Louisville Jewish community Um, so, just out of curiosity, for us--the two interviews that we listened to prior to this, um, were people who were involved in the Louisville Jewish community. Grossman speaks on the ties between the Lexington and Louisville Jewish communities and the various Jewish organizations within Lexington. He also speaks of the potential for a physical Jewish community center being created in Lexington. B'nai B'rith ; Camp Shalom ; Heritage Fund ; Jewish community ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass ; Lexington Jewish community ; Louisville Jewish community ; Signature Club ; Ukeles Report Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.) 37.997942, -84.480164 17 Camp Shalom, The Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass 3836 Judaism's impact on his life Um, so, um, kind of starting to close and get a little bit more general here. Um, we're kinda wondering, uh, how has your commitment to Jewish life influenced and shaped your attitudes and feelings towards Israel? Grossman speaks generally about Judaism's impact on his life. He also details his ties to Israel and gives thanks to the interviewers and for the opportunity to tell his story. Israel ; Jewishness ; Torah Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 interview Michael Grossman is a Jewish man who was raised in a Jewish community in Los Angeles, California. His family was not very religious growing up, but following the Six Day War in 1967, he became much more involved in his faith and Jewish organizational life. Grossman discusses his graduation from the University of California at Santa Barbara, and how he started dating his wife, who was not Jewish when they met. He talks about the challenges of being a mixed-faith couple, and the process of his wife’s eventual conversion. Grossman mentions his time at Notre Dame’s law school and his long career at Clark Material Handling. He also discusses raising his children Jewish, and how that strengthened his connection with the local Jewish communities in South Bend, Indiana. He talks about moving to Lexington, Kentucky for work, and the ways he became involved in this new community. Grossman details his time as the president of the Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass and many of the different things he accomplished in that role. He acknowledges the challenges he faced being the leader of one of one of the largest Jewish organizations in Lexington. No transcript. All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. audio Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh216_jk046_grossman_ohm.xml 2017oh216_jk046_grossman_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh216_jk046_grossman_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Michael Grossman, March 24, 2017 Description An account of the resource Michael Grossman is a Jewish man who was raised in a Jewish community in Los Angeles, California. His family was not very religious growing up, but following the Six Day War in 1967, he became much more involved in his faith and Jewish organizational life. Grossman discusses his graduation from the University of California at Santa Barbara, and how he started dating his wife, who was not Jewish when they met. He talks about the challenges of being a mixed-faith couple, and the process of his wife’s eventual conversion. Grossman mentions his time at Notre Dame’s law school and his long career at Clark Material Handling. He also discusses raising his children Jewish, and how that strengthened his connection with the local Jewish communities in South Bend, Indiana. He talks about moving to Lexington, Kentucky for work, and the ways he became involved in this new community. Grossman details his time as the president of the Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass and many of the different things he accomplished in that role. He acknowledges the challenges he faced being the leader of one of one of the largest Jewish organizations in Lexington. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh216_jk046 Subject The topic of the resource Families. Family histories. Genealogy Immigrants Jewish children Jewish families. Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Childhood Lawyers Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Lexington Lexington (Ky.) Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/eaca950c54245eea9f3401ef6db1e625.png ef0efa00a48fd041ffacf12bf935da0c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Katie Segal Jospeh Kingsbury Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Jeff Kaplan Interview Keyword The Parkette Subway restaurants Philadelphia (Pa.) Miami (Fla.) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh174_jk045 Interview with Jeff Kaplan, March 23, 2017 2017oh174_jk045 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Entrepreneurship Jewish businesspeople Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Families. Jewish children Jewish families. Childhood Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Education Lexington (Ky.) Restaurants Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. The Parkette Subway restaurants Philadelphia (Pa.) Miami (Fla.) Anti-Semitism Antisemitism Discrimination. Jeff Kaplan Katie Segal Jospeh Kingsbury 2017oh174_jk045_kaplan_acc001.mp3 0 https://oralhistory.uky.edu/spokedbaudio/2017oh174_jk045_kaplan_acc001.mp3 Other audio 0 Introduction Hello, our names are Katherine Anstern Segal and Joseph Kingsbury. We are students in WRD 112, spring 2017, Writing Jewish Kentucky. Jeffrey Kaplan was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in 1959 and grew up in Miami, Florida. In 1992, Kaplan began his career as a businessman and moved to Lexington, Kentucky. Interviews ; Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence ; Jewish Kentucky ; Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project ; Oral history 17 92 Family and early entrepreneurial experiences So tell us a little bit about your family background. Jeffrey Kaplan was born to Edward and Judith Kaplan in 1959 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. After the family moved to Miami, Florida, Kaplan helped his father run a small business despite his young age. He describes this aspect of his childhood as his first exposure to entrepreneurship, which would later define his adult career. Childhood ; Entrepreneurial spirit ; Family background ; Jewish traditions ; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Childhood ; Entrepreneurship ; Families. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Miami (Fla.) ; Philadelphia (Pa.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 39.952, -76.165 17 Philadelphia (Pa.) 277 Wife and children Um, we understand that you have a wife named Carol? While attending the University of South Florida in Tampa, Florida, Kaplan met his now-wife Carol, who is also Jewish. Carol originally worked as a speech pathologist, but later became a stay-at-home mother to their daughters Robin and Samantha. Robin, 28, works as a field consultant and Samantha, 22, recently graduated from the University of Eastern Kentucky. Chi Omega sorority ; Children ; Eastern Kentucky University ; Education ; Family ; Kappa Sigma fraternity ; Miami (Fla.) ; Miami, Florida ; Sign language interpretation ; Speech language pathologists ; Subway Corporate ; University of Kentucky Education ; Families. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; University of South Tampa 25.761, -80.191 17 Miami (Fla.) http://www.usf.edu/ University of South Tampa 556 Childhood in Philadelphia and Miami Where did you grow up? Could you describe your childhood, growing up, a little bit? Kaplan lived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania until age ten. During this period, he spent much of his time with other Jewish children in his neighborhood. One particular memory involves his childhood friend Debby, whom he &quot ; married&quot ; in a traditional ceremony. This involvement in the Jewish community continued after he moved to Miami, Florida, where he joined United Synagogue Youth. Carnival ; Childhood friends ; Miami (Fla.) ; Miami, Florida ; Philadelphia (Pa.) ; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ; Transitions ; United Synagogue Youth Childhood ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion 17 http://www.usy.org/ United Synagogue Youth 806 Growing up in a Jewish home It sounds like you all, even at a young age, knew your Jewish traditions were --did you grow up, uh, in a very Jewish and religious household? While Kaplan has made efforts as an adult to follow major Jewish traditions, his family did not practice during his childhood. However, he did receive a Hebrew school education. One of his teachers was a Holocaust survivor, and the retelling of those experiences helped to solidify Kaplan's pride in being a Jew. While his Jewish identity was not challenged, his wife and children had minor incidents involving anti-Semitism. (There is a significant digression about camping in this segment.) Hebrew schools ; High Holidays ; Holocaust ; Holocaust survivors ; Kosher homes ; Traditions Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Childhood ; Discrimination. ; Education ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 17 1423 Beginning of his career Alrighty. Well, I think I'll take over the next session, um, session of the interview. Kaplan got his college degree in education and intended to teach business classes to junior and secondary students. However, during his internship, he was too overwhelmed and decided to pursue other work. He went through multiple sales jobs with companies such as Publix, MasterCard, and Audio Visual Innovations. Eventually, though, he became possessed by an &quot ; entrepreneurial spirit&quot ; and, with the support of his wife, became a franchisee for Subway. Distributive Education Clubs of America ; Entrepreneurial spirit ; Food brokers ; Franchisees ; Grocery industry ; Internships ; Marketing and distributive education ; Scott Paper Company ; Subway restaurants ; University of South Florida Education ; Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 17 2148 Opening other franchises Alrighty. Well, uh -so you talked about Subway as one of your franchise businesses. Um, and I've heard that you may have had like one or two more, that you've actually opened. Um, could you tell us about those companies? Prior to owning The Parkette, Kaplan worked with a friend to open other businesses, such as the A Cut Ahead salon and Sweet n' Treats ice cream parlor. Both businesses, unfortunately, failed. Kaplan explains that he learned from his failures and that, to be successful, one must take risks. Following these business, he and his brother Randy began selling Vienna beef hot dogs, inspired by Mel's Hot Dogs stand in Miami, Florida. This led them to the purchase of The Parkette. Caretakers ; Catering ; Entrepreneurial spirit ; General contractors ; Hair businesses ; Hot dog stands ; Ice cream shops ; Mel's Hot Dogs ; Salons ; Subway restaurants ; The Parkette ; Vienna beef ; Winchester (Ky.) Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.031006, -84.453880 17 The Parkette 3012 The Parkette in Lexington Could you tell us a little bit more about the importance of the Parkette for--to Lexington, uh, such as like the business--to the other businesses in Lexington and like when it was open for the first time and when you took it over? Kaplan and his brother are the fifth set of owners of The Parkette in Lexington, Kentucky, which was originally operated by Joe Smiley. Smiley was not initially expected to succeed, but his first day of business saw unprecedented financial gains. Smiley's Parkette used the Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe, but was not allowed to use the name following a lawsuit by John Y. Brown in which he received a $45,000 settlement. Although The Parkette now uses a different fried chicken recipe, Kaplan and his brother saw just as much success on their opening day. City fathers ; Colonel Harland Sanders ; Colonel Sanders ; Joe Smiley ; Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) ; Lexington Herald Leader ; New Circle Road ; Opening day ; Re-opening ; Teletrace ; The Belt Line ; The Parkette Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 17 3848 Advice to future entrepreneurs If you had one piece of advice to give to a young business student like myself or a young business owner, what would it be? While visiting his brother at Washington University, Kaplan sat in on a business class wherein a professor said that &quot ; surrounding yourself with good quality people&quot ; guarantees success in business. Recalling his own experiences and those of past employees, Kaplan tells listeners that having a strong work ethic and respectful attitude ensures success. Business advice ; Business partners ; Entrepreneurial spirit ; Hiring process ; Secret to success ; Success in business ; Washington University in St. Louis ; Work ethic Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.648, -90.310 17 Washington University in St. Louis 4266 Dispute over fried chicken recipe One of the things that I found interesting was, um, you, uh, kinda had a dispute over whether you should keep lard in the recipe for your fried chicken. The Parkette's fried chicken recipe notoriously uses lard, which has been repeatedly challenged. Kaplan himself attempted to change the recipe and make it kosher, but all other cooking oils &quot ; failed&quot ; in customer taste tests. However, Kaplan believes the high quality taste of the chicken is worth not keeping it kosher. Cooking oil ; Fried chicken ; Kosher ; Quality ; Recipes ; Restaurant services ; Sysco Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Religion ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; Worship (Judaism) 17 4489 Jewish faith and business in Lexington Um, so kind of going forward with like your Jewish identity, um, with your family and in the Parkette business... Through The Parkette, Kaplan has connected with the Lexington community. The restaurant has provided funds and other donations to various events, which is an echo of his belief that one should treat others as one would like to be treated. Regarding his Jewish identity, Kaplan and his family attend the Ohavay Zion Synagogue, which is more conservative than the Reform temple, although his children did attend schooling there during their youth. Jewish community ; Jewish holidays ; Jewish services ; Jewish traditions ; Jewish values ; Ohavay Zion Synagogue ; Synagogue services Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.ozs.org/ Ohavay Zion Synagogue 4831 The Parkette and keeping kosher Um, there's one connection I wanted to make with the Parkette. Although The Parkette is not entirely kosher, some foods, such as the fish and onion rings, are suitable for Jewish customers. The restaurant also hosts events for the Jewish community, such as B'nai B'rith board meetings and certain fundraisers. B'nai B'rith ; Jewish community ; Jewish diet ; Jewish practices ; Kosher ; Outreach ; The Parkette Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; Worship (Judaism) 17 http://www.bnaibrith.org/ B'nai B'rith International 4953 Events at The Parkette Um, are there any events, in general, that you, um, have at the Parkette, for the entire community of Lexington, that you would want to talk about? The Parkette hosts events for the entire Lexington community, the most popular being &quot ; cruisings,&quot ; or what resembles a car show in the restaurant's parking lot. It also served the Fayette County police department and other emergency services for free following a string of city conflicts. Car shows ; Community events ; Cruisings ; Drive-ins ; Jewish community ; Lexington events Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Restaurants ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 17 5087 Different Jewish communities Um, he's covered almost everything. Um, how would you say, uh, the Jewish communities in the different places you've lived, such as like Miami, Philly, and Lexington, have differed? Kaplan remembers very little about his Jewish practices in Philadelphia, but recalls attending the Beth David Synagogue in Miami and being involved in United Synagogue Youth. When he moved to Lexington, Rabbi Sharon Cohen had recently taken over the services and the Lexington Jewish community was frequently described as &quot ; close-knit,&quot ; on which Kaplan agrees. He closes out the interview by saying that anyone is capable of being successful and not to consider him to be special or unique in his achievements. Business advice ; Community in Lexington ; Jewish childhood ; Jewish community ; Jewish services ; Jewish traditions ; Judaism ; Lexington, Kentucky ; Social life ; United Synagogue Youth Entrepreneurship ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Judaism. ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Religion ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; Worship (Judaism) 38.040, -84.503 17 Lexington (Ky.) https://jewishlexington.org/ The Jewish Federation of The Bluegrass website. interview In this interview, Jeffrey Kaplan recounts his life as a Jewish businessman in Lexington, Kentucky, from his mid-adult life to present day (in 2017). Beginning with his childhood, he describes how he grew up surrounded by other Jewish children and was educated in Judaism. During this time, Kaplan had several unique experiences that cemented his identity as a Jewish person, such as participating in an imaginative Jewish wedding ceremony as a child, which included a makeshift chuppah and stand-in rabbi. However, his parents provided knowledge beyond that of their faith as well. Kaplan’s father was a store-owner in Miami, Florida, during Kaplan’s childhood in the 1970s and Kaplan claims that his involvement with his father’s work inspired his own “entrepreneurial spirit” – and Kaplan’s eventual business pursuits. Kaplan married his college sweetheart, Carol, and they had two daughters, Robin and Samantha. Kaplan and his wife kept a traditional Jewish home, which included kashrut and Sabbath observance, which was more ritual observance than he had experienced during his childhood. In his later adult life, inspired by his father and supported by his wife, Kaplan decided to become a franchisee of Subway Corporate. This venture quickly developed into a full-fledged career and Kaplan later became the owner of the Parkette restaurant in Lexington, Kentucky, which is now locally renowned. Although he attributes much of his good character to his Jewish faith, Kaplan insists that determination and the acceptance of his own failures allowed him to become successful in business. Through his running of the Parkette and his involvement in the local Jewish community, he continues to serve members of the Lexington community. In conclusion, Jeffrey Kaplan advises listeners to pursue their own dreams and desires, just as he did. No transcript. All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. audio Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh174_jk045_kaplan_ohm.xml 2017oh174_jk045_kaplan_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh174_jk045_kaplan_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Jeff Kaplan, March 23, 2017 Description An account of the resource In this interview, Jeffrey Kaplan recounts his life as a Jewish businessman in Lexington, Kentucky, from his mid-adult life to present day (in 2017). Beginning with his childhood, he describes how he grew up surrounded by other Jewish children and was educated in Judaism. During this time, Kaplan had several unique experiences that cemented his identity as a Jewish person, such as participating in an imaginative Jewish wedding ceremony as a child, which included a makeshift chuppah and stand-in rabbi. However, his parents provided knowledge beyond that of their faith as well. Kaplan’s father was a store-owner in Miami, Florida, during Kaplan’s childhood in the 1970s and Kaplan claims that his involvement with his father’s work inspired his own “entrepreneurial spirit” – and Kaplan’s eventual business pursuits. Kaplan married his college sweetheart, Carol, and they had two daughters, Robin and Samantha. Kaplan and his wife kept a traditional Jewish home, which included kashrut and Sabbath observance, which was more ritual observance than he had experienced during his childhood. In his later adult life, inspired by his father and supported by his wife, Kaplan decided to become a franchisee of Subway Corporate. This venture quickly developed into a full-fledged career and Kaplan later became the owner of the Parkette restaurant in Lexington, Kentucky, which is now locally renowned. Although he attributes much of his good character to his Jewish faith, Kaplan insists that determination and the acceptance of his own failures allowed him to become successful in business. Through his running of the Parkette and his involvement in the local Jewish community, he continues to serve members of the Lexington community. In conclusion, Jeffrey Kaplan advises listeners to pursue their own dreams and desires, just as he did. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh174_jk045 Subject The topic of the resource Entrepreneurship Jewish businesspeople Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Families. Jewish children Jewish families. Childhood Jews--Identity. Judaism. Religion Worship (Judaism) Education Lexington (Ky.) Restaurants Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/4f4180649747c51e4f30f912d6342d18.jpeg b9c318631457eba82c54f2300aeac4ff Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Carol Ely Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Fred Joseph Interview Keyword Architectural design. Architecture Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Race relations Racism Race discrimination African Americans--Segregation Busing for school integration Jefferson County Public Schools Archives. Archival materials. Jewish archives OHMS Object Text 5.2 2017oh035_jk044 Interview with Fred Joseph, February 3, 2017 2017oh035_jk044 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Antisemitism. Anti-Semitism. Families. Genealogy Jews--Identity. Judaism. Discrimination. Louisville (Ky.) Jewish children Jewish families. Worship (Judaism) Childhood Religion Civil rights Wesleyan University Education, Higher Higher education Washington (D.C.) African American leadership University of Michigan Housing development Lawyers--Kentucky--Louisville Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Architectural design. Architecture Holidays. Fasts and feasts--Judaism. Race relations Racism Race discrimination African Americans--Segregation Busing for school integration Jefferson County Public Schools Archives. Archival materials. Jewish archives Fred Joseph Carol Ely 1:|12(3)|22(5)|38(5)|50(1)|73(4)|89(12)|99(7)|110(2)|126(1)|154(4)|173(5)|185(9)|202(6)|213(1)|226(13)|247(7)|258(1)|271(12)|304(10)|319(12)|343(3)|359(7)|375(8)|387(8)|407(1)|422(11)|449(14)|467(2)|479(6)|492(14)|502(12)|528(7)|549(1)|558(3)|572(9)|584(13)|601(14)|617(13)|632(11)|643(13)|667(4)|675(3)|683(13)|697(4)|718(2)|729(9)|739(12)|756(1)|776(9)|784(6)|794(5)|804(8)|823(9)|836(2)|856(2)|870(3)|886(7)|905(10)|915(2)|933(1)|957(6)|974(5)|994(11)|1006(4)|1024(12)|1039(5)|1052(10)|1066(9)|1081(9)|1094(4)|1106(2)|1118(4)|1128(5)|1148(3)|1166(13)|1183(10)|1196(9)|1215(1)|1228(7)|1252(7)|1262(2)|1276(9)|1291(15)|1302(3)|1319(3)|1337(11)|1354(6)|1364(7)|1380(12)|1412(14)|1429(4)|1439(12)|1460(11)|1471(9)|1482(2)|1504(5)|1519(1)|1528(10)|1538(13)|1548(2)|1570(3)|1591(1)|1605(8)|1623(1)|1632(6)|1660(4) 0 Vimeo video &lt ; iframe allowFullScreen frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; height=&quot ; 564&quot ; mozallowfullscreen src=&quot ; https://player.vimeo.com/video/253433339&quot ; webkitAllowFullScreen width=&quot ; 640&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 0 Family background Ready? Fred Joseph discusses his family's background, specifically how they came to the United States of America in the late 1850s. His father Alfred S. Joseph, Jr's family came to Shelbyville, Kentucky in 1858 from Württemberg, Germany. This family came from the German Liberal (Jewish) movement. Fred Joseph's mother's family came to Cincinnati, Ohio in the 1850s from near Hanover, Germany. His mother's name was originally Dorothy Cohn, but changed her name after marriage to Dorothy Joseph. Dorothy Cohn's side of the family also spent time living in New Albany, Ohio as well as Little Rock, Arkansas. Fred Joseph also had a great great great grandmother who was the daughter of a Polish Orthodox rabbi from Poland who moved to Copenhagen. His great great grandmother (on his mother's side) had two brothers in Denmark who became disaffected with the Jewish religion and founded the Baptist Church in Germany. He wrote a hymnal in German, the hymns of which are used worldwide.There is a reference made to the brothers on the church windows at Highland Baptist Church on Grinstead Drive in Louisville, Kentucky. 1850s ; 1858 ; Alfred S. Joseph, Jr. ; Arkansas ; Baptist churches ; Cincinnati, Ohio ; Copenhagen, Denmark ; Denmark ; Dorothy Joseph ; Grinstead Drive ; Hanover, Germany ; Highland Baptist Church ; Indiana ; Liberal Movement ; Louisville, Kentucky ; New Albany, Ohio ; Orthodox Judaism ; Shelbyville, Kentucky ; Württemberg, Germany Cincinnati (Ohio) ; Copenhagen (Denmark) ; Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Hanover (Germany) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; New Albany (Ohio) ; Shelbyville (Ky.) ; Württemberg (Germany) 49.001, 9.5845 17 Württemberg (Germany) 306 Maternal family history So when your family arrived in America, you talked about some of the places that they lived. What kind of professions were they following? What, what kind of work? When Joseph's maternal side of the family first moved to America, they moved around a lot, living in Cincinnati, Augusta, and Little Rock. His great great grandfather was a friend of Rabbi Isaac Mayer Wise in Cincinnati. Joseph’s great grandfather, Mathius Cohn, published a newspaper, studied law, was asked to be on the first board of trustees at the University of Arkansas, and eventually became the first Jew elected to the Arkansas legislature. Mathius Cohn passed a bill that allowed &quot ; Jewish preachers&quot ; to perform wedding ceremonies that were recognized by the state. In addition, he was also the Arkansas representative to found both the American Bar Association and the American Jewish Committee. He and Isaac Bernheim served on together on AJC committees. Joseph's mother's matriarchal side was the Ottenheimer family, important in the Little Rock business community, education and library developments. Her maternal grandfather was a merchant, member of Little Rock city council, and the bank board. His mother's family's lives were part of the Southern, early German immigration. Alfred Joseph Jr. ; American Bar Association ; American Jewish Committee ; Arkansas ; Augusta, Arkansas ; Belvedere ; Bible ; Cincinnati, Ohio ; Cohen family ; Dallas, Texas ; Dorothy Cohn ; Driving Miss Daisy ; Fayetteville, Arkansas ; France ; Georgia ; Isaac Bernheim ; Isaac Mayer Wise ; Jewish ; Judaism ; Kentucky ; Little Rock, Arkansas ; Mathius Cohn ; Miami, Florida ; New Albany ; Ottenheimer family ; University of Arkansas Augusta (Ark.) ; Cincinnati (Ohio) ; Dallas (Tex.) ; Families. ; Fayetteville (Ark.) ; Genealogy ; Little Rock (Ark.) ; Miami (Fla.) 34.746, -92.28959 17 Little Rock (Ark.) http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/encyclopedia/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=6636 Mathius Cohn's page on the Encyclopedia of Arkansas 650 Paternal family history My, uh, father's family came to Kentucky in the late 1850s, and again, for reasons I can't trace, um, on, on his mother's side... Fred Joseph’s father’s family came to Kentucky in the late 1850s, where they owned a hemp farm on Hempridge Road. One of Fred Joseph's great uncles was the captain of the Shelby militia during the Civil War and a very highly regarded soldier. The group, known as the Mt. Eaton Sharpshooters, was known as a highly skilled group of marksmen in the Kentucky Militia. Shelbyville had a substantial Jewish population at the time, though people went to Adath Israel Synagogue in Louisville with Rabbi Enlow. Fred Joseph's father, Alfred Joseph Jr. rode the interurban railroad track between Louisville and Shelbyville, Kentucky. The interurban railroad track was faster to take than driving on Highway 64. Grandfather Captain Abe moved to Sixth Street, Louisville and put his grandmother in Louisville school. The other side of his family was occupied with stock trading and lived near the stockyards. Adath Israel ; Alfred Joseph, Jr. ; Arkansas ; Captain Abe ; Central Park ; Civil War ; Dorothy Cohn ; DuPont Manual High School ; Frankfort Avenue ; Germany ; Hemp farms ; Hempridge Road ; Jewish community ; Kentucky ; Kentucky Militia ; Lexington, Kentucky ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Mathius Cohn ; Mt. Eaton Sharpshooters ; Rabbi Enlow ; Rabbi Rowe ; Shelby County, Kentucky ; Shelby militia ; Shelbyville, Kentucky ; Sixth street Families. ; Genealogy ; Lexington (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Shelby County (Ky.) ; Shelbyville (Ky.) ; United States--History--Civil War, 1861-1865. 38.163, -85.126 17 Hempridge Road in Shelbyville (Ky.) http://history.ky.gov/landmark/kentuckys-neutrality-during-the-civil-war/ An article about Kentucky's role in the Civil War from the Kentucky Historical Society 938 A family of architects And, uh, you have some very distinguished architects in your family. How--w--start that story. Where does that begin? Fred Joseph has several distinguished architects in his family, including his grandfather, Alfred Joseph, Sr. who was with McDonald &amp ; amp Dodd. His brother, Oscar Joseph, also studied architecture, so the two brothers started their own firm, Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph, in 1908. They became involved in many major projects and had a specialty in distillery design, and designed Brown-Forman, National Distillers, Seagram, and Stitzel-Weller, the Jewish Hospital, the Jewish Community Center (JCC), Kneseth, and the United Way Building. Fred Joseph’s father and first cousin also went on to become architects in 1930s after studying at University of Pennsylvania, at which point the firm became Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph. However, this was during the Great Depression, so Grandpa’s brother and son moved to Los Angeles, California and formed Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph there while the grandpa and dad continued Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph in Louisville, Kentucky. His father was the principal architect for Morehead State University and worked with Frederick Law Olmstead, the designer of Central Park in New York. He also designed schools, a prison, and movie theaters. Alfred Joseph, Sr. ; Atherton Hospital ; Broadway ; Brown-Foreman ; Central Park ; duPont Manual High School ; Eddyville State Prison ; Frederick Law Olmstead ; Hazelwood Elementary School ; Jefferson Community College ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish Hospital ; Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph ; Lions Club Eye Bank ; Los Angeles, California ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Mary Anderson ; McDonald &amp ; amp Dodd ; Morehead State University ; Morehead, Kentucky ; Motor family ; National Distillers ; New Albany ; New York ; Oscar Joseph ; Presbyterian Seminary ; Seagram ; Stitzel-Weller ; The Great Depression ; The United Way building ; University of Michigan ; University of Pennsylvania Architectural design. ; Architecture ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Los Angeles (Calif.) ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.18888, -83.431 17 Morehead State University http://josephandjoseph.net/ Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph Law Firm's official website 1263 Jewish influences in architecture Well, they clearly got a lot of important commissions. Do you think that their being Jewish, uh, was a factor at all? Fred Joseph does not believe that his family experienced any anti-Semitism in the architecture world. However, he does note that Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph did all of the Jewish work in architecture, while Nolan &amp ; amp Nolan did all of the Catholic work. Grandpa was a Shriner for eighty years, and that may have had an influence on his style of architecture, but not necessarily a Jewish influence. Fred Joseph describes it as a Middle Eastern influence. He also designed the Temple and Kneseth Israel synagogue on Taylorsville Road, for which he did a lot of research in order to reflect the interests and ideals of the congregation. Antisemitism ; Architecture ; Bensinger Building ; Broadway ; Catholic ; Jewish ; Jewish Hospital ; Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph ; Kneseth Israel ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Main Street ; Moorish influence ; Nolan &amp ; amp Nolan ; Shriners ; Standard Country Club ; Switow family ; Taylorsville Road ; United Way Building Anti-Semitism. ; Antisemitism. ; Architectural design. ; Architecture ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Jews--Identity. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.244, -85.6748 17 Kneseth Israel Congregation 1492 Immediate family history Um, okay. So, let's, uh, switch back to the personal now for a minute, and, uh, your--tell me your parent's names and when and where they were born. Just-- Fred Joseph discusses his immediate family history. His father, Alfred S. Joseph, Jr., was born in Louisville, Kentucky in 1912 and was a Reform Jew. His mother, originally Dorothy Cohn, was born in Little Rock and changed her name in 1930 from Cohn to Cone because of anti-Semitism. Alfred Joseph, III, (the interviewee) was born in Louisville, Kentucky in 1943 at Baptist Hospital, interestingly, a Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph building design. Fred’s sister, Susan Joseph, was born in 1947. Fred Joseph grew up only a block and a half away from the Baptist seminary on Lexington Road. He believes that this was an important part of his growing up because he went to Clark Elementary School, Barrett Junior High School and Atherton High School. Due to his close proximity to the seminary, he did not have any Jewish classmates until he got to high school. Many of his friends were from families affiliated with the Seminary, while most Jewish families lived in the Highlands. Alfred S. Joseph, Jr. ; Anti-Semitism ; Atherton High School ; Atlanta, Georgia ; Baptist Hospital ; Barrett Junior High School ; Broadway ; Clark School ; Dorothy Cone Joseph ; Highlands ; Jewish ; Jewish tradition ; Joseph &amp ; amp Joseph ; Judaism ; Lexington Road ; Little Rock, Arkansas ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Susan Joseph Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Atlanta (Ga.) ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Little Rock (Ark.) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.2375, -85.6395 17 Baptist Hospital https://www.baptisthealth.com/louisville/Documents/6c591b83-c97e-4caa-b89f-ecc77ce629d6.pdf Map of Baptist Hospital 1667 Growing up Jewish in a Baptist community Did you find yourself in religious debates with your friends, or-- Fred Joseph discusses growing up in a community that was mostly Christian, especially Baptist, while he was Jewish. He went to Barrett Junior High School, where there were never sock hops so he didn't learn to dance. He experienced Christian influences in school, and would sometimes find himself in religious debates with his peers, but never felt pressured because he was a different religion. Anytime that there was a Jewish holiday, Fred Joseph would be asked to come to the front of the class to explain the meaning and significance of the holiday. Joseph never felt pressured to convert in these circles. Joseph describes it as a “pretty open experience,” but says that that changed when he went to Atherton High School. Social clubs were an important part of life at this time in the community. Even though not all of Joseph’s friends were Jewish, he could not participate in their non-Jewish social clubs. He was a member of the Jewish fraternity Pi Tau Pi and joined the Jewish social clubs. Fred Joseph believes that the Baptist seminary was a much more open place while he was growing up than it is today. He notes that Rabbi Waller got his doctorate in divinity at the Baptist seminary. One of Rabbi Waller's classmates was Monsignor Horrigan, a very prominent Catholic and the first president of Bellarmine University. Atherton High School ; Baptist Seminary ; Baptists ; Barrett Junior High School ; BBYO ; Bellarmine University ; Billy Graham ; Catholic ; Christmas ; Highlands ; holiday ; Jewish ; Judaism ; Monsignor Horrigan ; Pi Tau Pi ; Rabbi Waller ; Sock hops Childhood ; Education ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Religion 38.249, -85.696 17 Barrett Junior High School http://www.sbts.edu/ Website of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary 1866 Anti-Semitic experiences I've heard a lot about the social clubs at the center, and the important role it played in people's lives, but I didn't realize that it was because there were high school clubs that were restricted also in town. Fred Joseph reflects on some anti-Semitic experiences that he had growing up, such as not being able to be in the same social clubs as his non-Jewish friends. In addition, he recalls a time when he went to the Louisville Country Club’s pool with one of his friends and the lifeguard blew the whistle and told everyone to get out because there was a Jew in the pool. The friend’s family was then asked not to bring Fred Joseph back if they wanted to continue to be members of the country club. As a result, the family withdrew from the country club. However, this was not the only anti-Semitic experience Fred Joseph had in Louisville, Kentucky. When he moved back to Louisville from Washington in 1972, he was told by several major law firms that they don’t interview Jews. While in Louisville, Fred Joseph was a member of a firm that was very active in the Pendennis Club. The Pendennis Club asked Joseph to become a member because they were trying to transition to being less religiously restrictive of their members. In addition, the Louisville neighborhood of Indian Hills was effectively redlined against Jews and African Americans. Many of the deeds in Indian Hills contained anti-Israelite and anti-black language. Anti-black ; Anti-Israelite ; Anti-Semitism ; Bingham family ; Glenview ; Indian Hills ; Jewish ; John Yarmuth ; Judaism ; Louisville Country Club ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Pendennis Club ; Race relations ; Racism ; Sunday school ; Washington Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Race discrimination--Kentucky 38.279, -85.677 17 Louisville Country Club http://www.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=a73ce5ba85ce4c3f80d365ab1ff89010 A Map and History of Redlining in Louisville, Kentucky (including Indian Hills) 2108 Judaism growing up Well, circling back a little bit, in--growing up in your family, what kind of, um, uh, Jewish education did you have? What kind of Judaism did your parents practice? What, what was your relationship to that? Fred Joseph grew up in a reform Jewish household, members of the Adath Israel congregation. His family went to synagogue on high holidays and he attended Sunday school. They had a Christmas tree every year. In addition, Fred Joseph was not bar mitzvahed and had never attended a bar mitzvah until after college. Alfred Joseph, Jr. and Dorothy Cohn were close friends with Rabbi and Mrs. Waller and Rabbi and Mrs. Rowe. Fred Joseph also went to a summer camp in Wisconsin that was primarily Jewish but had no Jewish activities. Adath Israel Brith Shalom ; Alfred Joseph, Jr. ; Assimilation ; Christmas ; Dorothy Cohn ; High holidays ; Jewish ; Jewish camps ; Jewish education ; Judaism ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Passover ; Rabbi and Mrs. Rowe ; Rabbi and Mrs. Waller ; Social norms ; Sunday school ; Synagogues ; Washington ; Wisconsin Childhood ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Judaism ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion ; Worship (Judaism) 38.2919, -85.6295 17 Adath Israel Brith Shalom 2299 Parents' ties to Judaism And, uh, when you were growing up, did your--was your father involved in the Jewish community? Um, the organized Jewish community, with any groups or? Fred Joseph’s father, Alfred Joseph, Jr., was not very active in the organized Jewish community but Fred’s mother, Dorothy Joseph, was very active. She was very involved in the National Council of Jewish Women. Dorothy Joseph was influenced to join the National Council of Jewish Women by her mother, Helen Joseph, who had been president of the National Council of Jewish Women in 1920. Dorothy Joseph was very interested in mental illness and was one of the founders and the second president of Bridgehaven, a halfway house in Louisville, Kentucky. Although she never attended college, Dorothy went on to become the director of forensic psychiatry at Central State Hospital and received several national awards for her involvement in mental health. Alfred Joseph, Jr. ; Betty Jane Fleischaker ; Bridgehaven ; Central State Hospital ; Dorothy Joseph ; Fanny Rose Rosenbaum ; Halfway houses ; Helen Joseph ; Jewish community ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Mental illness ; National Council of Jewish Women ; Shelbyville, Kentucky Jewish families. ; Judaism ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Mental health ; Shelbyville (Ky.) 38.2396, -85.7548 17 Bridgehaven in Louisville (Ky.) http://www.bridgehaven.org/about/ The history of Bridgehaven, from their official website 2451 Dubby Overstreet--Inspiration for his civil rights work Was there anybody else as you were growing up that was, uh, an influence on your life later? Fred Joseph believes that a woman who had a great influence on his life was Dubby Overstreet, the granddaughter of a slave and a longtime employee of the Joseph family. Overstreet worked for Fred Joseph’s grandparents, his parents, and eventually his own family throughout her life, helping out around the house and assisting in raising the children of each household. Although Overstreet was not formally educated, she was clearly very intelligent and determined. She was not afraid to stand up for herself and what she believed in and would not let anyone talk down to her. Fred Joseph attributes an early interest in civil rights to having a strong role model such as Dubby Overstreet in his life from a young age. African American ; Alfred Joseph, Jr. ; Alfred Joseph, Sr. ; Anne Joseph ; Civil rights ; Dorothy Joseph ; Dubby Overstreet ; Helen Joseph Childhood ; Civil rights ; Race discrimination ; Race relations ; Racism 17 2664 Wesleyan University And, uh, then where did you go to college? What was that decision-making process like? Fred Joseph stated that all of his camp friends went to Ivy League colleges which had somewhat of an influence on his college decision. He wanted to go east and attend a college that had no Jewish fraternities to avoid his experiences in high school. He chose Wesleyan University due to the recommendation of his Lebanese classmate Fred Kurim. He attended from 1961 to 1965, where he joined a fraternity with men of different races and religions. They took turns making a blessing from their respective traditions at the meal, and he delighted in the ecumenical nature of this. During college, Fred would still attend services during the high holy days at a nearby synagogue but he has no idea if there was a Hillel in the area. Adath Israel ; Atherton High School ; Black ; Catholic ; College life ; Connecticut ; Cornell University ; Dartmouth College ; Fraternities ; Fred Kurim ; Harvard University ; High holidays ; Hillel ; Jewish ; Judaism ; Lebanese ; Mormon ; Passover ; University of Pennsylvania ; Wesleyan University ; Yale University Education, Higher ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Higher education ; Holidays. ; Religion ; Wesleyan University ; Worship (Judaism) 41.556, -72.654 17 Wesleyan University http://www.wesleyan.edu/ The Official Website of Wesleyan University 2925 Race relations So, you were in college during a very pivotal time of change on college campuses. During Fred Joseph’s junior year at Wesleyan, his roommate was an African American named Ron Young. Young was active in Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), including in summer actions in Mississippi and the group that organized the Peace March in Washington. Joseph believes that having an African American roommate made the racial unrest of the 1960s very personal to him. Young accompanied Joseph on the drive back home from college in 1964. They had to make an overnight stop so that they wouldn’t be too tired. The two had to stop at eight different hotels before they were allowed to stay in a room together, at which point Ron Young had to claim that he was African royalty in order to be given a room with a white man. Ron Young is actually from Nigeria, but is not African royalty. His experiences with his black college friends inspired Fred Joseph to do his thesis on black leadership in Louisville, Kentucky. He received a grant to do so from the Falk Foundation in Philadelphia. Joseph wrote about the results of his research in a pamphlet published by the Human Relations Commission, for which he also worked. Fred Joseph also notes that Martin Luther King, Jr. gave the commencement address at Wesleyan in 1976. Fred's grandfather designed the Porter Funeral Home ; Woody Porter Sr., who headed University of Louisville's Board of Trustees, helped Fred meet Lyman Johnson and other prominent Black leaders. Africa ; African American ; African American leadership ; Alfred Joseph, Sr. ; Civil Rights Movement ; Cleveland, Ohio ; Dashiki ; Falk Fountain ; Fellowship of Reconciliation ; Frank Stanley, Sr. ; James Lawson ; John Lewis ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Lyman Johnson ; Martin Luther King, Jr. ; Memphis, Tennessee ; Mississippi ; Mississippi Summer Project ; Nigeria ; Ohio ; Peace marches ; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ; Porter Funeral Home ; Racial divide ; Ron Young ; Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNICC) ; The North ; The South ; University of Louisville ; University of Michigan ; Washington, D.C. ; Wesleyan University ; West Virginia ; Woody Porter, Sr. African American leadership ; African Americans--Segregation ; Civil rights ; Cleveland (Ohio) ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Memphis (Tenn.) ; Philadelphia (Pa.) ; Race discrimination ; Race relations ; Racism ; Washington (D.C.) 41.556, -72.654 17 Wesleyan University http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/sncc A history of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee 3309 Picking University of Michigan Law School So, you decided in the course of this to go to law school? Fred Joseph decided that when he went to law school, he wanted to get out of the East because he was done with the condescension accompanied with being both a Southerner, a Jew, and a public school graduate. For example, Wesleyan University at the time was about 70% students who had came from, as Fred describes, &quot ; snobby prep schools,&quot ; such as Andover, Exeter and Choate. Therefore, Joseph decided to attend the University of Michigan to get out of the East and to a co-ed university. Andover ; Ann Arbor, Michigan ; Atherton ; Choate ; Exeter ; Harvard University ; Jewish ; Judaism ; Julliard ; Law schools ; Lincoln Center ; Michigan ; New York ; Prep schools ; Public schools ; Social classes ; Social life ; University of Michigan ; Wesleyan University Ann Arbor (Mich.) ; Discrimination. ; Education, Higher ; Higher education ; University of Michigan 42.278, -83.737 17 The University of Michigan https://www.law.umich.edu/Pages/default.aspx The University of Michigan Law School's official website 3452 Meeting his wife, Anne Cohn And at what point did you meet your wife? Fred Joseph describes how he met and got married to Anne Joseph. Originally, Joseph was dating Lynn Lewis from eighth grade through college. Lynn Lewis and Anne Joseph, whose maiden name was Webman, were friends at Sophie Newcomb Memorial College. Anne and Fred were introduced to each other, yet they had no romantic interest. Eventually, Lynn Lewis fell in love and married Dr. Ken Silk. Fred and Anne Joseph were both at the wedding, yet were still not romantically interested in each other. Finally, Anne and Fred Joseph individually moved to Washington, D.C. within the same week and began dating. A year later in, 1968, the two were married. Anne Cohn ; Anne Joseph ; Anne Webman ; Boston ; Dr. Ken Silk ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Lynn Lewis ; Michigan ; Sophie Newcomb Memorial College ; Washington, D.C. Louisville (Ky.) ; Marriage ; Washington (D.C.) 38.253, -85.758 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.kentuckyonehealth.org/dr-warren-chumley-m-d Kentucky One Health's Website ; Contains information about Dr. Ken Silk such as education, specialty, a biography, clinical interests and procedures performed. 3552 Working at the Office of Economic Opportunity So, um, back to law school. Fred Joseph explains that from the time he began law school, he knew he never wanted to be a litigator. Rather, he was in urban development law, and very interested in civil rights matters. His father wanted him to join the architecture firm but Fred was more interested in housing access. He worked with Gov. George Romney on the Michigan open housing statute. After graduating law school from the University of Michigan and failing to get a job with the new federal Department of Housing and Urban Development, Joseph accepted a job in the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) in 1967, which was the site of President Lyndon B. Johnson's War on Poverty. Joseph worked in the community action section of the OEO which initiated programs such as Head Start, legal services, foster grandparents, and a variety of manpower programs. The Park DuValle Health Center was funded by the OEO in 1968, and Fred Joseph did the legal sign off on that project. He speaks of working with Sargent Shriver and John Doar. Alfred Joseph, Jr. ; Civil rights ; Department of Housing and Urban Development ; George Romney ; Job Corps ; John Doar ; Law schools ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) ; Open housing statutes ; Park DuValle Health Center ; President Lyndon B. Johnson ; Sargent Shriver ; University of Michigan ; Urban Development Law ; War on Poverty ; Washington, D.C. ; Wesleyan University Civil rights ; Housing development ; Lawyers ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Washington (D.C.) 38.227, -85.807 17 Park DuValle Health Center https://www.britannica.com/topic/War-on-Poverty A history of the War on Poverty 3877 Living in Washington, D.C. So when you lived in Washington--and what years were you in Washington? Fred Joseph lived in Washington, D.C. from summer 1967 through 1972 in Georgetown, working in Dupont Circle. After marrying Anne Joseph in 1968, they moved to southeast D.C., four blocks behind the Library of Congress. At the time, the Capitol Hill area was becoming gentrified. Everyone in the neighborhood got to know each other generally well, yet there was a high crime rate. In fact, there was no house that had not been burglarized in the year and a half that the Josephs had lived there, including their own home. Fred and Anne Joseph were a part of the Jewish community in Washington D.C. Because there was no synagogue on Capitol Hill, they joined a synagogue in Maryland called Temple Sinai, where the couple married. American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) ; Anne Cohn ; Anne Joseph ; Capital Hill ; duPont Circle ; Gentrification ; Georgetown ; Jewish ; Jewish community ; Judaism ; Library of Congress ; Maryland ; Rabbis ; Rock Week Parkway ; Synagogues ; Temple Sinai ; Washington, D.C. Religion ; Washington (D.C.) ; Worship (Judaism) 38.96, -77.0629 17 The Temple Sinai, where Fred and Anne Joseph got married http://www.templesinaidc.org/ The Temple Sinai's website 4062 Civil rights counsel for the House Judiciary So, s--at some point something brought you back to Louisville. Fred Joseph explains that he had always wanted to return to Louisville, Kentucky, so in 1972 it came as no surprise when he and his wife, Anne Joseph moved back from Washington, D.C. While in D.C., Fred Joseph worked as a civil rights counsel for the House Judiciary. He was primarily involved with the enforcement of the Voting Rights Act because President Richard Nixon and John Mitchell were doing everything possible to not enforce the act. Nixon and Mitchell were doing so because Southern states were their primary voting base, but if they followed the Voting Rights Act their numbers in the polls could go down due to an increase in African American voters. Fred Joseph’s job required him to spend a lot of time in Mississippi, where he was not allowed to travel without FBI protection. Joseph shares a story of the antisemitism he experienced after being invited over to dinner at the Hinds County registrar’s house. Fred was very aware of the Jewish aspects of civil rights work in the OEO: Hy Buchbinder (eventually with American Jewish Committee) and Joseph (Joe) Rauh, chairman of the Leadership Council on Civil Rights. In the South, many people thought every Jew was a civil rights person and a communist. African Americans ; American Jewish Committee ; Arctic Circle ; Civil Rights ; Civil Rights Act of 1964 ; Coahoma County, Mississippi ; Columbia Law School ; FBI ; Havana, Cuba ; Hinds County, Mississippi ; House Judiciary ; Hy Bookbinder ; Jackson, Mississippi ; Jews ; John Mitchell ; Joseph Rauh ; Judaism ; Kosher ; Leadership Conference on Civil Rights ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) ; Poverty ; President Nixon ; Sahara desert ; South ; Southern tradition ; Voting Rights Act ; Voting Rights Act of 1965 ; Washington ; Wife Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Civil rights ; Coahoma County (Miss.) ; Discrimination. ; Havana (Cuba) ; Hinds County (Miss.) ; Jackson (Miss.) ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Race relations ; Racism 32.2648, -90.3748 17 Hinds County (Miss.) https://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=false&amp ; doc=100 A copy, history and summary of the Voting Rights act of 1965 4463 Integration of Jefferson County Public Schools Uh, back to Louisville, there were some, uh, people working on civil rights issues and open housing issues, uh, at that point, or was that more earlier than when you came back? When Fred Joseph returned home to live in Louisville, Kentucky in 1973, he was chairman of the Legal Aid Society, which was the principal counsel of the plaintiffs in the busing issue in Louisville. The ‘busing issue’ that Joseph referred to is the racial integration of Jefferson County Public Schools. Before the integration, the old city of Louisville school system consisted of city schools (Atherton, Shawnee, Male, Central and duPont Manual High School), and county schools such as Waggener, Seneca and Iroquois High Schools. The city school system went bankrupt, which caused the merger of the two Louisville school systems. With the school merger and the court-ordered desegregation of schools, students of different races were bused to schools across the city, racially integrating schools in a way that they had not been before. This caused controversy across Louisville. Fred Joseph notes that this caused much of the Louisville Jewish community to move from old Louisville to the suburbs. However, he states that the Jewish community was quite divided on the issue. Many Jewish families supported busing, but others opposed it and sent their kids to private schools in order to avoid it. Fred Joseph explains that he sent his daughters to private school until high school because the school they would have been sent to was one of the worst in the city, not because of racial fears. Adath Israel ; Anne Braden ; Atherton ; Board of education ; Brith Shalom ; Brownsville Road ; Bussing ; Central High School ; Chenoweth Lane ; Civil rights ; Downtown ; duPont Manual High School ; East End ; Iroquois High School ; Jefferson County Public Schools ; Jewish Community of Louisville ; Jews ; Judaism ; Keneseth Israel ; Klu Klux Klan ; Legal Aid Society ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Male ; Old Louisville ; Seneca High School ; Shawnee ; Waggener High School ; West End African Americans--Segregation ; Busing for school integration ; Civil rights ; Discrimination. ; Jefferson County (Ky.) ; Jefferson County Public Schools ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Race relations ; Racism ; School integration 38.222, -85.758 17 duPont Manual Magnet High School https://tcf.org/content/report/louisville-kentucky-reflection-school-integration/ A report on the integration of Jefferson County Public Schools 4745 Children, grandchildren and their Jewish involvement So, since you brought up your family--so you and Anne were married in Washington. Fred Joseph and his wife, Anne Joseph, had two daughters, Alix and Amy Joseph in 1974 and 1979, respectively. Alix Joseph has two sons and is currently a lawyer living in Denver, Colorado. Amy Joseph went to her father’s alma mater, Wesleyan University. She is currently working at the Bernheim Arboretum. There are also now two grandsons. Fred Joseph believes that his daughters became so involved in the Louisville Jewish community growing up because they saw how involved both of their parents were. Upon Fred and Anne's return to Louisville, they became very active in the Jewish community. Fred was the chairman of the Community Relations Committee for the Jewish Federation and his wife, Anne, was working with the National Council of Jewish Women and Park DuValle. Alix Joseph was involved with the Junior Counsel of Jewish Women and Amy was in the first class of Kesher Kentucky, a program for Jewish high school youth. Unlike their parents, both Alix and Amy Joseph had bat mitzvahs. Anne's family came to the U.S. in the 1920s, her grandmother came in 1939, and others were killed in the concentration camps in WWII. Her family had big Passover seders so Fred adopted that custom and came to enjoy the tradition, including his non-Jewish friends in their celebrations. He also stopped having a Christmas tree. Ali Center ; Alix Joseph ; Bar mitzvahs ; Bernheim Arboretum ; Christmas ; Community Relations Committee ; Community Relations Council ; Concentration camps ; D.B. Wylde ; Denver, Colorado ; Eastern European ; German ; Handmaker, Weber &amp ; amp Meyer ; Hannukah ; Holocaust ; Jewish community ; Jewish Federation ; Jewish Hospital ; Junior Council ; Kentucky Derby ; Kentucky Derby Museum ; Kesher Kentucky ; Legal Aid ; National Council of Jewish Women ; Park DuValle ; Passover ; Poland ; Rocky Mountain National Park ; Russia ; Seder ; Shelly Weber ; Stuart Handmaker ; United States of America ; Wesleyan University Denver (Colo.) ; Fasts and feasts--Judaism. ; Genealogy ; Holidays. ; Jewish children ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. 39.739, -104.99 17 Denver (Colo.) https://bernheim.org/ Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest's official website 5232 A controversial ACLU case / Dave Armstrong Um, digressing a little, um, when I came back to Louisville, uh, I was asked by the American Civil Liberties Union to litigate a case... When Fred Joseph moved back to Louisville, Kentucky from Washington D.C., he was asked by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) to litigate a case where a student at the University of Louisville had been arrested because he had a marijuana plant in his window. As part of the Jefferson County Police Department’s search, they seized fifteen psychology textbooks assigned for a psychology of drugs class and determined to burn the texts according to their interpretation of the controlled substances statute. Joseph disagreed with the interpretation, so he took the case to Dave Armstrong, who at the time was running against the then-County Commonwealth Attorney, for advice. Regarding the case, Armstrong stated, “books means books and records. It doesn’t mean textbooks. We are not Nazi Germany.” This experience was the foundation of Fred Joseph’s close friendship with Dave Armstrong. Joseph managed several of Armstrong’s campaigns and the two families would spend holidays, such as Passover and Christmas, together. During Dave Armstrong’s career, he was the Commonwealth Attorney, the Kentucky Attorney General, the county judge, the mayor of Louisville, and then finally the commissioner of the Public Service Commission. Fred Joseph adds that Armstrong was very active in Jewish events ; he went to the Soviet Union on behalf of immigration of Soviet Jews. American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) ; Christmas ; Commonwealth Attorney ; Dave Armstrong ; Ed Schroering ; Jefferson County Police Department ; Kentucky ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Nazi Germany ; Nazis ; Public Service Commission ; Seder ; Soviet Jews ; Soviet Union ; University of Louisville ; Washington, D.C. Civil rights ; Jefferson County (Ky.) ; Lawyers--Kentucky--Louisville ; Louisville (Ky.) ; University of Louisville ; Washington (D.C.) 59.8827, 30.269 17 Former Soviet Union https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/107859376/ An article by the Courier Journal about Dave Armstron running for Commonwealth Attorney 5392 Professional career Uh, I don't want to skip over your adult professional career here. When Fred Joseph originally began his law practice, he focused on commercial real estate matters. He represented developers doing planning, zoning and contract work. After doing that for about 20 years, he started representing lenders, instead of developers. In the last part of his practice, starting in 1997, he concentrated primarily on public projects with a focus on affordable housing. This stage of Fred Joseph’s law practice is one that he is especially passionate about. He describes transitioning to this stage as “coming back to his roots.” Public projects that he worked on include the Hope VI project such as Park DuValle, Sheppard Square, Russell, and Fourth Street Live. These projects entailed addressing zoning, mixed use, affordability, and people's concerns in new ways. This combines architectural design, social good, law, and meeting people, which is exciting to Fred Joseph. Affordable housing ; Architecture ; Careers ; Community Relations Board ; Fourth Street Live ; Georgia ; Hope VI Project ; HUD ; Jewish community ; Kentucky ; Liberty Green ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Mississippi ; Park DuValle ; Public housing ; Public projects ; Residential ; Russell ; Sheppard Square ; UPS ; Urban ; Zoning Housing ; Lawyers--Kentucky--Louisville ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.252, -85.7569 17 Fourth Street Live 5749 Archiving the Louisville Jewish Community And, uh, you've also been involved with studying and recording the history of Louisville's Jewish community. Fred Joseph is involved with studying and recording the history of Louisville’s Jewish community and the archival project by the Jewish Community in Louisville (JCL). The Jewish community has had a great impact on Louisville from many perspectives, such as medical, professional and business. Joseph chaired the Kentucky Oral History Commission for several years and was on the executive committee of the Kentucky Historical Society. He's working on a family history that's already 900 pages. He is excited about this project because it might cause people to think about how things were a product of their time and how they related to other parts of the community. Fred Joseph was also involved in bringing the Anne Frank Exhibit to the Louisville Free Public Library. He would often go down to the library to sit and watch people wandering through the exhibit. Many of the visitors to the exhibit were not highly educated and had no idea who Anne Frank was, or what the Holocaust was about, but they were clearly moved by the exhibit. This experience inspired Fred Joseph to use the Jewish Community archival project as a way to make the Louisville community aware of the impact that the Jewish community has had in Louisville. The archives can be the basis of programming that impacts community relations. This could involve new volunteers in the way the Heritage Weekends years ago involved Jewish volunteers on the Belvedere. American Jewish Archives ; Anne Frank ; Belvedere ; Cincinnati, Ohio ; Holocaust ; Jewish ; Jews ; Judaism ; Kentucky Historical Society ; Kentucky Oral History Commission ; Louisville Board of Education ; Louisville Free Public Library ; Louisville Jewish Community ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Rabbi Waller ; the Filson Society ; the Jewish Federation of Louisville Archival materials. ; Archives. ; Cincinnati (Ohio) ; Genealogy ; Jewish archives ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.2449, -85.7578 17 The Louisville Free Public Library, where the Anne Frank Exhibit took place http://www.lfpl.org/annefrank/ The Anne Frank Exhibit by the Louisville Free Public Library 6191 Why Jewish history in Kentucky is important and significant And what stories would you like to see told, once there's the archives and, and, uh, there's a possibility of doing exhibits or educational programs or outreach? In this section, Fred Joseph discusses several stories of Jews who had a large impact on Kentucky as a way of showing why Jewish history in Kentucky is important, significant, and should be archived. The Crusade for Children was started by Rabbi Herbert Waller, Monsignor Horrigan, and Duke McCall. Rabbi Waller was extremely influential in beginning the Crusade for Children, was president of the board of education and has a public school named after him. Joseph also explains that major stores in the business history of the community have been Jewish stores. In addition, Jewish Hospital was a premier heart transplant center for years. For a long time, Jews in Louisville could not be serviced by any other hospitals in the area because of their religion. Finally, Joseph discusses Louis Brandeis, the first Jew to have a seat on the U.S. Supreme Court was a Louisvillian. In addition, Louis Brandeis’ cousin, Lewis Dembitz, wrote the first major treatise on Kentucky law. Ben Snider ; Bensinger’s ; Crusade for Children ; Duke McCall ; Education ; Jewish ; Jewish Hospital ; Jewish stores ; Jews ; Kaufman-Straus ; Lewis Dembitz ; Louis Brandeis ; Louisville, Kentucky ; Monsignor Horrigan ; Rabbi Waller Anti-Semitism ; Antisemitism ; Discrimination. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish families. ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Judaism. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.249, -85.751 17 Jewish Hospital http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/dembitz-lewis-naphtali A biography of Lewis Dembitz from the Jewish Virtual Library interview Fred Joseph discusses in great detail his family history and genealogy. He talks about their immigration to America from various places in Germany. He describes their history once they arrived in America, including their many accomplishments, specifically in the field of architecture. He discusses his childhood growing up in a Baptist community in Louisville, Kentucky. He talks about his family's Jewish traditions, his parents' involvement in the Jewish community, and his experiences with anti-Semitism. He discusses his inspiration for his work in the field of civil rights, which led to his work with Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and other forms of activism. He discusses his education at Wesleyan University and University of Michigan Law School before his career with the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) and as civil rights counsel for the House Judiciary. He discusses the integration of Jefferson County public schools and litigating a case for the ACLU in Louisville. ELY: I&#039 ; m Carol Ely. I&#039 ; m here with Fred Joseph, for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, sponsored by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. It&#039 ; s February 3rd, 2017, and thank you for agreeing to do this interview, Fred. JOSEPH: This is exciting. I&#039 ; m very pleased to do it. ELY: Great. And, uh, we talked about there&#039 ; ll be kind of a mix of personal questions about your family, and some questions about your work and your work in the community, so we may move back and forth a little bit, and, uh, we&#039 ; ll just see how it unfolds. So I&#039 ; ll start out with a, a question, which for you is really a big and important one, which is, when did members of your family first come to America and what brought them here? JOSEPH: interestingly, on both my mother&#039 ; s and father&#039 ; s side, they came in the late 1850s, uh, and I&#039 ; ve researched dramatically what caused them to come and I don&#039 ; t know. Um, I assume that--in all cases, they came from Germany, with one exception ; one came from, uh, Denmark, uh, but, um, uh, I don&#039 ; t know why they--why they came. They came in, uh, interestingly, they came to this area. On my father&#039 ; s side, they came to Shelbyville, Kentucky in 1858. And on my mother&#039 ; s side, they came to Cincinnati, uh, and moved to New Albany, and then moved back to Cincinnati, and then moved to Arkansas, uh, and, uh, all of that happened, uh, in the late 1850s. ELY: Do you know anything about what part of Germany they may have come from? JOSEPH: Uh, the--on my father&#039 ; s said, they call came from Württemberg near st--near Stuttgart. Uh, and on my mother&#039 ; s side, uh, they came from near Hanover. Um, but there was a part of the family, uh, that had come from Denmark. My great, great, great-grandmother on my mother&#039 ; s side was the daughter of a Polish rabbi who moved to Copenhagen, and, uh, then she met my great, great-granddad in Germany and came to the United States. ELY: So do you know anything about the political and religious beliefs they had in Europe? Were they part of the movement of liberals from Germany during the 1840s and 50s? JOSEPH: On my grand-- on my father&#039 ; s side, they were very much a part of that liberal moment. In fact, I have a copy of a confirmation certificate, uh, from 1851, uh, I believe it is. It&#039 ; s late-1840s, early-1850s, of my great, great--of my great-granddad in Germany. Um, uh, on my mother&#039 ; s side, I assume since he was an orthodox rabbi, he was not. The most interesting story on a religious basis though, is that, um, my great, great-grandmother on mother&#039 ; s side had two brothers, uh, in Denmark, uh, that became disaffected with the Jewish religion and founded the Baptist Church in Germany. ELY: Hm. JOSEPH: And are sufficiently well known as major factors in the Baptist religion that, uh, a reference to them is made on the church windows at Highland Baptist Church at Grinstead Drive in, in, in Louisville. ELY: Oh. JOSEPH: And they, uh, have, uh, are major players in the world Baptist religion. Uh, of course the family sat shiva, uh, at the time that they became involved, but it is an interesting story that, uh, relates to, uh, the relig--the religious feelings of the family at that time. UNKNOWN: I&#039 ; m gonna stop. ELY: Had you ever been asked to speak at the church about your family&#039 ; s connection? Are they aware of it? JOSEPH: Uh, they were very much aware of it. In fact, uh, he wrote a, a hymnal in German that contains some Baptist, uh, hymns that are used worldwide, uh, and they&#039 ; ve used that, uh, uh, Bible as a study--something to base their study on on several occasions. And I&#039 ; ve spoken with the minister there, who&#039 ; s very interested about it, yes. ELY: That&#039 ; s interesting. I didn&#039 ; t know about this. So there are Jewish roots to the Baptist movement in Germany? JOSEPH: They were the--very important in the early--in the early German Baptist movement, yes. ELY: So when your family arrived in America, you talked about some of the places that they lived. What kind of professions were they following? What, what kind of work? JOSEPH: Okay. Um, my--I&#039 ; ll start with Mother&#039 ; s family. Mother&#039 ; s family moved uh, uh, from Cincinnati to--they were--my great, great-grandfather was a friend of Isaac Mayer Wise. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: In Cincinnati. Um, and they moved to, uh, New Albany, where he had an auction house, um, that is now a French restaurant, uh, and, uh, several other related businesses, and then came, um, went back to Cincinnati, uh, for reasons that I never understood, uh, but then moved to Augusta County, uh, Arkansas, where he was the sheriff, uh, and then became, uh, the, uh, superintendent of instruction, and moved to Little Rock after that. Oh, and published a newspaper in August County, then moved to Little Rock where he studied law and became a lawyer, and was asked by the governor to be on the first board of trustees of the University of Arkansas, and he was the chairman of the site selection committee that selected Fayetteville as the, um, uh, site of the University of Arkansas, uh, and was then elected to the Arkansas legislature. The first Jew elected to the Arkansas legislature. Uh, and one of the things he was very involved in was, uh, passage of a bill which allowed--and this is a quote--Jewish preachers, uh, to perform wedding ceremonies because previously rabbis had not been a recognized religion, uh, which, uh, allowed their, their ceremonies to be recognized by the state. Uh, so, uh, that was--he was only there for, for one term, and then his son was a lawyer, um, the two of them were partners with, uh, the governor&#039 ; s brother. So they--there was a lot of involvement in state political things, uh, and interestingly, my great-grandfather who was, uh, actually born in New Albany and then moved to Georgia, was the Arkansas representative to the founding of the American Bar Association, and was, uh, the Arkansas representative in the founding of the American Jewish Committee. The Kentucky representative of the group was Isaac Bernheim, uh, and I have copies of minutes where the two of them sat on committees together. ELY: So they were very well accepted in the highest branches of government. Do you know if there was any pushback because they were Jews, or was it really a very smooth transition? This is kind of a southern story in a way. JOSEPH: It&#039 ; s a very southern story, uh, and interestingly, uh, the spouse of--I&#039 ; ve dealt with one part of the family. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: Another part of the Arkansas family, uh--that was the Cohn branch, which was my mother&#039 ; s--on Mother&#039 ; s side, and her matriarchal background--it was her patriarchal background. On the matriarchal side, the family was also very involved. Uh, her grandfather was, on the other side, was an early, um, very well received merchant, member of the city council, uh, um, members of the bank board, did a variety of things in Little Rock. And the family, which is the Ottenheimer family, uh, was a very important part of the Little Rock community. In fact, at this point, if you walk out of the Clinton Library in Little Rock and go along the river, you&#039 ; re on a, um, Belvedere, that&#039 ; s named after the Ottenheimer family. ELY: Oh. JOSEPH: So, uh, and they were very important in early library and educational programs in Little Rock. ELY: So at some point the story circles back to Kentucky? You have some Kentucky, uh, ancestors you know about from the same time period, right? JOSEPH: Well, they were--no. They stayed in Arkansas. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: They stayed in Arkansas. ELY: And that&#039 ; s your mother&#039 ; s background? JOSEPH: Mother--and Mother-- ELY: All right. JOSEPH: Mother was born in Little Rock and ended up in Miami, and my mother met my father in Miami. So, she came back here, but the family basically continued to be, uh, southern. Uh, there was a good part of the family in Little Rock and also in Dallas. So her family was all southern. In fact, it&#039 ; s interesting, when you think of Southern Jews, you think of Driving Miss Daisy. And the mother of the author of Driving--the parents of the author of Driving Miss Daisy lived next door to my grand--my grandparents--a generation--great-grandparents. So, it, it was very much the, uh, Driving Miss Daisy kind of, uh, early German-Jewish immigration. ELY: So, then it&#039 ; s your, um, father&#039 ; s family that&#039 ; s in Kentucky-- JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: --and Indiana, or just Kentucky? JOSEPH: Just Kentucky. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: My, uh, father&#039 ; s family came to Kentucky in the late 1850s, and again, for reasons I can&#039 ; t trace, um, on, on his mother&#039 ; s side--so, still my father&#039 ; s side, but on his--they moved to Shelbyville, outside of Shelbyville, where my great, great-granddad, uh, was a farmer, and, uh, had a substantial farm ; about 400 acres. Uh, as best I can tell, uh, they grew hemp. Interestingly, they lived on Hemp Ridge Road. Uh, and-- ELY: Hemp was huge in Kentucky. People forget that. It was huge. JOSEPH: It was a huge thing, uh, and he had four sons--I&#039 ; m sorry ; I&#039 ; m missing a generation. One of his two sons, uh, stayed in Shelbyville, was the captain of the Shelby militia during the Civil War, and a very highly regarded, um, soldier. His, uh, um, group was known as the Mt. Eaton Sharpshooters, and there are books written about the fact that they were one of the most highly, uh, skilled group of marksmen in the, uh, Kentucky Militia. He then, in 1866, opened a men&#039 ; s clothing store in Shelbyville, uh, and, uh--which was in the family until eighteen--I&#039 ; m sorry ; until 1948. He had four sons who were very prominent in Shelbyville ; one was mayor of Shelbyville, uh--my great-granddad was a member of the city council in Shelbyville, uh, but his sons were very prominent ; one was the mayor, one was the head of the fair board, uh, another was the fire chief. So they were very prominent, uh, in Shelbyville, uh, which at that time had a substantial Jewish community, actually. ELY: Synagogue? A temple or a synagogue then? JOSEPH: No. ELY: No? JOSEPH: Uh, uh, they, for the most part, were members of Adath Israel here. Um, it turns out that Rabbi Rowe, uh, was very involved with the family. His predecessor at Adath Israel was Rabbi Enlow, uh, and if you read history of Shelby County families, Rabbi Enlow played a very important part of those. There&#039 ; s a lady from Lexington who is now ninety-six and whose name I can&#039 ; t remember, just published a book. She grew up in Shelbyville and an awful lot of her book relates to--and then lived in Lexington--relates to, uh, uh, Rabbi Enlow and Rabbi Rowe. So--but they basically came in and at that time, the railroad track that is now--it runs out Frankfort Avenue, it was the interurban that went between Louisville and Shelbyville, and you could get from Louisville to Shelbyville faster than on the interurban than you can now driving Sixty-Four, because my father used to go out on the interurban to the farm in Shelbyville, um, and commute back and forth. My-- ELY: And Adath Israel was downtown then, so the interurban train went right through downtown. JOSEPH: Right. Right. Um, and, so my father went to Manual and he could go over to the railroad station, go out and end up in the center of Shelbyville in no time at all. And, um, my great-granddad, Captain Abe that we&#039 ; ve been talking about, uh, la-- in later part of his life, around 1910, moved to Sixth Street in Louisville and commuted to Shelbyville every day. He was near central--lived near Central Park, but he moved to Louisville so that my grandmother was in school in Louisville. Um, which leaves--then I go back to my patriarchal part of my father&#039 ; s family, and they moved to Louisville in, around 1860 also, from Germany, and I have virtually no record of--I&#039 ; ve been able to find not any information on why they&#039 ; re here, uh, uh, where they came from in Germany. Clear they were German. I have looked at the census records. They were all cattle traders, they all lived within a block of the stockyards, and, uh, um, the family was very involved in stock trading, which was the normal, uh, Jewish--a very normal Jewish occupation in Germany. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, but, I, I don&#039 ; t know why they came and I don&#039 ; t know how they ended up here. ELY: And were they also part of the Adath Israel community? JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: Okay. And, uh, you have some very distinguished architects in your family. How--start that story. Where does that begin? JOSEPH: All right. My, uh, grandfather, uh, was, uh, went to Manual High School and apprenticed himself to McDonald &amp ; Dodd, which was a very prominent architectural firm at that time. Uh, and, uh, his brother--and learned architecture through apprenticeship. His brother--younger brother, uh, became an engineer, got a degree from the University of Michigan, and in 1908--during the time they were at McDonald &amp ; Dodd did some really nice buildings. One of the buildings that he was most proud of was the old Presbyterian Seminary now, on Jefferson Community College on Broadway. Um, in 1908 they started their own firm, not--my father--my grandfather and his brother, which was the original Joseph &amp ; Joseph, and they became involved in a number of major projects and had a specialty in distillery design, and designed most all of Brown-Forman, did National Distillers, uh, Seagram, um, Stitzel-Weller. Worked on a lot of distillery projects, as well as some, some substantial, uh, Jewish buildings ; they did the new Jewish hospital, Jewish community center, uh, Kneseth, uh, a number of buildings in Louisville. Uh, in early 1930s, my father and his first cousin, the son of other architects, graduated from Manual together, went to the University of Pennsylvania together, uh, in architecture, and when they graduated, came back to Louisville. So, it was Joseph &amp ; Joseph &amp ; Joseph &amp ; Joseph, um, which was quite a-- ELY: Easy to remember. JOSEPH: Easy to remember, um, but--and was fine, except there was no work because it was the middle of the Depression and Louisville did not have enough, um, building to support the four of them. So, my, um, grandfather&#039 ; s brother and his son moved to Los Angeles and formed Joseph &amp ; Joseph in Los Angeles, and that, that left Joseph &amp ; Joseph in Louisville, which was my grandfather and my father. And, uh, so that firm is continued today through, uh, the Motor family, which was very close to my dad and kept the name, doing some--continuing to do some wonderful building. ELY: So the firm still exists but it&#039 ; s Los Angeles based now? JOSEPH: No, no. The firm-- ELY: No? JOSEPH: --Joseph &amp ; Joseph is here, but there are no-- ELY: That&#039 ; s what I thought. JOSEPH: --there are no Josephs involved with it, but, uh, um, they&#039 ; ve kept the name and, and, kept the, the history. ELY: So what buildings around town are still standing that you know that they designed? JOSEPH: Well we have them--the, uh-- ELY: Some of the distilleries. JOSEPH: Well, we, we talked about the distillery, I talked about the Jefferson Community College. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: The United Way building-- ELY: Great building. JOSEPH: --on Broadway is theirs. Uh, uh, I mentioned various Jewish buildings, uh, the Lions Club Eye Bank is part of Jewish Hospital, uh, was my dad&#039 ; s. Um, uh, the--there are major buildings around the state. Um, for example, when my dad came back in the 1930s, there was almost no work here, so he spent three years in Morehead, Kentucky, uh, and he was the principle architect for Morehead State University, uh, and actually, uh, worked in conjunction with Olmsted--Frederick Law Olmsted firm in New York that designed Central Park and designed all the parks here, and when you look at the historical markings of, uh, at, at Morehead, it&#039 ; s a combination of Joseph &amp ; Joseph and Olmsted, which is, puts it in pretty interesting company. ELY: Very elite company. JOSEPH: Um, they-- ELY: They designed some movie theaters, too, I think for the Sweito chain? JOSEPH: The Rialto--thank you. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: He did, uh, the Rialto, the Majestic, I&#039 ; m not sure about the Mary Anderson, but they, they did a number of, um, uh, uh, uh, buildings in New Albany. They did the old Atherton Hospital, which is now, uh, something middle school. They did Hazelwood Elementary, uh, um, they did, uh, Eddyville State Prison, uh, which is an interesting departure from their normal work, and, uh, a number of theaters. I think the Rialto was the--was my granddad&#039 ; s favorite. ELY: Any of the buildings on Fourth Street now? They may have been used for different purposes, but-- JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m sorry, I didn&#039 ; t-- ELY: They may--some of the buildings may be used for different purposes now, but-- JOSEPH: Oh, all the buildings are for different purposes. Yeah. ELY: --right. JOSEPH: Um, and--yes. ELY: Well, they clearly got a lot of important commissions. Do you think that they&#039 ; re being Jewish, uh, was a factor at all? They did a lot of work for the Jewish community, obviously, but any, um, anti-Semitism? I have to keep asking this question about anti-Semitism. Often the answer is, no, not at all, but I&#039 ; m just throwing it out there. JOSEPH: I didn&#039 ; t get any feel that there was. Now, it was interesting because Joseph &amp ; Joseph did all, all the Jewish work, Nolan &amp ; Nolan did all the Catholic work, um. There was some religious recognition to be sure, um, but I, I--that was not something that I--that I had heard. ELY: Okay. Seems probably more of an advantage to them to be connected with the Jewish community because there was so much building going on, uh, for, uh, not just the organized community, but for entrepreneurs like the Sweitos with the movie theaters. So it was a good connection. JOSEPH: Well, and, and, now that you mention that, they did the Bensinger Building on Main Street, for the old furniture store, and the Sweitos. And, and there were--there was Louisville--there was the standard country club, and--so they did have the contacts, and clearly--but one of their principle contracts was, in later years, was Jewish Hospital, which he did a lot of work for. ELY: Um-hm. And this is a tricky question. I&#039 ; m not sure I could answer it. Was there anything, since they were artists in a sense, was there anything that you could say was Jewish aesthetically or philosophically in their work? Do you think that they were influenced perhaps by their European roots or by--have you ever thought about it? JOSEPH: I have. Uh, actually, uh, and I don&#039 ; t think there was anything Jewish in it. Interestingly, if you look at--my grandfather was a Shriner for eighty years, and if you notice, any, any influence, it&#039 ; s a, uh, sort of a, um--searching for a word--uh, Middle Eastern-- ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: --but not necessarily Jewish influence that, that, that has some antecedents in, in, in, uh, the Shriner tradition. I, uh, and, it&#039 ; s covered--if you were to take off the façade of the, uh, United Way building on Broadway, you&#039 ; d see a good deal of that, uh, but there are other places that that&#039 ; s, that&#039 ; s true of. Um, but I don&#039 ; t know anything, uh, I remember when Dad was designing the temple and when he was designing Kneseth, Kneseth, there was a lot of research done, but the major--but I don&#039 ; t think there was anything other than the influence of the, of the, um, specific congregations that had specific, um, interests and things that they wanted to reflect in those designs that they had brought because of their, uh, Jewish religion. ELY: There was a, sort of a fad for Moorish architecture that you see in the synagogues and in the theaters, too, and then there&#039 ; s the classicism people went to when they wanted to hark back to Greece, and, and early American, and then modernism. Your dad designed the current Kneseth Israel on Taylorsville, or the earlier building? JOSEPH: On, on Taylorsville Road, yeah. ELY: Okay, which tries to be very modern in its appearance, so, there&#039 ; s fads in architecture, too. I just wondered if you saw any kind of a through line in their work. JOSEPH: I don&#039 ; t. ELY: Okay. Just interesting little diversion here. Um, okay. So, let&#039 ; s switch back to the personal now for a minute, and, uh, tell me your parent&#039 ; s names and when and where they were born, just. JOSEPH: Okay. My father was Alfred S. Joseph, Jr., I&#039 ; m Alfred S. Joseph, III. Um, obviously a strange relationship to Jewish tradition, but I am the third, which reflects the reform tradition. My father was born in Louisville, uh, I&#039 ; m not gonna get a year right, but I in I think 1912, um, and I was born here in 1943. Mother was born in Little Rock, as we&#039 ; ve discussed. ELY: And her name? JOSEPH: Her name was Dorothy Cone, originally C-o-h-n, and changed in nineteen--the middle of 1930 to C-o-n-e, because there was clearly some anti-Semitic effect on my grandparents that they thought the change in name might, might mitigate. ELY: Hm. Do you know what the name Joseph was originally? JOSEPH: No. ELY: I&#039 ; m assuming it wasn&#039 ; t Joseph in Germany. JOSEPH: It, it--I, I--a very frustrating part of my historical research that I can&#039 ; t, uh, I just am completely blocked from the Joseph side. ELY: So, you were born in Louisville in 1943? JOSEPH: I was born in Louisville at Baptist Hospital, uh, which was, uh, another Joseph &amp ; Joseph building, actually-- ELY: (laughs) JOSEPH: --over off of Broadway. Um, and, and that building has now run full cycle. They&#039 ; re trying to re, recycle it again. Um, but, yes, I was born in Louisville. ELY: And, do you have brothers and sisters? JOSEPH: I have a sister who now lives in Atlanta. She&#039 ; s three years younger than I am. ELY: And, uh, what neighborhood did you live in when you were growing up? JOSEPH: Well, that&#039 ; s an interesting question. I grew up, uh, block and a half from the Baptist seminary on Lexington Road, uh, and, uh, any--of all the things that I think have affected my life, that neighborhood, uh, was probably the most important because I went to Clark School then to Barret Junior High School before going to Atherton, uh, and with one exception, I had never been in a class with anyone in public schools that was Jewish until I got to high school. Uh, and the Baptist seminary was a critical part of my growing up because so many of my friends were affiliated--families affiliated with the seminary. So it affected, uh, how, I, I looked at things in a way that would not have been the case had I grown up in the Highlands where--which was, uh, where most Jewish families lived at the time. ELY: Did you find yourself in religious debates with your friends, or? JOSEPH: Well, sure. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, and I was always the one, it, it--there were major differences, uh, for example, um, at Barret Junior High there were never any sock-hops like at Highland, where there were always sock-hops. And to this day, I&#039 ; ll say, &quot ; I never learned to dance because I grew up Baptist.&quot ; Uh, uh, and, um, whenever there was a holiday, I would be asked to come to the front of the class and say, we have someone Jewish in the class explain this. But there was also a heavy dose of Christmas music and very religious music that I&#039 ; m sure was not, uh, part of the Highland experience. ELY: Did, did you ever object to that in any way, or did you just go along? JOSEPH: Uh, I, I, I--object is perhaps too strong a word. I&#039 ; ve certainly felt it and I--my parents talked with the teachers a little bit about it. I never felt that it was, um, pushed--I never felt pushed by it. Uh, I had an identity that recognized it, um, uh, and the Baptist seminary at that time was a much more open place than it is today. Um, most people don&#039 ; t recognize, for example, that Rabbi Waller got his doctorate in divinity at the Baptist seminary. ELY: I did not know that. JOSEPH: Uh, and interestingly, one of his classmates, who is Monsignor Horrigan, who was the first president of Bellermine. Uh, uh, and so that you had a very prominent Catholic and a very prominent Jew getting, uh, doctorates of divinity at a Baptist seminary. And, it--the--one of my closest friends, who continues to be a close friend to the day, uh, was the son of the president of the Baptist seminary, and I spent probably as many hours at the--at that home as I did at mine, and had the opportunity at one point to meet Billy Graham. I mean, it was--it was a whole different world for me, but I never, uh, from that group, never felt, um, that I was--that they were trying to convert me or pressure me. Um, it was a, a, a pretty, um, open experience. Now, that changed when I went to high school, because at Atherton at that time there were, uh, social clubs, um, that, um, were a very important part of the social youth, and at the center there were BBYO clubs, and other clubs that were important, and all of my friends, my closest friends, were non-Jewish, and I was told, absolutely, that there was no way that I was gonna be in one of their social clubs. Um, and, um, so that drew me to the center, and I was a member of Pi Tau Pi at the center, um, not necessarily because those were my closest friends, but because, if I wanted to be in the social activity, um, it wasn&#039 ; t going to be with the people that I&#039 ; d grown up with. ELY: Hmm. I&#039 ; ve heard a lot about the social clubs at the center, and the important role it played in people&#039 ; s lives, but I didn&#039 ; t realize that it was because there were high school clubs that were restricted also in town. JOSEPH: Well the other clubs were very restricted, to be sure. ELY: So-- JOSEPH: Um, now, the, the, the experience at the center was a remarkable experience for me because these were people that I had been to Sunday school with but had not known well, uh, and, uh, it was a--I very much enjoyed that, but it was not because--it was not my first choice ; my first choice was to stay with my friends. ELY: Were your friends embarrassed at all about that, or was it just an accepted thing? JOSEPH: It was an accepted thing. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, and there were, uh, I mean, there were worse things that happened. I mean, I remember as a kid, one of my friends took me to the Louisville Country Club and we were swimming, uh, and, uh, the lifeguard blew the whistle ; everybody out, there&#039 ; s a Jew in the pool. Uh, and the family was asked not to bring that person back if they wanted to continue to be a member of the, uh, of the Louisville Country Club. Um, so it isn&#039 ; t as if I haven&#039 ; t experienced something much more dramatic than that, but, um, the, uh, the social clubs in high school were pretty--were pretty clear that it was Jewish and non-Jewish. ELY: Going back to the pool for a minute, I mean, I could say, &quot ; How did that make you feel?&quot ; and the answer is probably terrible, but did--did you talk to your parents about it? JOSEPH: Oh sure. ELY: Did you talk to your friend? Your friend&#039 ; s parents? What did people say? JOSEPH: Yeah, and they were- they were--they withdrew from the, from the, from the, from the club, actually, as a result of that. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: But it--but you--but one was very clear at that time that Jews were not accepted at several of the country clubs, uh, and some of the social clubs, uh, downtown, uh, and that continued certainly--I don&#039 ; t know that it&#039 ; s ended in every place, but it--but it was certainly a prominent thing. I joined--when I came back to Louisville in 1972 from Washington, uh, I was told by several major law firms that they didn&#039 ; t interview Jews. Uh, so that&#039 ; s as late as &#039 ; 72. Now, those--those firms have now changed, but, but that was clear, and when I, uh, was a member of a firm that was very active with the Pendennis Club, um, uh, they asked if I would like to become a member because they were trying to transition from a very restrictive situation to something that was less so, and I--that&#039 ; s certainly not something I had an interest in, although it was interesting to have the discussion. Um, but that kind of thing, uh--and the other situation that&#039 ; s so interesting, uh, I currently live in Indian Hills, which when I was growing up, uh, was very restricted, and, uh, effectively red-lined against blacks and Jews. Uh, and many of the deeds in Indian Hills, uh, had anti-Israelite and anti-black language in the--in the deeds, and certainly the, uh, realtors were not interested in selling homes to Jews over there. ELY: I heard a story once from John Yarmuth that when he moved to Glenview, his family moved, they were shunned by all the neighbors until the Binghams came over and shook their hands, and then suddenly they were okay. So, there&#039 ; s-- JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m sure that that&#039 ; s--yeah. ELY: --yeah, a period of transition there where the social norms were maybe starting to break down, but not quite--not quite yet. Well, circling back a little bit, in--growing up in your family, what kind of, um, uh, Jewish education did you have? What kind of Judaism did your parents practice? What, what was your relationship to that? JOSEPH: Uh, very, very, very, very reform. Um, we went to synagogue on the high holy days. Um, we probably went on Passover, uh, we had a Christmas tree at home, um, and, um, I went to Sunday school, reluctantly, uh, and with, uh, a good deal of pressure. But it was not a, uh, it was a not a day-to-day practicing of religion in the household. ELY: So it was a social identification in a way? You identified with the Adath Israel community? JOSEPH: Very strongly--very strongly iden--very strongly social identification. Mother and Dad were very close, were good friends with Rabbi and Mrs. Waller. Um, I remember vividly the fiftieth anniversary of my grandparents, uh, where we had, uh, only family there, but also, uh, Rabbi and Mrs. Waller and Rabbi and Mrs. Rowe, because I think they were all good friends. So, it was, it was a strong identification, but not a lot of, uh, of, of religious practice. ELY: Um-hm. And your education was through Sunday school, mainly? JOSEPH: To the extent there was education, as I said. ELY: Okay. (laughs) JOSEPH: I was--interestingly, I was not bar mitzvahed and I, and, until I had gone to college and came back to Louisville after having lived in Washington. I had never been to a bar mitzvah. ELY: Hmm. JOSEPH: So, that, that none of the, my friends who had bar mitzvahs here, none of, that was just not something that was part of the group with whom I ran. ELY: Did you, I think, did you go to a Jewish camp, or do other youth activities when you were young? Jewish youth activities? JOSEPH: Uh, I went to a camp in Wisconsin that was primarily Jewish, although there were no Jewish activities. I, I was with a group of, of five folks, uh, or six folks, who all were Jewish, and we stayed, uh, uh, we went through a number of years of camp together, um, but none of us, um, were actively involved in, in real religious activities. Interestingly, uh, the camp has, uh, uh, had a number of folks who came from the camp into very prominent Jewish activities ; the dean of Hebrew Union College now was at camp with me. Um, yeah. He was not--he&#039 ; s younger, but there were, and there were several rabbis that came out of camp. It was not a NFTY camp or an OFTY camp or any of those things, but it was primarily Jewish. ELY: And, uh, when you were growing up, did your, was your father involved in the Jewish community? Um, the organized Jewish community, with any groups or? JOSEPH: My father was not a participant. Uh, Mother was. Um, Mother was very active, uh, in the Council of Jewish Women. Am I throwing you off your list? ELY: I finished the first page. We&#039 ; re moving on. JOSEPH: Mother was very active in, um, National Council of Jewish Women. She, during the war she had gotten interested in mental illness, had done some work with returning veterans, uh, and got very interested in, uh, mental illness, and was one of the founders of Bridgehaven, which is, uh, a halfway house in Louisville, was the second president of Bridgehaven. Uh, she then became--then got interested in, uh, working, uh, with the state mental health program through National Council of Jewish Women, uh, and became the, uh, director of forensic psychiatry at Central State Hospital, uh, and special assistant to the commissioner of mental health, which was pretty remarkable because Mother never went to college. Uh, and, uh, received several national awards for her involvement in mental health. But all of it started with, uh, National Council of Jewish Women, uh, which she had gotten involved with through some, uh, influence of my grandmother, uh, who had been president of National Council of Jewish Women in 1920, and had used it as a vehicle in several educational programs, went beyond the Jewish community, and my grandmother had been very active also. ELY: What was your grandmother&#039 ; s name? JOSEPH: She was Helen Joseph. She was Helen Rothschild Joseph. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: She was part of the family that came from Shelbyville to Louisville. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, and, uh, so Mother had become very close friends with Fanny Rose Rosenbaum, uh, and with Betty Jane Fleischaker, and there was a whole group of women at that time who were, uh, certainly, um, in front of their time and doing really important, interesting things in the community. So, uh, I, my involvement in the community comes from Mother actually, rather than from Dad. Dad was very involved with work, but had, uh, no particular community involvement. ELY: Was there anybody else as you were growing up that was, uh, an influence on your life later? JOSEPH: Interestingly, um, there was, there was some, there was, in the ways of southern families and--it was a black lady that worked for my grandparents when I was growing up, and later worked for us, and, uh, she was a, the granddaughter of a slave, and her two grandkids I later got to know ; one was a CPA and one was a PhD teacher. And she started, she did everything in the family ; she helped my grandparents, she helped my parents, uh, subsequently she worked with, for Anne and me in, in raising our kids, and it was my--it was the experience with her that really, I think, created some interest in civil rights, in that she was, uh, clearly not formally educated, but clearly extraordinarily bright, determined that she was gonna change her family, which she did, determined that she was gonna, um, stand up for what she believed in, and determined that nobody was gonna speak down to her or give her sass. And, I can&#039 ; t help but think that starting with someone like that at an early age gave me a different perspective on, uh, um, civil rights, than had I not had that experience or had, um, had parents who were, uh, less, uh, tolerant or less concerned about civil rights than mine. My, my, my father had, um, at any early stage--and I don&#039 ; t remember all the details, but I remember he hired a black architect years and years before that would have happened, and a number of his, his clients just beat up on him. It was something that was discussed at home and it was a trauma for him, uh, and he was not somebody that was gonna go out and lead a civil rights, um, march, or do anything like that, but he needed an architect, somebody applied, the person was good, he hired him and sort of, that was the way it was. And reaction was something that was a, that was important in the household. So, there were a number of things like that that, that, I think, the lady was Dubby Overstreet and she probably influenced me a lot. ELY: Interesting. And, uh, she was with you through your childhood? JOSEPH: She, she started working for my parents, my grandparents, when I was about five, and she stayed working with the family through the time my kids finished elementary school, when they had their elementary school graduation she was--actually she may have been there for there, one of their high school--[break in recording]--family event, she was a part of. ELY: Hmm. And you still stay in touch with her family? You know her grandchildren? JOSEPH: No. ELY: No? JOSEPH: No, once she, once she died, that, I worked with her family on her estate, but I have not kept track. ELY: And, uh, then where did you go to college? What was that decision making process like? JOSEPH: Uh, well, uh, everyone that I went to camp with, uh, was interested in going to college, to an Ivy League college. Uh, the group that I mentioned, one went to Dartmouth, two went to Harvard, two went to Yale. Uh, so there was an influence to head--and my dad had been at Pennsylvania, and my granddad had been at Cornell. So, the thought was go east. And I was thinking about several schools, um, but there were several schools that had fraternities. And, I was conscious of not going to any school that had Jewish fraternities. I&#039 ; d--the whole high school thing that I mentioned to you was an important thing to me that I wanted to avoid in college. Uh, a good friend of mine, uh, from high school, and fellow named Fred Kurim, who was Lebanese, uh, and had been very important friend of mine since junior--since grade school, actually, uh, went to a school called Wesleyan in Connecticut. Wesleyan at that time was known as part of the &quot ; Little Three&quot ; ; Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan, and the big three were Yale, Harvard and Princeton. And Fred was very influential in getting me to apply to Wesleyan, and, uh, explained that the, that there were fraternities there, but they were fraternities not related to the kind of, did not have the kind of concerns that I did, uh, and, uh, convinced me that it was a very small school, so I had an opportunity to, to meet professors in a way that I wouldn&#039 ; t at a bigger school, and there was no graduate school, so I wasn&#039 ; t competing for the professors&#039 ; time. So I went to Wesleyan. Uh, and I went to Wesleyan with a friend from Atherton who was non-Jewish, um, and we roomed together our first year. Uh, we, we joined a fraternity, which was a very interesting experience because, in my fraternity class, there were, uh, I thin five Jews, five or six Catholics, two blacks, um, everything was, was completely different than most fraternities, and, and, it, it offered an opportunity to--I had Catholic roommates two years, I had a black roommate one year. I&#039 ; ll come back to that because he was a major influence. But it, it was a very expansive, rather than limiting, situation. ELY: So were there, um, explicitly Jewish activities that the fraternity did, or was there another place on campus where you could say, go for high holidays or Passover? JOSEPH: Well, it was a very--there were only, uh, 190 in my class. So, Wesleyan was very small. There was, uh, if there was Hillel at all on campus, uh, I never darkened its doors. ELY: Never found it. JOSEPH: But it was interesting, uh, there was a congregation, uh, two blocks from the fraternity house ; Adath Israel, interestingly. Uh, and I, I attended high holy day services there, and actually, um, was dating the, my first year, dated a woman that I, uh, was, uh, a senior in high school at the time, at Adath Israel, and there was a--so I did participate in, in, in things there. In the fraternity, um, it was interesting because there was always a blessing before the meal, uh, and you rotated through so that you had a mixture of, of, of Jewish blessings, Catholic blessings. We had, uh, the president was Mormon. Um, there was a little bit of everything, which I found, uh, just delightful, and, and, and very interesting. ELY: Ecumenical group. JOSEPH: Absolutely. ELY: And, uh, what years were you in college? JOSEPH: Uh, um, I was in college--I graduated in &#039 ; 65, so I was there from &#039 ; 61 to &#039 ; 65. ELY: So you were in college during a very pivotal time of change on college campuses. JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: So, were you involved at all with politics when you were in college? JOSEPH: Well, I was, I had a special view to history, uh, interestingly. Um, my junior year I roomed with a gentleman named, uh, Ron Young. Uh, Ron had been assistant minister to Reverend, uh, James Lawson--excuse me--who was a minister in, uh, Memphis, and was the person who organized SNCC ; Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. And had been the mentor of John Lewis. And, Ron took of a year to work with James Lawson as part of the Civil Rights Movement. Wesleyan had, the year that he came back, actually Martin Luther King gave the commencement address at Wesleyan, um, and I had, at that time Wesleyan had the highest number--not the highest percentage, but the highest absolute number of kids going on the Mississippi Summer Project. Um, one of--the fellow who lived next door to me had been, uh, in Cleveland, Mississippi, and between the first floor and the second floor of the jail had gotten a concussion and two broken ribs from the sheriff. Um, so that the Mississippi Summer Project and what was happening in Memphis were not academic things to me. I knew an awful lot of people who had gone to Mississippi, and Ron later became chairman of the Fellowship of Reconciliation, which organized the peace march on Washington. Uh, actually, uh, lived with us in Washington for six months while that was being organized. So, all the commotion in the 60s was very personal, and, uh, having a--it was more personalized by the fact that my third roommate at the time was black, um, and came home with us at one point in 1964, and people think of segregated hotels, etcetera, in the South. The rule coming home from school was, you had to stop--we drove--and you had to stop one night because we didn&#039 ; t want to be too tired. So we were coming through West Virginia and northern Ohio, and we went to eight hotels before they would let the two of us stay in the same room together, notwithstanding the fact that we lived together, uh, all the time. And ultimately, the only reason they did was that he had a dashiki with him and we told them that he was, uh, African royalty so it didn&#039 ; t count, and, and ultimately that&#039 ; s how we did it. It turns out he was from Nigeria, but if we had not explained that he was African royalty, we would probably still be driving looking for a, a hotel. So, all of that, um, was certainly of influence, uh, in terms of, uh, things that, that happened in my world of civil rights. ELY: So, you went to Mississippi then, or later? JOSEPH: I did not. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: No, I did not, but I knew so many folks that did. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: At that time, uh, I was trying to determine what my thesis was gonna be, because I wanted to graduate with honors ; to do that you had to have a thesis. And, it did convince me that I was going to look at, at--I&#039 ; ll use the terminology of the time--Negro leadership in Louisville. So, I got a grant from the Falk Foundation in Philadelphia, uh, to do, to spend five semesters researching black legal leadership in Louisville, and, uh, had--took off a summer and met with most every meaningful black leader in Louisville, uh, for my thesis. And, subsequently worked for the Human Relations Commission in using some of the data, and the Human Relations Commission published a book that I&#039 ; d written, a pamphlet I&#039 ; d written, uh, on the results of the, of the, of that study. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, it gave me, uh, contact with an awful lot of folks I never would have met, um, and it, it--I was blessed by the fact that the family had a tradition with black leadership. The, um, my, um, oldest black funeral home is Porter Funeral Home, and Woody Porter, Sr., uh, was, you may recall, head of the board of trustees of University of Louisville, at the time, um, but my grandfather had designed the first Porter funeral home, and my father worked with, uh, Woody Porter, Sr., on their funeral home, so that there had been a tie in the families that way, where--and Mr. Porter was very helpful in, in getting, um, me the opportunity to meet with Lyman Johnson and a whole lot of other--Frank Stanley, Sr. A number of folks. It turns out that Lyman Johnson, who&#039 ; s a very well-known black leader in Louisville, went to University of Michigan where I was going to law school. So he took me under his wing, and I was helped to find things in ways I never could have done before. ELY: So, do you feel like you were getting a sort of sense of mission? That you were going to help Louisville with its racial divide and-- JOSEPH: There was no mission at that time. ELY: Right. (laughs) JOSEPH: It was purely--it was an academic situation, solely. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: And, um--excuse me--um, but that was, it was not a mission at that point. ELY: Right. So, you decided in the course of this to go to law school? JOSEPH: I decided to go to law school, um, and I&#039 ; d pretty much had it with the East. It was fairly condescending, um, and I was clearly an outsider. ELY: Because you were a Southerner or Jew or both? JOSEPH: Um, a little bit of both. Um, more, more Southerner, but it was also, um, I was a public school guy, and Wesleyan--as with many of the schools at that time--was about seventy-five percent prep school folks ; Andover, Exeter, Choate, uh, I was at Atherton. And, and, and Atherton at that time did not have the reputation that Andover, Exeter or Choate did. So, there was a little bit of snobbery that way. Um, it was interesting, I had, my first date at Wesleyan was with the twin sister of a very close friend, and my close friend was the son of the president of Lincoln Center, had been president of Julliard and had a--was Jewish--had a very high, uh, social standing in New York. And so, we went out on, we went out on a date. My date said, &quot ; You know, I don&#039 ; t understand how a good school like Wesleyan could allow somebody like you to come, because you don&#039 ; t have the cultural background to absorb, um, the education they&#039 ; re trying to provide.&quot ; And it went downhill from there. ELY: Wow. JOSEPH: So, I very quickly started to realize that, if I was going to have a social life that left any of my ego intact-- ELY: (laughs) JOSEPH: --I would, uh, be dating women who were western and southern, rather than eastern. So, when it came time to, uh, go to law school, um, my professor--my advisor had pushed me very hard, uh, to go to Harvard, and I just wasn&#039 ; t gonna do it. So, Michigan, at that point, had, uh, twenty-eight thousand women, which was twenty-eight thousand more than Wesleyan had, and I decided that that was a good place to go. Uh, and so I ended up in law school in Ann Arbor. ELY: Um-hm. And at what point did you meet your wife? JOSEPH: Um-- ELY: There or later? JOSEPH: No, well--I&#039 ; ll digress to that, okay? ELY: Well, to tell, tell me more about--we&#039 ; ll do it chronologically. JOSEPH: No, well we can do that, because Michigan has a, has a role in that. Um, from the eighth grade through college I was dating, uh, a woman from Louisville, Lynn Lewis, um, who--off and on, but who went to Sophie Newcomb, um, and one of her close friends at Sophie Newcomb was Anne Webman, later to be Anne Joseph. And, uh, um, about our junior year, Anne came home with Lynn and we met at that point, had a date, we were not interested in one another at all, and I continued to date Lynn. And, when I went to Michigan, Lynn transferred from, uh, Newcomb to Michigan, in part so that we could be together. Well, in the intervening years she met and married, uh, Dr. Ken Silk, who&#039 ; s remained a very, very close friend, and Anne and I were both in their wedding. Uh, and, um, still weren&#039 ; t interested in one another, uh, but were with a group of friends who, uh, had us both at their weddings, and ultimately, when I moved to Washington, she moved to Washington the same week from Boston where she had been working, and we started dating then and got married a year later. But we got married through the Louisville connection of, of the Lewis family. ELY: So, back to law school. JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m doing damage to your outline. ELY: No, that&#039 ; s okay. I&#039 ; d rather have it be organic, so that&#039 ; s fine. When you were in law school, did you, um, have a particular vision for the kind of law you wanted to do and where you wanted to do it? JOSEPH: Absolutely. Um, I knew the first day I did not want to be a litigator, did not want to go to court, did not want to talk publically, did not want to do any of those things. Uh, and I didn&#039 ; t want to do--uh, my law school yearbook says, &quot ; Urban Development Law&quot ; as my choice, and I had--I was working for a professor who was very involved in civil rights matters, and we worked on civil rights, and actually, uh, worked with governor, with then Governor Romney--George Romney, not the son-- ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: --on the drafting of the, uh, Michigan open housing statute, and so that most of my research at that time was in civil rights law, and I wrote several papers on urban development, housing statutes, what was happening in, in with then FHA before it became HUD. So, that was what I wanted to do. I wasn&#039 ; t ready to come back to Louisville. I wanted to go to Washington. So, um, uh, my applications were to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and to the Office of Economic Opportunity, which was the site of, of President Johnson&#039 ; s war on poverty. ELY: HUD must have been brand new then, wasn&#039 ; t it? JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m sorry? ELY: HUD was brand new then? JOSEPH: HUD was absolutely brand new. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: It, it was, um, they were just hiring the initial people, and, uh, uh, I think the first year for HUD was 1967, which was when I was applying, so it was all, it was, everything was new and it was a completely different organization than it is now. ELY: So it&#039 ; s interesting that the civil rights and the family background in architecture kind of come together with the work on housing issues. JOSEPH: Well, it was a very natural thing. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, and, uh, I was not unaware of that. My dad had--Dad had wanted me very much to come into the architectural firm, and I, I didn&#039 ; t want to do that for a whole variety of reasons. But when I was at Wesleyan, um, other than the civil rights stuff that I was doing with respect to the, uh, thesis, uh, all of my study was on urban renewal, uh, city planning, uh, history of architecture, uh, and, and, it, it was, so it, but HUD was the place that was most likely that I wanted to be. It turns out that I was much more interested in HUD than they were in me, uh, so I, I did not get a job offer, uh, and, uh, interestingly I didn&#039 ; t get a job--I was turned down at OEO, also. Uh, so I was looking for a job between my second and third years of law school, and I got a call from OEO-- ELY: OEO is? JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m sorry. The Office of Economic Opportunity. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: The poverty program. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: From OEO saying, um, in effect, uh, &quot ; We&#039 ; ve, we know we turned you down. Um, the people we wanted, the person we wanted got sick. Are you too proud to, uh, take a job where you&#039 ; re not first choice?&quot ; And I said, &quot ; Well, I have a lot of weaknesses, but pride won&#039 ; t, wouldn&#039 ; t interfere with that.&quot ; So, I, uh, worked with them, with OEO, my second, after my second year in law school. Just loved it. It was a remarkable, remarkable group of people, uh, and they offered me a job after law school, and so, that&#039 ; s where I ended up there. But, it, the, the people that Johnson had working for Sargent Shriver, and Sarge had, were just remarkable. ELY: And what kind of work did you do there? JOSEPH: Um, OEO was divided into several groups. I was with the, what was called community action, and community action, uh, had, uh, a variety of programs, initiated a variety of programs, including Head Start, uh, legal services, foster grandparents, uh, and a variety of manpower programs. Um, my principle thing was with manpower programs, although I was, uh, worked with interagency civil rights group, um, with folks like John Doar, at civil rights, justice, uh, and, um, uh, create, and, and, programs, uh, innovative programs like healthcare with Park DuValle Health Center was funded by OEO in 1968, uh, I did the legal sign off on that. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Uh, and, so, it was a variety of things. I did not do, um, Vista--any of the Vista work, and did not do any Job Corps work. So basically there were three, three major areas, and I was doing mostly research and development and manpower kinds of things. ELY: So when you lived in Washington--and what years were you in Washington? JOSEPH: I was in Washington, um, the summer of &#039 ; 67 through &#039 ; 72. ELY: Okay. Uh, so where&#039 ; d you live in Washington? JOSEPH: Uh, I lived in George--in Georgetown, right across, uh, on Twenty-fifth Street, right across, uh, the Rock Creek Parkway, and worked, um, near DuPont Circle. Uh, while I was with OEO. Later when, uh, Anne and I were married, uh, we, uh, moved to, uh, southeast, uh, four blocks behind the Library of Congress. ELY: You were pioneers in Capitol Hill area? JOSEPH: It was a bizarre area. Um, it was becoming gentrified. Our street had about half professionals and half welfare folks. Uh, and all of the, um, controversies, uh, were other than what you would anticipate. Uh, for example, uh, there was a very, very well-known house of prostitution, uh, around the corner from us, uh, and the major-- ELY: Close to the Capitol. Makes sense, yeah. Yeah. JOSEPH: It was the Capitol. Uh, and, the issue was that, on Saturday night, because of the, uh, the occupation and the interest in the community, it was very hard for the residents to park. So we had to negotiate parking, uh, a parking arrangement, where they didn&#039 ; t interfere with the residents. But it was a wonderful situation in that everyone talked to one another ; our next door neighbor was on welfare, our congressman was, lived across the street from us, and everyone really got along. Um, it was a very, very high crime area. There was no house--in the year and a half we lived there, there was no house that was not burglarized, uh, including ours ; we were burglarized one night. Uh, and, when you walked down the street, uh, after dark, you walked in the middle of the road. You didn&#039 ; t walk on the sidewalk. But, I was, by that time, I was working on the Hill and could walk to work very easily, and, and loved being down there. It, it was a very rapidly changing area, though. ELY: Was there a Jewish community there, in the area? Or were you part of a Jewish community when you went to Washington? JOSEPH: Well, we were very, we were part of the Jewish community, but, but there was, there was no synagogue on Capitol Hill, that I remember. We, we joined a synagogue, uh, uh, actually, that was in Maryland, uh, we were married in Washington at Temple Sinai. Uh, and, part of the reason for that was the Rabbi was extraordinarily, uh, well-respected gentleman in D.C. ; he was the head of the ACLU, which fascinated me, and, and, we were very--we were active at the temple there, but not in, uh, downtown Washington. ELY: So, at some point something brought you back to Louisville? JOSEPH: I&#039 ; d already, I&#039 ; d always known that, um, uh, I was gonna come back to Louisville, and at the point that, uh, um, it became clearer that, that I didn&#039 ; t want to stay in Washington. Uh, I&#039 ; d left OEO and was civil rights counsel for House judiciary, which was an interesting experience that I, I gather will come up in your questioning. But, um, I wanted to come back to Louisville. I&#039 ; d always wanted to come back to Louisville and Anne knew I wanted to come back to Louisville. So, um, we, in &#039 ; 72, decided that that was the time, and we took--we didn&#039 ; t--there were a lot of things we wanted to do, so we sold everything we owned, took seven months and came from the Arctic Circle to the Sahara, um, before coming back, and, um, then came back to Louisville to, to practice law with a private law firm. ELY: Interesting. Will you have a story about the House judiciary when you were there, or? JOSEPH: Well, House judiciary was interesting because, um, I was doing a, um, primarily involved in, uh, working with the enforcement of the Voting Rights Act, and, uh, President Nixon, uh, and John Mitchell were really doing everything possible not to enforce the Voting Rights Act because southern states were their primary voting base, um, and I as co-counsel-- ELY: Sounds so familiar. (both laugh) Go on. JOSEPH: Things don&#039 ; t change. But, uh, I was co-counsel with a fellow who, black lawyer, who was, had been at Columbia law school, been born in Havana, uh, and the two of us had some, uh, really interesting experiences, uh, partly relating to being Jewish. I spent a lot of time in Mississippi, um, um, which was the concentration of our study, uh, and was down there for weeks at a time, and, was interesting because we were not allowed to travel, uh, without FBI protection. So if we left Jackson to go to Coahoma County, we would have an FBI agent as a driver, uh, and my most interesting experience was, uh, the Hinds County registrar was very cooperative, and, uh, very helpful. Asked, we were there over a weekend, and he said, &quot ; Would you come to my brother&#039 ; s house for dinner one night?&quot ; And I said, &quot ; Be happy to, but I have to clear it with the FBI.&quot ; So I got FBI clearance for, to go to the house, and we sat down to dinner, and in Southern tradition, his brother-in-law was at the head of the table and I was sitting to his right and his wife was at the other end of the table, and she brought out a plate of pork chops. And, uh, I don&#039 ; t keep kosher, have never have, so the gentleman offered me the platter and I took it, and put a pork chop on my plate, and he said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m glad you took that. If I thought you were one of those New York Jews, and if you hadn&#039 ; t eaten that I would have blown your head off.&quot ; Um, and that was Mississippi at the time. ELY: Wow. JOSEPH: Um, and, um, so I was very, the Jewishness was mixed in, aside from the fact that being from Kentucky I was a northerner, which was an interesting experience, um, uh, there was a, a, a, clearly a Jewish consciousness in the whole Mississippi situation. And, I had been very conscious of the Jewish civil rights aspect of things because at OEO, the two people that were really involved in organizational kind of things, came--it filtered over as principle, um, hearing subjects, at, at, at House judiciary, where a gentleman named Hy Bookbinder, who was later, uh, who, at that point, the intergovernmental relations director at OEO, uh, and was subsequently the chief lobbyist for the American Jewish Committee, uh, and he was very, very involved in Jewish activities, and, and whatever, and brought a Jewish perspective to this whole aspect of poverty and civil rights. Um, he is somebody that I stayed close to, and he had offered me a job as his assistant as lobbyist for AJC, and I didn&#039 ; t want it. It wasn&#039 ; t enough law, I didn&#039 ; t want to do that. Another fellow was named Joe Rauh, uh, who, uh, was the chairman of the, um, conference on civil, Leadership Conference on Civil Rights, and was a principal draftsman for the Civil Rights Act of &#039 ; 64 and the Voting Rights Act of &#039 ; 65. And so that, when you were involved in, in, in leadership activities at, um, the legislative level, the Jewish community was very, very visible. Uh, and both Joe Rauh and Booky were, were, made one very conscious that if you were Jewish, you were in the place that, that other were, were leading. ELY: Um-hm. And, uh, that consciousness of the Jewish involvement in the Civil Rights Movement was part of the consciousness of the people who were in the South, who-- JOSEPH: Oh, sure. ELY: --dubious, the guy was gonna blow your head off, was, um, not only aware that you were Jewish, he was making distinctions between a true southern Jew and one of those northerners. JOSEPH: Well, I think that, that, that an awful lot of southern folks thought that every Jew was a civil rights person, and, and a communist. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, um, of course a lot of the Jewish leadership, like Hy Bookbinder, came from garment workers and other labor unions. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, uh, and from big cities and organizational things, the organizational skills that they brought to the movement came from, from labor, in, in many ways. Um, but yeah, for sure the South was, was conscious. ELY: Um-hm. So, when you came, uh, back to Louisville, there were some people working on civil rights issues and open housing issues at that point, or was that more earlier than when you came back? JOSEPH: Well, I was out, I was away from Louisville from 1961 to 1973. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: And, a lot of the sit-ins and things of that nature, uh, had passed. But, the big issue, aside--and, and some of the white testing that Anne Braden did, and, and whatever, was still lingering, but I--it wasn&#039 ; t something that I was involved in. Um, the thing that, that I was most involved in, I came back, I was chairman of, uh, Legal Aid Society, which was the principle counsel for the plaintiffs in the bussing issue. And so, um, several times during the time that I was chairman of legal aid, we had the grand poohbah of the Klan come to our meetings. Uh, and, uh, that relationship was an, an interesting one. Um, but, but of all the civil rights movements that were most active at the time I came back, it was clearly a blessing. ELY: Um-hm. And this was when they were integrating Jefferson County Public Schools? JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: And, and, I can&#039 ; t, I can&#039 ; t do--my capacity to do timing is, is difficult. Things have sort of melded. But, there, there was an old city, City of Louisville school system, and there was a county system, and the four city schools were Atherton, Shawnee, Male and Manual, and Central, because of course Central was the black school. And then other schools--Waggener, Seneca, Iroquois, all were county schools, and the city school system went bankrupt and, which caused the merger. And, somewhere around that time, that hit at the same time of, as bussing, so that, that there was restructuring of, of school boundaries based on both, uh, the bussing orders of the court, as well as the restructuring of the whole board of education. ELY: Hmm. And, at that time in the 70s, the Jewish community was pretty much moved to the suburbs, right? There was very little still in old Louisville? JOSEPH: Very little in old Louisville. Um, uh, there was still a high presence in the Highlands, but it was moving out, it was moving east, which was why the temple, uh, moved out there and Brith Sholom, and there was a merger with Brith Sholom and Adath Israel. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, um, then Kneseth moved out into the Highlands also. So, yeah, that was, um, I don&#039 ; t remember when the major presence was, was downtown, and, um-- ELY: So, do, do you remember what the Jewish community&#039 ; s reaction was to bussing? To the, um, agitation that was going on in the early 70s? JOSEPH: I, I, speaking as to what the-- ELY: Did everyone suddenly go to private school, or? JOSEPH: There were, there were--there really was, it was sort of as you expected ; the Jewish community was all over, although it&#039 ; s supposed to be speak with one voice, it hardly ever does. Um, we had friends that were very committed to, um, to bussing, and, and had their kids bussed. We had friends that had, um, um, uh, that sent their kids to private school. Um, it really was a mixture. Um, if I had to characterize generally, I think the, the Jewish community was more pro-bussing than anti-bussing. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, but it was a time of, of, the school system was, was, was very much in turmoil. Um, um, my two girls went to private school until high school because our neighborhood school, which was Chenoweth, uh, Brownsville Road and Chenoweth Lane was a disaster. Um, it was just one of the worst schools in town. Now, it wasn&#039 ; t a West End school, but we just couldn&#039 ; t, both girls, we, we were very wary of doing that. We did not send them to private school because we didn&#039 ; t want them bussed, but we couldn&#039 ; t get comfortable with the, with our neighborhood school. ELY: Right. So, since you brought up your family, so you and Anne were married in Washington. JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: And you moved back here, and, uh, you had two girls. JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: Uh, early 70s? JOSEPH: Uh, &#039 ; 74 and &#039 ; 79. ELY: And what are you daughters&#039 ; names? JOSEPH: Uh, our older daughter is Alix, A-l-i-x. She is a lawyer that lives in, in Denver. Uh, she is, uh, actually, uh, very involved in Jewish things growing up. She, at the time, when she was in high school, there was something called Junior Council, which was an affiliate of the National Council of Jewish Women, and they had programs for high school girls to do a variety of social, um, community, as distinguished from fun, community kinds of things, and she was local president and then was national president of Junior Council. Uh, and, uh, ended up being able to testify on the Hill when she was in high school. Uh, so she was very involved in, in, uh, Jewish communal affairs very early. Uh, she&#039 ; s, uh, uh, now a lawyer, lawyer, and she moved to Colorado to be a park ranger at Rocky Mountain National Park, and fell in love with the mountains. So she stayed in Denver and her interest has been primarily environmental. Her practice is water law. Um, and our younger daughter, uh, is, um, here in Louisville. Uh, she went to Wesleyan, following in my footsteps, uh, got very interested in things happening with museums, worked for the, uh, Kentucky Derby Museum, uh--[unrelated voice-over heard]--then, then got a, um, master&#039 ; s in museum education, and was the assistant director of education at the Ali Center, which was interesting because she had also been involved in, in working in the black community, and that was a wonderful opportunity, and now is, uh, I&#039 ; m not sure of her title, but, uh, works at, um, the Bernheim Arboretum doing community involvement, and, and training in volunteer work, coordination of volunteers. So, she&#039 ; s still here, um, and, uh, working at Bernheim. ELY: Okay. And we&#039 ; re skipping ahead in time. We&#039 ; ll go back again, but do you have grandchildren? JOSEPH: I have two grand boys, uh, two grandsons in, in Denver, and, um, it&#039 ; s an interesting thing that the family tradition of having the toilet seat down has now been changed, so. (both laugh) ELY: So, when your kids were growing up, when you and Anne had your own family, what kind of Jewish involvement did you have? Were you affiliated with the temple, or what kind of education did your girls have, Jewishly? JOSEPH: Well, um, I became a--I&#039 ; ll back up a minute. When I came back to Louisville-- ELY: &#039 ; Kay. JOSEPH: --I started a practice with Handmaker, Weber &amp ; Meyer, and Stuart Handmaker was the managing member, um, and Stuart was, at that time, chairman of the federation, president of the federation, and very involved in, in community activities. Shelly Weber was president of Jewish Hospital, very involved in things, and the two of them, uh, were very, uh, influential in getting me involved in communal activities. I had not been primarily interested in Jewish communal activities ; on was on a community action agency board, I was president of Legal Aid. Uh, it was in the broader community, and both of them sort of reined me in and said, &quot ; Wait a minute. You have an obligation to the Jewish community. Let&#039 ; s see what happens.&quot ; So they got me involved in the Community Relations Council of the federation, which was right up, the area that I, uh, really was most involved with. And, um, that, that was sort of the beginning of, of my involvement with the Jewish community. I was chairman of CRC [Community Relations Committee] for a number of years, um, and because of that, the girls started getting a little bit more involved in things, uh, um, because they would, everywhere I went, they were lead, uh, uh, and, uh, so they saw the involvement that I was doing. Anne was working, uh, for, um, National Council of Jewish Women projects at Park DuValle and on four Cs [Community Coordinated Child Care], and so, they saw both their parents, uh, doing things in the Jewish community, um, which is one reason Alix got involved with council, Junior Council, and, um, at that, the time Amy was in high school, uh, was when Kesher Kentucky was beginning, uh, and Amy was in the first class of Kesher, uh, which was a real influence on her. At that time, Kesher had an active program of history and of a variety of things, and it was a-- ELY: Sort of a high school program for-- JOSEPH: Yeah. ELY: --Jewish youth. JOSEPH: Yeah, a high school program for Jewish youth. And, so both of them were involved in Jewish activities. Neither of them, both of them started out at the center in a D.B. Wylde program, and neither of them found it interesting, and neither of them participated particularly in that. Um, both of them, unlike their parents, were bat mitvahed. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Uh, and, um, uh, both of them had a very good experience in that regard. ELY: And you had the usual Passover Seders and Hanukkah celebrations, and? JOSEPH: Well, it&#039 ; s interesting because that&#039 ; s a major change from when I was growing up. Anne&#039 ; s family, uh, was quite different from mine. Mine was old German background, um, most recent arrival was 1850. Uh, Anne&#039 ; s father was born in Russia, came to the United States, um, in the 20s. Anne&#039 ; s mom left Poland in 1939. Anne&#039 ; s grandmother, and we&#039 ; ve counted twenty-eight cousins, were killed in the camps. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: So, her background was very Easter European. Uh, as distinguished from mine. And the great tradition in her family was the Passover Seder, and there would be--depending on who you listened to--tens or hundreds of people at the, at her Seder, but the thing that always happened in the family because of Anne was we always had a big Seder. Uh, Anne, um, that was a real big deal. We, uh, also did not have a Christmas tree, like when I was growing up. So, there was a tempering of, uh, uh, uh, how celebrations occurred, um, in the house, but Passover was a really big deal and continues to, to be one of the major family trans--family happenings. ELY: Did you find you had any clashes about, uh, practice and philosophy with the Easter European versus German doctrine? JOSEPH: I know who&#039 ; s boss ; we never have a clash. ELY: Okay. (both laugh) JOSEPH: No, actually, I&#039 ; ve found, I&#039 ; ve found the tradition just wonderful, uh, and, it, it grew because we, I have, most of my social friends continue to be non-Jewish, so that they were part of the, uh, they became part of the group. Um, digressing a little, um, when I came back to Louisville, I was asked by the American Civil Liberty Union to litigate a case where a U of L student had been arrested because he had a marijuana plant in his window, and as part of the search warrant, they took, um, fifteen text books that had been sold at U of L bookstore as part of a psychology of drugs class. Uh, and, the Jefferson County Police Department was gonna burn the books, um, because there was a statute that said books and records seized in connection with controlled substances are to be destroyed. Uh, now, the normal reading for that would be ledger-slash- account books, rather than U of L text books. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: Um, but, um, the prosecuting attorney didn&#039 ; t read it that way. And so I took the case for ACLU, and a young man named Dave Armstrong was, um, running against then county--Commonwealth Attorney, Ed Schroering. And I went to Dave and I said, &quot ; Dave, what do you think about this?&quot ; He said, &quot ; Books means books and records. It doesn&#039 ; t mean text books. We&#039 ; re not Nazi Germany.&quot ; We don&#039 ; t, that was the foundation of the relationship with Dave. Um, I later managed several of his campaigns and we were very close friends, and back to the segue, for every Seder that we&#039 ; ve ever had, Dave Armstrong was a member of this, was at the Seder. We&#039 ; d go to his house for Christmas Eve, and he comes to our house for Seder. Um, and, uh, so the Seder has become, was a very important part of the family tradition. ELY: Right. And, for purposes of the record, he was the county judge/executive, and then the mayor? JOSEPH: David started as Commonwealth Attorney-- ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: --which is a prosecutor, uh, and then he became attorney general, Kentucky attorney general, uh, and then became county judge/executive and then the mayor. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: And, after that became, um, uh, commissioner, uh, commissioner of the Public Service Commission. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: But also very active in Jewish events, interestingly. Uh, went to the Soviet Union on behalf of immigration of Soviet Jews. ELY: Um-hm. Great. There&#039 ; s so many things we could keep talking about. We&#039 ; ve been talking for an hour and a half. I don&#039 ; t know if you want to take a break and we&#039 ; ll go on. JOSEPH: I&#039 ; m fine. ELY: Okay. I&#039 ; m okay. Um-- JOSEPH: I will take a drink of water. ELY: All right. Uh, I don&#039 ; t want to skip over your adult professional career here. I don&#039 ; t want to give it short shrift, because you&#039 ; ve been involved as an attorney and in the Jewish community with a lot of things that, that are going on, but rather than try to take it chronologically, maybe I could just ask if you have, um, stories or insights or things that you feel are important turning points you&#039 ; ve been involved with, either as part of your law practice, or your work on the Community Relations board, or, it&#039 ; s a very open-ended question, but. JOSEPH: I noticed. ELY: Yes. (laughs) JOSEPH: Um, well in terms of practice, it&#039 ; s been interesting because, um, I started out, my practice is focused on real estate matters, uh, on commercial real estate rather than residential, and I started out representing developers, um, doing planning and zoning work, doing contract work, doing a variety of things, which was interesting. And, about mid-practice, about, doing that after about twenty years, I started representing lenders, which was a completely different kind of practice, but also in the real estate world, um, and doing two different kinds of things, it&#039 ; s sort of like representing plaintiffs and defendants in litigation ; they&#039 ; re completely different perspectives. I, I learned a different way of trying to, to look at projects. And in the last part of my practice, starting in about 1997, I got back to my roots and have concentrated primarily on public projects, focusing on affordable housing. So that, starting in 1996 started working on Park DuValle for the housing authority, and then have worked with Liberty Green and with Sheppard Square, and now beginning to work on Russell, which are the major, uh, innovative housing programs in the community, um, and along the way because of some, uh, um, relationships that were trying to do creative programming, uh, worked on the development of Fourth Street Live and on, uh, creation of the renaissance zone, where UPS is. So, I&#039 ; ve been fortunate to work on major projects, and, uh, and the fun part of all that is that, all of those, all of those projects require, involve displacement of people. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, and-- ELY: And, just to characterize, they were, it&#039 ; s blighted public housing projects that were then revitalized through better design and involvement of the community, is-- JOSEPH: Yes. ELY: Okay. JOSEPH: Well, on the housing, on the public, they, the, the public housing programs were, that were called HOPE VI projects, which involved, which were a recognition of the fact that housing needs to be of mixed income, that if you, if you ghettoize folks, only poor folks, you have, you create a variety of problems that HUD never saw before, so that, for example, Park DuValle was supposed to be a third public housing, a third folks of income 50 percent or less of median, and a third market, and, uh, that, uh, but it involved tearing down all of the old public housing and starting anew. So, it was a very creative program that involved zoning questions. Zoning is traditionally, in Louisville at least, concentrated on, on, in a residential way, on dealing with farm property so they weren&#039 ; t, and, and being able just to start off from anew, we had to deal with very small lots to make them affordable. We had to write new zoning districts, we had to convince the people who were living there that they could be, that their needs could be accommodated. The fears of the people involved were dramatic, and when we moved into Park DuValle, there&#039 ; s a, uh, fire station there, and, that we needed to modify, and people there were convinced that the hose tower were century points where folks were putting cameras and listening devices to see what was happening. Every kind of, of, of concern you can think of was there. And so, it put me back in my roots where I was talking to the, to the local people, talking, and, and the background that I&#039 ; d had working in Mississippi and in Georgia and in some other places, really was, was much more important, uh, than whether I could draft a strong deed or a contract. Uh, and I found it just fascinating. So, my practice switched to, to where that was going. Uh, and, um, um, it&#039 ; s been interesting because it&#039 ; s all new ground. The, the new Russell program, uh, is one of the first four in the country, uh, and no one, uh, knows exactly how that&#039 ; s gonna be implemented, uh, any more than we knew how Park DuValle was gonna be implemented in 1996. So, the advantage to me is it puts me, it&#039 ; s dealing with architectural design community stuff, meeting people, uh, talking with folks, and working for a social good, and to get paid for that is pretty remarkable. ELY: Um-hm. And are you still involved with these projects in Louisville? JOSEPH: Oh, yeah. ELY: Yeah. Its sounds like-- JOSEPH: Oh, yeah. ELY: --it&#039 ; s a present passion. JOSEPH: It, it, it is, and the, the, my, the advantage is that I can, uh, don&#039 ; t have to be in the office all day, but with computers and communication can stay in touch, uh, but I&#039 ; m very much involved and very much enjoying it. ELY: Great. And, uh, you&#039 ; ve also been involved with studying and recording the history of Louisville&#039 ; s Jewish community. This is something, you&#039 ; re on the archival project that the, not the federation, the Jewish community-- JOSEPH: JCL. ELY: JCL is running, or? JOSEPH: There&#039 ; s a group of folks that are working on an archive, um, which I think will be an exciting project, because the Jewish community in Louisville, uh, has had such an impact on, on the community. From a business perspective, from a professional perspective, uh, from all kinds of perspectives, medical perspective. And, uh, this, there are things that people have in their attics and storage that they have no, no idea what to do with or how to organize, and, um, a very meaningful experience for me was to be chairman of the Kentucky Oral History Commission, uh, for several years, and work as a part of the, and I was, was on the executive committee of the Kentucky Historical Society, and see how professionals deal with things of that nature, um, uh, I, I, on a personal basis, have gotten very interested in the family history issue. Maybe I&#039 ; ve noticed and have written a book for my grandkids that&#039 ; s now about nine hundred pages, uh, and deals with all kinds of things that I had never, ever could have imagined finding. And, I&#039 ; m, I&#039 ; m hoping that--the group is excited about the archival program not only because it&#039 ; s gonna preserve some things, which is basically what archiving is, but it will cause folks to, to think about how those things were a product of their time, how they related to other, other, um, parts of the community. Um, I was involved last year when, um, the public library bought, brought the Anne Frank exhibit to Louisville, and had sort of, had worked with both JCL and the library on the institution of that program, and I was very moved several times--I&#039 ; ve been on the library board for twenty years, so I spend time at the library. And I would go down to the library and, and sit, and see people wandering through that exhibit, and, and many of those people had no idea who Anne Frank was, no idea really of what the Holocaust was about, um, and had been unable to personalize any of the results, uh, anything about that period of history. And, they were people who, by their demeanor, who by their attire, clearly were not highly educated folks that were focusing on the larger meanings of the world, but who were very interested in that and who were clearly moved by it. And, and my perspective on the archive is that, that, uh, we have the opportunity to take, uh, parts of the Jewish community and, and, and use them in ways to relate to parts of the, of town that have no relationship with the Jewish community, and make them aware of, of what the, what Jewish impact has been, Jewish community impact has been on town. Um, the, the breadth of things with which Jews have been involved, the amount of involvement in things they&#039 ; d never anticipated ; Rabbi Waller was chairman of the Louisville Board of Education, um, there are all kinds of things like that. And I think that, so that I&#039 ; m interested in the archives not only to save the stuff, um, but to create a, a, to use that as a basis for programming that has a really board community relations, uh, component to it, um, because I think it&#039 ; s much easier for people to see things and relate to them, than to read about it in a history book. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, even if you could get it in a history book. ELY: So it&#039 ; s history outreach, in a way? JOSEPH: Yeah, and community outreach. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: History outreach and community outreach, and I think it offers an opportunity for the Jewish community to get involved in ways that they haven&#039 ; t been since, uh, heritage weekends. Years ago, um, there were, you get two or three hundred volunteers to staff what was the Jewish heritage program on the Belvedere, and those programs have sort of disappeared. And I think that, that it&#039 ; s an opportunity to create within young people, that have no idea, Jewish people who have no idea what, what the, their elders have done here to learn about it, and for, for volunteers to get back involved. ELY: Um-hm. The, um, local community here seems to really take an interest in its own history, whenever it is presented, whenever it has an opportunity to do that, but you&#039 ; re right ; lately there have not been a lot of opportunities. So-- JOSEPH: Well, as you know from writing the premier book on the subject-- ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: --there&#039 ; s, there&#039 ; s a lot of stuff around, and if you, if you get people talking, they&#039 ; ll talk about it. ELY: Right. JOSEPH: But, but, but I think that the challenge is to get that in an organized manner, and to use it as a basis for programming, rather than to, to just take a snapshot. ELY: Well, what do you think is the, uh, future of this archives project? Is there an organization in town that will, that will host this? Is there a repository? JOSEPH: The archives committee has, is, is unan--has done a lot of work on that subject, has interviewed a variety of potential partners because we recognize that we don&#039 ; t have the technical expertise to deal with it, and is unanimously recognizing the Filson Society to do that. The Filson has traditionally, uh, not had a large Jewish collection, uh, but has expressed a very strong interest in changing that. And their current director, uh, was director of the library for years, and, uh, is, is committed to a, a strong outreach program, and, with the Jewish content, and has spoken at length with a number of us about the kind of outreach that I&#039 ; ve talked about. And programming is very excited about it. I&#039 ; ve talked to a number of members of the directors of the Filson and they&#039 ; re, they&#039 ; re just as excited as they can be about it. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: So, I&#039 ; m, I&#039 ; m really optimistic, because I think it takes a professional kind of competence to deal with that. They have on staff some wonderful folks, two of whom, for example, have been, uh, uh, uh, professional archivists at the American Jewish Archives in Cincinnati. So, I think that the potential for this is just overwhelming. ELY: Um-hm. And what stories would you like to see told, once there&#039 ; s the archives and there&#039 ; s a possibility of doing exhibits or educational programs or outreach? What, what do you think this community&#039 ; s story--needs to be told? JOSEPH: Well, I think that there are, there are some stories that nobody thinks about. Um, one of the things that Louisville, um, is very proud of is Crusade for Children, for example. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Crusade for Children, uh, started out, has always, the allocation has always been by the staff of the moral side of the news. The moral side of the news was originally--the three original folks were Rabbi Waller, uh, um, Monsignor Horrigan, and Duke McCall, president--Dr. McCall, president of the seminary. I think that, that, that this pro--that the Crusade is something the city is really proud of, and a Jew, a, a Rabbi was very influential in getting that whole thing started, as best I understand it. Uh, he was president of the board of education, there&#039 ; s a public school named after him, um, I don&#039 ; t, I don&#039 ; t think that the community at large recognizes the influence of the Jewish community on, on, on so many things. If you look at the, the business history of the community, um, the major stores, Bensinger&#039 ; s, uh, Kaufman-Straus, um, uh, Ben Snider, um, were Jewish stores. You look at so many different areas, um, uh, in a professional nature. Uh, some of the major medical programs in, in, in the country, come from Jews in Louisville. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: Um, Jewish Hospital for years was the premier heart transplant center and a spectacular hospital for them because Jews could not get, uh, um, uh, could not be on the service of other hospitals. ELY: Um-hm. JOSEPH: I think that in the same way that current, the current black comm--black youth don&#039 ; t recognize what their history is, I don&#039 ; t think Jews recognize what, the young Jewish community doesn&#039 ; t recognize what their history is, and I don&#039 ; t think that adults think about the impact that we&#039 ; ve had here. ELY: Yeah, I was shocked recently when people were mentioning famous Louisvillians, how Louis Brandeis just didn&#039 ; t come up in people&#039 ; s minds. They just didn&#039 ; t, didn&#039 ; t think of him. JOSEPH: Well, and, and interestingly, not only Brandeis, but for lawyers, the first major-- ELY: The--yeah. JOSEPH: The first major treatise on Kentucky law was written by Dembitz. ELY: Dembitz. Right. JOSEPH: Who is his cousin. ELY: Um-hm. And the role of the Flexnors in medicine, and, yeah, there, there are a lot of stories. JOSEPH: So, I, I think that&#039 ; s it&#039 ; s a win-win thing for all kinds of folks. ELY: Um-hm. So is there anything I haven&#039 ; t asked you that you would like to be on the record talking about? Anything in your professional life? Any thoughts about the Jewish community today? JOSEPH: I think we&#039 ; ve covered, uh, covered things pretty well. ELY: &#039 ; Kay. Well, thank you so much for this interview. JOSEPH: It&#039 ; s a pleasure. ELY: It&#039 ; s great talking to you. [End of interview.] All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh035_jk044_joseph_ohm.xml 2017oh035_jk044_joseph_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2017oh035_jk044_joseph_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Fred Joseph, February 3, 2017 Description An account of the resource Fred Joseph discusses in great detail his family history and genealogy. He talks about their immigration to America from various places in Germany. He describes their history once they arrived in America, including their many accomplishments, specifically in the field of architecture. He discusses his childhood growing up in a Baptist community in Louisville, Kentucky. He talks about his family's Jewish traditions, his parents' involvement in the Jewish community, and his experiences with anti-Semitism. He discusses his inspiration for his work in the field of civil rights, which led to his work with Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and other forms of activism. He discusses his education at Wesleyan University and University of Michigan Law School before his career with the Office of Economic Opportunity (OEO) and as civil rights counsel for the House Judiciary. He discusses the integration of Jefferson County public schools and litigating a case for the ACLU in Louisville. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2017oh035_jk044 Subject The topic of the resource Antisemitism. Anti-Semitism. Families. Genealogy Jews--Identity. Judaism. Discrimination. Louisville (Ky.) Jewish children Jewish families. Worship (Judaism) Childhood Religion Civil rights Wesleyan University Education, Higher Higher education Washington (D.C.) African American leadership University of Michigan Housing development Lawyers--Kentucky--Louisville Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/5013a6c9cb72c312b99b366666868db1.jpg 518d146635e644a80582904a3ab80cba Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Janice Crane Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed David Weinberg Interview Keyword Immigrants--Kentucky Jewish merchants--Kentucky--Louisville. United States. Air Force. Reserve Officers' Training Corps United States. Army--Reserves Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Education OHMS Object Text 5.2 2016oh423_jk042 Interview with David Weinberg, November 10, 2016 2016oh423_jk042 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Genealogy Jewish businesspeople Families. Religion University of Kentucky College students--Social conditions College students--Religious life Jews--Identity. Louisville (Ky.) Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Immigrants--Kentucky Jewish merchants--Kentucky--Louisville. United States. Air Force. Reserve Officers' Training Corps United States. Army--Reserves Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Education David Weinberg Janice Crane 1:|20(5)|44(6)|58(14)|102(14)|126(4)|166(8)|191(7)|201(3)|221(6)|247(6)|258(10)|270(10)|289(11)|310(1)|327(3)|354(7)|371(8)|383(5)|401(7)|414(7)|443(3)|461(8)|504(1)|524(4)|535(5)|546(8)|562(5)|583(5)|606(10)|614(17)|635(5)|663(3)|680(9)|693(10)|709(11)|726(7)|738(8)|750(9)|763(11)|782(1)|790(14)|807(5)|818(13)|836(1)|847(8)|864(10)|887(7)|896(1)|905(6)|921(14)|955(4)|967(10)|987(1)|998(9)|1011(7)|1021(14)|1031(11)|1044(11)|1062(4)|1073(14)|1090(2)|1103(9)|1123(3)|1141(1)|1150(12)|1163(11)|1177(4)|1198(3)|1210(10)|1228(6)|1246(16)|1256(2)|1269(4)|1301(4)|1316(3)|1327(8)|1335(10)|1345(6)|1357(3)|1369(10)|1380(2)|1390(1)|1402(14)|1414(11)|1433(13)|1443(16)|1460(16)|1475(6)|1490(9)|1503(11)|1515(9)|1526(13)|1540(6)|1559(10)|1572(9)|1585(14)|1598(13)|1610(3)|1620(9)|1635(7)|1647(1)|1668(12)|1687(9)|1707(1)|1721(9)|1731(3)|1743(7)|1757(9)|1768(7)|1784(3)|1796(3)|1814(6) 0 Vimeo video &lt ; iframe allowFullScreen frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; height=&quot ; 564&quot ; mozallowfullscreen src=&quot ; https://player.vimeo.com/video/253333413&quot ; webkitAllowFullScreen width=&quot ; 640&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 2 Introduction For official purposes, today is November 10th, 2016 and my name is Janice Crane... Interviewer Janice Crane begins by explaining her friendship with and connections to interviewee David Weinberg. She then prompts him to give basic information concerning his name and birthplace. Birthplace ; Given names ; Norman David Weinberg Louisville (Ky.) 17 84 Family background I know that both of your parents have passed away, but for the record and because they are part of your story, what were their names, and about when and where were they born? Weinberg delves into his family's past. He begins discussing his parents' birthplaces and birth years, and then goes back to detail both sets of grandparents' origins, name changes in America, and how they came to settle in Kentucky. Weinberg also talks about his sister, Gail ; wife, Beverly ; two children, Scott and Lindsey ; and his five grandchildren. 1907 ; 1915 ; 1940 ; Abe Weinberg ; Anne Miriam Weinberg ; Bessie Price ; Beverly Eileen Bass Weinberg ; Children ; Eloise Lily Weinberg ; Esther Libby Berman ; Ethan Benjamin Rossen ; Fathers ; Grandchildren ; Grandparents ; Issac Blizniak ; Jane Beatrice Weinberg ; Kirsch ; Lindsey Paige Weinberg Rossen ; Mothers ; Name changes ; Phillip R. Levy ; Rita Gail Weinberg Levy ; Russia ; Saul Weinberg ; Scott Allen Weinberg ; Sisters ; Sophie Gabrielle Rossen ; Warsaw (Poland) ; Weston (Conn.) ; Wives Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants--Kentucky ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 508 Father's butcher shop and Preston Street during the late 1940s and early 1950s What were their occupations of your parents? Weinberg talks about his father's kosher meat market in the shtetl on Preston Street, as well as some of the other Jewish-owned stores in the area. He recounts details about going to get freshly slaughtered chickens for the shop. Weinberg also mentions his father's death and selling of the butcher store. Butcher shops ; Clare Meat Products ; Golde's ; Goldy's ; Jewish businesses ; Kosher ; Pozitzer's ; Preston Street ; Schlossberg's ; Shochet ; Shoe shops ; Shtetl ; Slaughtering ; Strasberg ; Wittenbaum Shoes Families. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jewish merchants--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 910 Keeping kosher Um, did your family keep kosher? In this segment, Weinberg talks about his family's kosher traditions and how he continued those after his parents' passings while he lived with his aunt and uncle. He also talks about going out to Kosher restaurants and explains what the Vaad Hakashruth was. Aunts ; Cincinnati (Ohio) ; Grandparents ; Kosher restaurants ; Kroger ; Orthodox ; Parents ; Parents' passings ; Uncles ; Vaad Hakashruth Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 39.1, -84.516667 17 Cincinnati (Ohio) 1173 Louisville Jewish community in the 1950s and 1960s Um, when you were growing up, where did you go to school? Weinberg talks about his public elementary through high school education, as well as the large Jewish population he was surrounded by during those years of his life. He mentions that there was a small Black population when he attended Seneca High, but that they got along well and he never had any issues with anti-Semitism. Weinberg also talks about his family and the neighborhood he grew up in, detailing certain holiday celebrations, such as Shabbat. Anti-Semitism ; Atherton High School ; Belknap Elementary School ; Henry Clay Hotel ; Highland Junior High School ; Jewish neighborhoods ; Keneseth Israel ; Meadowview Estates ; Orthodox ; Race relations ; Sam Meyers ; Seneca High School ; Shabbat ; Wagner High School African Americans--Relations with Jews. ; Education ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Race relations--United States 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 1718 Keneseth Israel Um--(Weinberg coughs)--you said that you went to Keneseth--is it Keneseth Israel? Weinberg talks about growing up in the Orthodox congregation, Keneseth Israel, the synagogue of which he is still a member. He discusses its shift toward Conservative Judaism and recalls a specific incident where women who wanted to have mixed-gender seating were escorted out of the synagogue by police. Congregations ; Conservative ; Dues-paying ; Gabbai ; Kosher ; Mergers ; Orthodox ; Synagogues Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 1953 Family ties to Keneseth Israel What was your family’s connection to the synagogue? Weinberg discusses his family's association with his lifelong synagogue, Keneseth Israel. He specifically details his grandfather's role as gabbai, one who maintains order, and his father's connections as the local kosher butcher. He then talks about his aunt and uncle's laid back involvement, and his maintenance of &quot ; modified kosher.&quot ; Dues-paying ; Gabbai ; Honorarium ; Keneseth Israel ; Kosher ; Orthodox ; Religious practices ; Shofar Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 2160 Hebrew school in the 1950s Um, what were your experience with religious school and Hebrew school? Weinberg discusses attending Hebrew school at the Jewish Community Center. He mentions that, at the time, Conservative and Orthodox Jewish children attended to learn Hebrew and then take bar mitzvah lessons when they turned 12. He talks about his experiences in those lessons, specifically having to record and study them. Bar mitzvahs ; Conservative ; Hebrew schools ; Jewish Community Center ; Jewish religious education ; Orthodox ; Reform Education ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 2377 Experience with Jewish clubs in the Louisville community Share any stories that stand out in your memory during the years that you were growing up Jewish in Louisville. Weinberg discusses his involvement in Jewish youth clubs growing up, including national affiliations and sports competitions. He talks about his role as president of the Club Council and friendly competition with former Louisville Mayor and Kentucky Lieutenant Governor Jerry Abramson, who served as president of the Teenage Board. Club Council Board ; Jerry Abramson ; Jewish clubs ; Teenage Board Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.conservativejudaism.org/articlenav.php?id=21 Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs 2654 Exploring the Weinberg family tree In doing some research, I noticed that there have been and still are a lot of Weinbergs in Louisville. So how were you or are you related to other Jewish families in Louisville? Or in Kentucky, for that matter? Weinberg reveals that he is not, in fact, related to many Weinbergs in the Louisville area. He explores both maternal and paternal sides of his family, eventually tracing his mother's side, the Bermans, back to the 1700s. 1786 ; Ancestors ; Ancestry ; Faye Weinberg ; Great-great-great-grandfathers ; Harris Weinberg ; Harry Berman ; Mendel Weinberg ; Morris Weinberg ; Perry Weinberg ; Yittzhak Leib Berman Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants--Kentucky ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 2826 Practicing Judaism What did your family teach you about Judaism, and how has what you learned from them impacted your life? Weinberg identifies himself and his children as traditional Conservative Jews. He discusses his current involvement with his synagogue, Keneseth Israel, as well as his children's Jewish practices. Children ; Connecticut ; Conservative ; Keneseth Israel ; Minyan ; Presidents ; Treasurers Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 3167 Time at the University of Kentucky I know that you attended the University of Kentucky. What years were you there and why did you choose UK? Weinberg talks about his days at the University of Kentucky. He goes into detail about tuition rates, his studies in the business school, his roommate experiences, participation in the Air Force ROTC, apartment living, and parties. Air Force ROTC ; Apartments ; College of Business and Economics ; Deferments ; Fulton County (Ky.) ; Haggin Hall ; In-state tuition ; Lowry Lane ; Lyndhurst Place ; Parties ; Pinewood Place College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Social conditions ; United States. Air Force. Reserve Officers' Training Corps ; Universities and colleges. ; University of Kentucky 38.033333, -84.5 17 University of Kentucky 3783 Jewish campus involvement Describe your relationship with any Jewish or non-Jewish organizations on UK’s campus at the time. Weinberg discusses his interactions with Jewish organizations at the University of Kentucky. He talks about pledging Zeta Beta Tau, the Jewish fraternity on campus, but he didn't pursue that. He talks about living a Jewish life at UK and his choice to get more involved in Hillel. Anti-Semitism ; Fraternities ; Hillel ; Jewish Fraternity ; Kosher ; Pledge ; Yizkor ; Zeta Beta Tau (ZBT) College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Greek letter societies. ; Jews--Identity. ; Universities and colleges. ; University of Kentucky 38.033333, -84.5 17 University of Kentucky http://www.hillel.org Hillel International - The Foundation for Jewish Campus Life at Colleges and Universities 4187 Connecting with Jews outside of ZBT and Hillel Describe the--you, you touched on this a little bit, but the climate on campus for Jews becoming members of non-Jewish fraternities, um, that--did everyone, uh, were there more of you and less of the ZBTs? Weinberg talks about his relationships with Jews not involved in the ZBT fraternity and Hillel organization. He notes that several of them lived in neighboring apartments, allowing them to have their own get-togethers with no restrictions. Weinberg goes on to list names of his Jewish friends, as well as their hometowns and/or states. He also discusses some of his efforts to preserve his Judaism while on his own. Arty Salomon ; Ben Bayer ; Bruce Gimmer ; Fraternities ; Friends ; George Schwartzman ; Hettie Miller-Reuben ; Howard Passamaneck ; Howard Rosenberg ; Jay Levine ; Jaye Hinerfeld Bittner ; Jill Essie ; Judy Witzer ; Louis Reuben ; Max Goldsmith ; Melvin Orlansky ; Mickey Franklin ; Mickey Lorch ; Mike Needleman ; Mississippi ; Simone Bloomfield ; Teddy Gordon ; Zeta Beta Tau (ZBT) College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Greek letter societies. ; Jews--Identity. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion ; Universities and colleges. ; University of Kentucky 38.033333, -84.5 17 University of Kentucky 4498 Post-graduation from U.K. What did you do after you graduated? Weinberg talks about his brief time in the Army Reserves during the summer following his graduation from the University of Kentucky. He also discusses his job as a financial manager for General Electric and his time spent as the owner of a pizza and sub shop in the Oxmoor Mall in Louisville, Kentucky. All American Hero ; Army Reserves ; Basic training ; General Electric (GE) ; Jerry Abramson ; Manager of accounting ; Oxmoor Mall ; Wife Employment--Kentucky ; Jewish businesspeople ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership ; United States. Army--Reserves 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 4691 Becoming CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville (JCFL) Uh, during the time that I was, um--while I had the shop, uh, I also had become the chief--CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville. Weinberg talks about taking on the role of CFO of the &quot ; Metro United Way of the Jewish community,&quot ; the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville. He discusses his responsibilities as CFO, as well as the joy and rewarding feeling he found in giving back to the Jewish community in this way. Weinberg also mentions different organizations that received funding from the JCFL while he was CFO, such as the Jewish Community Center and Council of Jewish Women. Adolph Rupp ; Campaigns ; Chief financial officer (CFO) ; Council of Jewish Women ; Donors ; Hebrew schools ; Jewish Community Center ; Jewish Community Federation of Louisville ; Jewish Family and Vocational Service ; John Calipari ; Nonprofit organizations ; University of Kentucky Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) https://jewishlouisville.org/federation/ Jewish Community Federation of Louisville 5071 Louisville Jewish communal institutions Um, clearly you’ve worked with, um, lots of the Jewish community for many years, I guess in your divvying out the money. Um, what relationship did, um--if any--did the Federation have with the Jewish Hospital? Weinberg talks about the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville's close ties with Jewish Hospital, as well as the ways in which the hospital cared for the JCFL's and other Jewish community agencies' employees. He also talks about the dwindling association of Louisville's Jews with area synagogues. He blames Jefferson County Public School System's busing plans for decreases in youth involvement in local Jewish organizations and general volunteerism decline in the &quot ; Me-generation.&quot ; &quot ; Me generation&quot ; ; Children ; Insurance ; Jefferson County Public Schools ; Jewish Community Center ; Jewish Community Federation of Louisville ; Jewish hospitals ; Neighborhoods ; Parents ; Synagogues Education ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.kentuckyonehealth.org/jewish-hospital 5565 Highlights of working at the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville What are your most memorable, um, thoughts about your work at the Federation? Weinberg discusses his more recent years with the JCFL, specifically being in office during the 2008 merger of the JCFL with the Jewish Community Center to form the Jewish Community of Louisville. Allocations ; Chief financial officer (CFO) ; Differing views ; Finances ; Hebrew school ; Jewish Community Center ; Jewish Community Federation of Louisville ; Jewish Community of Louisville ; Mergers ; Synagogues ; Vice presidents Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) https://jewishlouisville.org/federation/ Jewish Community Federation of Louisville 5988 Jewish leadership in Louisville You’ve mentioned Jerry Abramson, um, several times, um, as your friend, but, um, as a mayor, what do you--how do you feel that his being Jewish and being the mayor of Louisville has, um--if at any, what has it been--what impact has it had on the Jewish community or Louisville at large? Weinberg talks about how despite lower numbers of active Jews in Louisville in recent years, the Jewish leadership is still very strong. He lists Louisville's &quot ; Mayor for Life&quot ; Jerry Abramson ; House Representative John Yarmouth ; and the Jewish Hospital as major examples of Jewish leadership in Louisville. Weinberg also discusses the history of the Jewish Community Center and its roots in the Young Men's Hebrew Association. Dutchmans Lane ; Jerry Abramson ; Jewish Hospital ; Jewish leadership ; John Yarmouth ; Young Men's Hebrew Association (YMHA) Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://mayorforlife.tripod.com/biography.html Jerry Abramson: Biography 6165 Judaism as a child versus as a parent David, what, what was Judaism like--um, we’ve talked about you growing up and your work and what about, um, Judaism in your home as a parent? Um, how was it--how did--did it differ from you growing up? Weinberg talks about raising his children in a strong Jewish faith and his current practices with his children and grandchildren. He compares his Jewish experiences, specifically his bar mitzvah, to his children's, wishing they would've had ones similar to his. Anti-Semitism ; Bar mitzvahs ; Conservative ; Fathers ; Grandparents ; Jewish clubs ; Judaism ; Kentucky Hotel ; Kiddush ; Motzi ; Orthodox ; Presidents ; Sam Meyers ; Shabbat Childhood ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 6592 Jewish identity What has been the role of Israel and Zionism in your activities and as your identity as a Jew? Weinberg reflects on his ties to Israel and his respect for those more Orthodox than he, though he expresses he wouldn't change much about the way he practices his faith. Federation ; Homeland ; Israel ; Judaism ; March of the Living ; Orthodox ; Zionism Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 17 http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/a-definition-of-zionism A Definition of Zionism interview In this interview, David Weinberg reflects on his involvement in Judaism and the Jewish community throughout his childhood, college years, and adult life. He begins by delving into his family’s background, explaining how his grandparents came to Kentucky and settled in Louisville, where he still lives today. He talks about his father’s role in the community as a kosher butcher, how that carried over into the home, and about his family’s involvement in their synagogue, Keneseth Israel. David discusses his participation at the Jewish Community Center growing up, from attending Hebrew school there to leading youth clubs and youth councils. As the narrative continues, Weinberg recalls times spent at the University of Kentucky, where he was a business student from 1964 to 1968. He talks about his efforts to keep kosher while living on his own ; his involvement with Hillel, a Jewish campus organization ; and his connections to other Jews living nearby during the time he was at U.K. Weinberg goes on to explain how he met his wife Beverly, his career with General Electric, and how he came to be the CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville (now the Jewish Community of Louisville). As the interview closes, interviewer Janice Crane asks Weinberg to consider his Jewish identity and its impact on his children’s and grandchildren’s faiths. CREW: Action. CRANE: For official purposes, today is November 10th, 2016, and my name is Janice Crane, and I&#039 ; m part of the interviewing team for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, funded by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. I&#039 ; m honored and delighted to be here today with David Weinberg of Louisville, Kentucky. I met David many years ago when he attended the University of Kentucky, and I consider him my friend. Although we have not stayed in close contact, we&#039 ; ve managed to--to stay somewhat connected over the years with the help of a few family members and some mutual friends. I look forward to hearing David&#039 ; s stories from his time at UK [University of Kentucky], his memories and experiences growing up in--Jewish, in Louisville, and his work and his family life, raising children in the same town where he grew up. So let&#039 ; s begin with some general information. What was your full name at birth, since it wasn&#039 ; t David? WEINBERG: Uh, see, I surprised you, didn&#039 ; t I? CRANE: That&#039 ; s right. WEINBERG: It&#039 ; s Norman David Weinberg. CRANE: Okay. For the rest of this--(Weinberg laughs)--um, interview, I&#039 ; m gonna have to still call you David, &#039 ; cause that&#039 ; s what I know you as. WEINBERG: My friends call me David. (Crane laughs) When I hear &quot ; Norman,&quot ; I know it&#039 ; s a legal issue. (both laugh) CRANE: A-ha. Okay. When and where were you born? WEINBERG: Uh, I was born in Louisville, Kentucky, March 16th, 1946, at Jewish Hospital. CRANE: I know that both of your parents have passed away, but for the record and because they are part of your story, what were their names, and about when and where were they born? WEINBERG: Uh, Saul Weinberg, and, uh, he, uh, was born in Warsaw, Poland. Uh, he was born in 1907. Uh, and my mother, uh, was born in Kentucky. Esther Libby Berman. And she, uh, was born in 1915. CRANE: And was she born in Louisville? WEINBERG: In Louisville. CRANE: Okay. And what about your grandparents? Where were they born? WEINBERG: Uh, my grandfather, uh--well, my grandfather and my grandmother, uh, on the Weinberg side were born in Warsaw, uh, Poland. Uh, and my grandfather--I&#039 ; m not sure where my grandmother Berman was born, but my grandfather Berman was born, uh, in Russia. And I&#039 ; m not exactly sure where. Somewhere in the Lithuania type area. CRANE: Uh, did your parents and your grandparents names change when they came to America? WEINBERG: Uh, it did. Uh, my, uh--the Weinberg side was, uh--last name was Blizniak. Uh, and my grandfather actually--or my dad tra--traveled to this country as Isaac Blizniak. Uh, but their na--and, and my grandfather on the Berman side, uh, was Kirsch. Uh, I&#039 ; m not sure how we get from Blizniak to Weinberg or Berman to Kirsch, but, but we did. Uh, and my grandmother, Bessie, uh, Price, uh, hers was something like &quot ; Paraplydgik&quot ; or &quot ; Paraplodgik&quot ; or somethin&#039 ; like that. CRANE: Okay. Do you want to spell--(Weinberg laughs)--any of those? (laughs) WEINBERG: I will get to--if you need me to spell it, I will get it-- CRANE: --yes-- WEINBERG: --for you-- CRANE: --spell the-- WEINBERG: --at some point. CRANE: --Blizniak first. WEINBERG: B-l-i-z-n-i-a-k. Blizniak. CRANE: Okay. And what was the-- WEINBERG: Kirsch? CRANE: Uh-hm. WEINBERG: Uh, was my grandfather-- CRANE: --and that&#039 ; s-- WEINBERG: --and my grandmother&#039 ; s maiden name was Karpik. CRANE: And can you spell that? WEINBERG: K-a-r-p-i-k. CRANE: And how do you spell Kirsch? WEINBERG: K-i-r-s-c-h. CRANE: Okay. Um, I know you are married, so for the record, um, what is your wife&#039 ; s full name, and where is she from? WEINBERG: Uh, she&#039 ; s from Louisville also. Her name is Beverly Eileen Bass Weinberg, and she&#039 ; ll be mad that I used the Eileen. (both laugh) CRANE: And, um, what is your sister&#039 ; s full name, and what is her age relative to yours? WEINBERG: Uh, she-- CRANE: --and I know her name&#039 ; s not the name I think of it either--(both laugh) WEINBERG: Uh, again, she goes by her middle name, Gail. Uh, her, uh, birth name is, uh, Rita Gail, um, Weinberg, Levy. She&#039 ; s now a Levy, married to Phillip R. Levy. Uh, and this is my older sister, but she&#039 ; ll be glad to hear on tape also, uh, she was born in, uh, 1940, December of &#039 ; 40, so she&#039 ; s a little over five years older than I am. CRANE: Okay. And she also lives in Louisville. WEINBERG: She also lives in Louisville. CRANE: I know that you have two children, so what are their names, and the ages of your children? WEINBERG: Scott Allen Weinberg, and he does go by Scott, his first name. Uh, he is now forty-one. Uh, and my daughter&#039 ; s name is, uh, Lindsey Paige Weinberg Rossen, uh, and she&#039 ; s thirty-six. CRANE: And will you spell her last name? WEINBERG: R-o-s-s-e-n. CRANE: Okay. And how &#039 ; bout-- WEINBERG: --she--she-- CRANE: --your grandchildren? WEINBERG: --she lives in, uh, Connecticut-- CRANE: --okay-- WEINBERG: --Weston, Connecticut. CRANE: And your five grandchildren, what are their names--(Weinberg laughs)--and ages? WEINBERG: Uh, my five grandchildren are Mary Anne--(pause) (laughs)--we always call her, uh, um--can we go back a minute, or not? (laughs) We call her Anne Miriam. CRANE: Okay. WEINBERG: Uh, we call her Amma, uh, a lot. So-- CRANE: --Emma?-- WEINBERG: --Amma. A-m-m-a, instead of Anne Miriam. So that&#039 ; s why it confuses me a little bit. I don&#039 ; t usually call everybody by their legal-- CRANE: --real names-- WEINBERG: --names. CRANE: Okay. WEINBERG: Uh, Anne Miriam. She is eight, soon to be nine. Uh, Eloise Lily Weinberg, uh-- CRANE: --that&#039 ; s pretty-- WEINBERG: --she is, uh, six, and, uh, the youngest one of the Weinberg side of Scott&#039 ; s family, uh, is Beat--is Jane Beatrice, uh, Weinberg, and she is four. CRANE: And you-- WEINBERG: --five-- (laughs) CRANE: --and on-- WEINBERG: --four. Four-- CRANE: --Lindsey&#039 ; s side? WEINBERG: Uh, on Lindsey&#039 ; s side, uh, is Sophie Gabrielle Rossen. Uh, she&#039 ; s seven. And then we got the only boy, and the last of the--uh, only boy of the family. And he&#039 ; s the youngest. And that&#039 ; s Ethan Benjamin Rossen. CRANE: Oh, cute. How did your family come to settle in Kentucky, or more specifically Louisville, Kentucky? WEINBERG: Well, my, uh--my grandfather&#039 ; s brother--one of his brothers, Abe, was the oldest one--uh, Abe came, um, before anybody else out of Warsaw. Uh, he was up in Indiana for a while, uh, and then came to Louisville. And he was in essence the sponsor of my dad, uh, coming over--or my grandfather coming over, and then my dad. My grandfather came without the family, initially. Uh, he came, uh, in 19, uh, 21, and left everybody else in Warsaw. (laughs) Uh, my father, who was the oldest of the children, came two years later, uh, in 19, uh, 20, uh, 3, and the rest of the family didn&#039 ; t come until the next year, 1924. And that was four additional, uh, siblings and my grandmother. CRANE: Why did they come here? WEINBERG: Why did they come to the United States or why did they come to Louisville? CRANE: No, why did they come to Kentucky? Or Louisville? WEINBERG: Well, again, my, uh, my grandfather&#039 ; d come first because he was sponsored by his older brother who came here and, uh, found him a, a place to work. And then, uh, then the rest followed. CRANE: And do you know-- WEINBERG: --my dad came by himself from Warsaw at age sixteen-- CRANE: Oh. What were their occupations of your parents? WEINBERG: Uh, my parents--my dad was a, a, uh, kosher butcher, uh, in town. And my mother was a, uh, um, a housewife who helped in the store quite a bit. Um, but, uh, before he started--before he opened his kosher butcher, he actually worked for Clare Meat, uh, Products, which was not a kosher shop. Uh, but it was with Clare, and then he, uh, opened his own. Uh, and he opened it with, uh, as a partnership with my uncle by marriage, uh, my mother&#039 ; s sister&#039 ; s husband, Abe Hoffman. Uh, they opened as partners. And that didn&#039 ; t last too long, for whatever reason. Uh, probably because it&#039 ; s not a good idea to go into business with friends or relatives. But, uh, he then opened his own kosher meat market, uh, much further east, where the Jewish population was moving. My dad&#039 ; s meat market was right in the middle of what I would call the shtetl, on Preston Street, uh, because just about every store along Preston, uh, was a, was a Jewish market of some sort or another. CRANE: Do you remember Preston Street when your dad had a butcher-- WEINBERG: --uh, I do-- CRANE: --shop? WEINBERG: I do. CRANE: What was it like? WEINBERG: What was the butcher shop like, or what was Preston like? CRANE: Both. WEINBERG: Uh, well, the-- CRANE: --what do you remember about it?-- WEINBERG: (laughs) Uh, don&#039 ; t forget, my--my dad died when I was thirteen. Uh, so I, uh, I only have some memories between probably five and thirteen. Uh, but it--it was, uh, pe--a lot of people talking Yiddish or Hebrew down the street. Uh, the butcher shop itself, uh, my dad would go in, a lot of times at four o&#039 ; clock in the morning, uh, get orders together that--for delivery that day, uh, and then come home for breakfast and have breakfast with us and then go back to the shop. Um, but--I mean, there was every merchant along Preston, uh, there were delis, there were, uh, shoe shops, there were five-and-ten stores, there were, uh, the shochet, who actually kosher slaughtered the chickens on Preston for you while you were in the shop. Um, it was, uh--it was all right there. Bakeries. Um, Melita&#039 ; s Bakery. Um, New York--uh, the New York Delicatessen, which was owned by Sh-- uh, Mike Sherman. Uh, there were actually a couple of other butcher shops around that time. Schramm&#039 ; s (??). Uh, Fuchs&#039 ; s (??) had maybe had just closed. Um, and there were a few--uh, there were a few others, uh, you know, Wittenbaum&#039 ; s, uh, was right along there. Golde&#039 ; s Shoes. Um-- CRANE: I know that I grew up knowing that all the shoe str--shoe shops in Louisville were on Preston Street for some reason. WEINBERG: They--(Crane laughs)--they were on Preston Street. I--I probably got another listing here of a number of &#039 ; em, uh, that were on, uh--yeah. Wittenbaum Shoes. Schlossberg&#039 ; s. Uh, Golde&#039 ; s. Strasberg&#039 ; s. Goldy&#039 ; s. Pozitzer&#039 ; s. All Jewish-owned shoe stores along Preston Street. UNKNOWN: What section of Preston Street was that? WEINBERG: Uh, generally between, uh, Market or Jefferson and Broadway. Maybe a block before Broadway, uh, north of Broadway. CRANE: Did you ever witness the slaughtering of one of those chickens? WEINBERG: I did. (laughs) CRANE: Will you just sort of share your feeling--(Weinberg laughs)--about it, or--(laughs)--what you remember? WEINBERG: I&#039 ; ll tell you some--I, I, I never saw the slaughter of a, of a cow, which is also ritually slaughtered for Jewish, uh, kosher butchers. Uh, but my--I can remember going down to the stock yards with my dad, where he would pick out the cow that was gonna be slaughtered, and it would be taken over to, uh, um--gosh, what was the name of that? Um, Dawson-Spatz, uh, slaughterhouse, which was just down the street, and then they would ritually slaughter that cow for, uh, kosher, uh, butcher. Uh, the chickens, I can remember going down--it was a little shop. It was--I thought it was pretty dirty-lookin&#039 ; . Uh, and it was a little scary at the time. They would just--you know, just cut that head off, and, uh, then there was your chicken. (laughs) CRANE: Where did the meat--um, you mentioned that the meat came from, um, that slaughterhouse or, you know, that--where you picked out the cows. Um, where did the chickens come from? WEINBERG: I only knew that they were on Preston Street. I mean, they were live on Preston Street in the back of that, uh, sh--uh--you know, the shochet&#039 ; s, um, house. CRANE: You mean the chickens were. WEINBERG: The chickens were, yeah. CRANE: Whoa. Okay. WEINBERG: Yeah, you could go in and pick out your chicken, they&#039 ; d slaughter it right there for you. Take home your chicken, fresh. (laughs) CRANE: Did they pluck the little feathers out, or-- WEINBERG: Uh, they could, or you could do it yourself. (laughs) CRANE: Uh, what happened to the business after your father passed away? WEINBERG: Uh, when my father passed away, uh, there was somebody in there named Sam, uh, Shiffman (??), uh, who, I guess, bought it. Uh, he opened it for--kept it open for a while, and then that shop moved, uh, actually out on to the Bardstown Road area, which, again, was shifting towards where the Jewish community was moving. Uh, Hy Spickel (??) had a place out there, uh, with Shiffman, for a while. Um, Abe Hoffman, who had been my, uh, my uncle, my dad&#039 ; s brother-in-law, had a--that place called Abe--Abe&#039 ; s Meat--Abe&#039 ; s Kosher Meats. Uh, so those were all along Bardstown Road--Taylorsville Road, at that time. CRANE: Is that where Butchertown is? WEINBERG: No. (laughs) CRANE: It doesn&#039 ; t have anything to do-- WEINBERG: --no-- CRANE: --with Butcher-- WEINBERG: --not even close-- CRANE: Okay. (Weinberg laughs) Um, did your family keep kosher? WEINBERG: Yes. Uh, my grandparents kept kosher. My, uh, my mom and dad kept kosher. Uh, I mean, we kept kosher in the home. Kept kosher outside the home, while my parents were alive. When my parents passed away, uh, we moved in with, uh, an aunt, my dad&#039 ; s sister, and her husband. Uh, Jack Goldberg and Miriam Goldberg. Uh, they weren&#039 ; t quite as religious. Uh, they did keep a kosher home, but not outside the home so much. Um, but yeah. We kept, we kept kosher. CRANE: How old was--how old were you when your mother passed away? WEINBERG: Ten. CRANE: Oh, wow. So she passed away before your dad. WEINBERG: She had passed away three years before my dad. CRANE: That must&#039 ; ve been tough. Um, how easy is it to keep kosher in Louisville, now? WEINBERG: Today or then? (laughs) CRANE: Either one. WEINBERG: It&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s not as easy as it was, uh, when you had several kosher butcher shops, and you had sever--you know, a few restaurants that were kosher restaurants. You don&#039 ; t have any kosher restaurants today. Uh, you can buy kosher meat at Kroger&#039 ; s if you go to the Kroger on Hikes Lane. They have a fresh kosher meat section. Uh, so if you want to buy kosher meat, you can. Uh, the selection is not great, and they don&#039 ; t necessarily cut it, uh, to your specifications. If you want to, uh--you know, a lot of times we will bring meat in from Chicago. I have a niece up there. Uh, so if we&#039 ; re visiting there or she&#039 ; s coming here, she&#039 ; ll bring us meat occasionally. Uh, Cincinnati has kosher meat market that we can get kosher meat from. You can get it from St. Louis, you can get it from, uh, Atlanta. But, uh-- CRANE: You said there were kosher restaurants when you were growin&#039 ; up? WEINBERG: Uh, there were. Uh, and if they weren&#039 ; t kosher, they were kosher-style. But, uh, uh, there were a couple of kosher restaurants. Um--(sighs)--trying to think of the name of those, uh--(pause) (sighs)--Charlie Simon, I think, kept a, uh, kosher, uh, delicatessen. Um, there was, uh, Sherman&#039 ; s, which was kosher-style. Had kosher meat, they didn&#039 ; t keep a kosher, uh, restaurant particularly. Around the Clock, uh, was on Bardstown Road, uh, and would keep kosher-style, uh, with some kosher meat, but not totally a kosher restaurant. Um, guy named Kaplan owned that, uh, um, Around the Clock. Um-- CRANE: You know, David, when I was doing some of the research for this interview, I kept coming across the phrase &quot ; Vaad Hakashruth&quot ; ? WEINBERG: Corre--all right. CRANE: Um, and I know it has something to do with keeping kosher in Louisville. Um, but what can you tell me about this? (both laugh) WEINBERG: Well, the Vaad is, uh, one that supervises and would give a--a Orthodox union approval of, of the kosher meat. Uh, to do that they would come in periodically just to make sure that you were keeping all the laws of kashrut. Uh, and they would give it their approval, and they&#039 ; d get paid for that. (laughs) Uh, so, uh, in every, every piece of meat you bought, uh, you were paying the co--uh, the Vaad as well. CRANE: So is this a--a person, a project, a program? It-- WEINBERG: Uh, it&#039 ; s a person. It&#039 ; s a group. Uh, the Vaad has got a--its own board here, today, uh, that will approve or not approve of various products in town. Uh, it&#039 ; s, uh, com--composed of those of the Orthodox--and some Conservative, I think, are on there as well. CRANE: Hmm. Uh, when you were growin&#039 ; up, where did you go to school? WEINBERG: Well, I went to Belknap Elementary. Uh, you know, our neighborhoods back then were much different than they are today. We were--when we went to school, we went to school in public schools with our, uh, friends and neighbors, and we, a lot of the Jewish community lived together in the same neighborhoods. I lived on Village Drive. Uh, Village Drive was like a little ghetto, you know. Uh, it had one Jewish home, if no--if, if it wasn&#039 ; t Jewish, it was Catholic, but, um, uh, it was a very Jewish neighborhood. So we went to Belknap, uh, Elementary. Then I went to Seneca High. Uh, actually, I went to Highland Junior High for a year in, before my dad died, and then, uh--then I went to Seneca High. CRANE: I&#039 ; m assuming that, that once your parents passed away you moved to a different location? WEINBERG: Moved to a different location, in Meadowview Estates with my, uh, Aunt Miriam Weinberg Goldberg, Jack Goldberg. CRANE: Um-- WEINBERG: --and they had, they had one adopted daughter, Renee-- CRANE: --um, is she still, um, around? WEINBERG: Renee? CRANE: Um-hm. WEINBERG: Renee is around, and she lives in, uh, Florida. CRANE: &#039 ; Cause she, I guess, sort of became your sister, of sorts. WEINBERG: Uh, yeah. Very much so. CRANE: Um, you said you lived in a Jewish community, but what was the non-Jewish community&#039 ; s reaction to you being Jewish? Or your Jewishness? When you were growing up? WEINBERG: Uh, again, the neighborhood and the schools were very Jewish. Uh, Seneca was very Jewish. Um, Seneca had a big Jewish population. They had a little black population, &#039 ; cause they drew from Newburg. The Jews and the blacks got along very well. Uh, we never had a problem. I--I cannot think of any time when I was growing up that I ran into any anti-Semitism. CRANE: When you say &quot ; very Jewish,&quot ; what do you mean? WEINBERG: I&#039 ; d say, uh, close to a third of the school was Jewish. CRANE: Oh, wow. WEINBERG: Um, you know, we--you were in, uh--you either went to Atherton, which was very Jewish and was in the Highlands, or you went to Seneca. And you might have gone, a few, to Wagner. But you were in basically those three schools. CRANE: How would you describe your parents&#039 ; relationship to Judaism? WEINBERG: Their relationship to Judaism? CRANE: Um-hm. WEINBERG: Very Jewish. Um, again, the--the house was kosher-- [Pause in recording.] WEINBERG: --uh, on Shabbat. Uh-- CRANE: Okay. [Pause in recording.] CRANE: Well, we had a teeny little break here, but, um, let&#039 ; s go back to the question, how would you describe your parents&#039 ; relationship to Judaism? WEINBERG: Uh, well, it--they were Orthodox. Uh, my grandparents were Orthodox ; my fam--my parents were Orthodox. Um, we didn&#039 ; t go out to eat until it was kosher or unless it was, uh, milchig. Uh, we went to Stan&#039 ; s Fish Market, who would, uh, prepare fish, uh, uh, that&#039 ; s probably the only fish place we went, Stan&#039 ; s Fish Market. Uh, we would go to Around the Clock on Bardstown Road. And my dad knew Mr. Kaplan, and he would make sure that whatever was served was okay. (laughs) Uh, we went there for milkshakes a lot, and that was okay. Although my dad --I didn&#039 ; t eat a lot of eggs or protein, so he would have &#039 ; em put a raw egg in my milkshake so that I would get this protein from the, from the egg. (laughs) CRANE: Did you know it was in there? WEINBERG: Yeah, I knew. But it, the milkshake was okay. (laughs) CRANE: Enough chocolate changes anything. WEINBERG: That&#039 ; s right. CRANE: Um, so what about the, um, holidays? What was Shabbat like? What were--how did you celebrate holidays? WEINBERG: Well, on Shabbat--again, we were in--by the time I was three years old, we were in the East End, on Village Drive. Uh, so we didn&#039 ; t go to Keneseth downtown unless it was a special day, a special holiday. On Shabbat, uh, Four Courts was close by. It was the, uh, home they built for Jewish elderly. And they had a chapel there. And they would go, uh--a number of the Jewish community in that area would go there and be lay-led, basically. But they were all--they were all--knew what they were doing. (laughs) They could all daven. They could all lain Torah. Uh, so that wasn&#039 ; t an issue. Um, and that&#039 ; s where we would walk to. And we had a little dog that would follow us over there. And she would stay at that door for the four hours. I mean, services started at eight o&#039 ; clock in the morning ; they didn&#039 ; t end till twelve o&#039 ; clock. And that dog would sit at--(laughs)--that doorstep until we came out. Um--(clears throat)--and so that&#039 ; s what we did on Shabbat. And then we went home, and he--we didn&#039 ; t watch, uh, television. I might have gone out--(Crane sneezes)--and played, uh, but we didn&#039 ; t do, uh--you know, we didn&#039 ; t watch television or work. Uh, on special occasions, and especially the holidays--(clears throat)--were very special. Uh, we would go to my da--my grandparents lived a block away from the synagogue, and the whole family would just land there. Uh, and when I say the whole family, there were five siblings and all their children. Uh, there were, uh, ten, ten grandchildren of his. So everybody was there in this little--what I thought at the time was a big house, but I went back to see it not too terribly long ago, and it was pretty small. I don&#039 ; t know how we all got in there, and certainly I don&#039 ; t know how everybody slept in there. Uh, but they all did, except for us. (laughs) Because my dad was the oldest child, we stayed at the hotel on, uh, generally the Henry Clay that was on Third Street, not too many blocks away. And we would stay there. But the rest of the family would stay at, uh, my grandparents&#039 ; house. And that&#039 ; s where you would--then you would go to shul and you would come back there, and you would have your, uh, your meals and, uh, and all. So it was a--it was a very close family--(laughs)--very close, at times. Uh, my grandfather&#039 ; s house, I, I mean, probably had--haven&#039 ; t gotten into--my, my grandmother was blind, uh, from the time-- CRANE: --on your father&#039 ; s side?-- WEINBERG: On my father&#039 ; s side. She was probably a four-foot little old lady, uh, who was totally blind. Uh, she was blind, uh, several years before I was born, so I never knew her to ha--be sighted. Um--(clears throat)--but she, um--she could do anything. I mean, she was so remarkable. She--you know, she might--she was cooking, and she&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Would you get me three cubes of sugar out of the pantry?&quot ; , and I&#039 ; d say, &quot ; I can&#039 ; t find it,&quot ; and she&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Oh, it&#039 ; s on the third shelf in the back on the left-hand side.&quot ; And there it would be. So, I mean, it was not a problem. She would walk herself over to the synagogue, uh, you know, with a walking stick. And, um, there was just nothing this little lady couldn&#039 ; t do. Uh-- CRANE: And what was her name? WEINBERG: Sarah. CRANE: Weinberg. WEINBERG: Weinberg. CRANE: And is this the house you told me a story about Sam Meyers? Is this the same house? WEINBERG: It is the same house. Sam Meyers, who many people may know of, is the Sam Meyers tuxedos and clothing chain, uh, that he started. Uh, I didn&#039 ; t find out until just la--within the last year. We were talking about Passover in an email with some relatives, and, um, they sent a picture of the, the family that got together. And so somebody said, &quot ; Well, who&#039 ; s the old man that&#039 ; s in the picture?&quot ; And I can remember the old man who lived at this house in a room in the house. And--just knew him as Mr. Meyers, the old man Meyers. Um, only to find out that this really wasn&#039 ; t my grandfather&#039 ; s house. (laughs) This was Mr. Meyers&#039 ; s house! (laughs) And they had an agreement in his old, you know, in his elderly years, that my grandparents would take care of him, and--till he passed on, and then the house would be theirs. And I don&#039 ; t think any--I didn&#039 ; t--I certainly didn&#039 ; t know that until just recently. CRANE: Wow. (Weinberg clears throat) Great story. Um--(Weinberg coughs)--you said that you went to Keneseth--is it Keneseth Israel? WEINBERG: Keneseth Israel. CRANE: As a child? WEINBERG: Um-hm. CRANE: Um, what can you share about, um, that congregation-- WEINBERG: --uh-- CRANE: --growing up as a child? WEINBERG: Uh, well, as a child it was a very Orthodox congregation. And, um--I just want to find out some dates here. Um, it, uh--it was an Orthodox congregation. Uh, it was actually the merger of two congregations, Agudath Achim and, um, Kol--uh, I, I&#039 ; ve got it, I&#039 ; ve got it here somewhere, I just have to look it up for you real quick. Uh, it was the merger of two Orthodox congregations. And, uh, it was Orthodox. Women sat in the balcony over the, uh, over the main sanctuary, uh, &#039 ; cause men and women didn&#039 ; t sit together. Uh, and in 1951, uh, the women decided they didn&#039 ; t like that arrangement so much. (laughs) So there was a sit-in. And they all just came down from the balcony and decided they were gonna sit in the main chapel. And that didn&#039 ; t go over so well with a lot of the Orthodox men, and, um, and they actually ended up calling the police--(laughs)--to have &#039 ; em all removed. (laughs) And, uh, but that was the beginning of the mixed congregation. Uh, they ultimately came to a compromise, and they said, &quot ; Okay, you can sit downstairs. The women will sit on the right-hand, uh, section of the, of the synagogue. The Orthodox men who want to be separate will sit on the left-hand side. And those who want to sit together, you will sit in the middle section.&quot ; And so that&#039 ; s sort of like the mechitza or the--if you wanted to sit on separate seating, you did. Um-- CRANE: So who called the police? The men? WEINBERG: Beth, Beth, Beth Hamedrash Ha--Hagadol, uh, was the name of the other synagogue that merged to, to form Keneseth. That happened in 1929. CRANE: Okay. So there were two Orthodox synagogues that joined for-- WEINBERG: --right-- CRANE: --Keneseth, right? WEINBERG: Right. And I, and I got that wrong. That is B&#039 ; nai Jacob and Beth Hamedrash Hagadol. CRANE: Okay. Became Keneseth Israel. WEINBERG: Became Keneseth Israel. CRANE: Okay. And you said the--did the men call the police? WEINBERG: The men called the police. CRANE: And they came. WEINBERG: And they came, and they--(laughs)--removed &#039 ; em. CRANE: Okay. Just wanted to make sure I understood that. WEINBERG: Yeah. You got it right. CRANE: Uh-- WEINBERG: So that was the beginning, really, of Keneseth going from an Orthodox synagogue to what is today, uh, actually a Conservative synagogue. And that didn&#039 ; t happen overnight either. That, uh, in about 1990, uh, it became an egalitarian type of synagogue, where women could participate. Women really couldn&#039 ; t participate in the service, uh, until 1990. Um, and when I say &quot ; participate,&quot ; they could certainly be in the congregation and pray, but they couldn&#039 ; t lead the service. Because, again, in the Orthodox congregations, men and women were separate. Uh, and you had separate roles, really. Um, but that started to evaporate, and in, uh, 1994, uh, we became a Conservative synagogue. And that, uh--that was a, you know, a battle. I mean, a lot of people left because it had become egalitarian and/or Conservative. And, um--and others remained. And now it&#039 ; s a, a pretty good--you know, one of the two Conservative congregations in town. CRANE: What was your family&#039 ; s connection to the synagogue? WEINBERG: Close. I mean, my grandfather was a gabbai. I don&#039 ; t know if you know what a gabbai is. CRANE: I do. WEINBERG: A gabbai is in charge of--(laughs)--of, of maintaining order. (laughs) So I&#039 ; m not sure, maybe he&#039 ; s the one who called the police to get the women out, but, uh, uh, maintains order, gives the, uh, honors out. Uh, and he did that for a long time. Uh, you know, when they, when they blow the shofar on the holidays, uh, he would be the one to, to call out the, uh, shofar, &quot ; Tekiah.&quot ; Uh, and I can still hear that today when somebody does that. Um, and my dad, again, was a--was involved. He actually belonged to all the congregations, because he was the kosher butcher. (laughs) Um, so he had an affiliation with all of &#039 ; em. But we were Keneseth members. CRANE: A due-paying affiliation or an honorarium? WEINBERG: No, the--a dues-paying, but affiliate, uh, co--uh, as a, um--not as a full-paying member--(laughs)--I don&#039 ; t think. CRANE: Wow. What was the differ--or how did your life change as far as being Jewish, um, and your religious practices change from your younger years, with your parents being more Orthodox, then your aunt and uncle being less-- WEINBERG: --yeah-- CRANE: --Orthodox? WEINBERG: --well, they--again, they kept a kosher home at my aunt and uncle&#039 ; s. Uh, we would go out to eat. And I was beginning to go out to eat at that point, although I maintained a modified kosher, I call it. Uh, maybe it&#039 ; s my own kosher. Uh, where I would eat meat out, but I wouldn&#039 ; t mix milk and meat, and I wouldn&#039 ; t eat, uh, you know, shellfish, seafood, uh, type things that were forbidden. Um, but I would eat out. Uh, and I still do that. Uh, but I still don&#039 ; t mix milk and meat, and I still don&#039 ; t eat certain fish. So, um, not much has changed since then. I actually maintained doing that while I was at the university. Uh, probably a lot of people don&#039 ; t remember, there, on Rose Street, there was a huge walk-in freezer where you could rent, uh, drawers or lockers, uh, and I would store meat there. Uh, and then periodically I&#039 ; d go down, and you walk into this lo--you wear this big, uh, Alaskan coat that they had hanging on a hook. You walk into this walk-in freezer, used your key to open up the locker, and take your meat out or put meat in. And I would keep that and take it home, uh, to the apartments that I lived in and maintained, uh, eating kosher there. CRANE: Where was this? WEINBERG: On Rose. It was near where the, uh--(clears throat)--near where the hospital is now. Um, there was a motel on that side of the street. Um, I don&#039 ; t-- CRANE: --and a football field-- WEINBERG: I don&#039 ; t remember the football field. Um, but there was a motel and there was a big--big freezer walk-in area that you could rent lockers. CRANE: Hmm. Um, what were your experience with religious school and Hebrew school? WEINBERG: Well, you know, everything--if you weren&#039 ; t in school and if you weren&#039 ; t playing in the yard, you were at the Jewish Community Center. Uh, it became a big part of everybody&#039 ; s life from the time you were playing Little League until you got out of high school and, and after. But, uh, the Hebrew school, there was a community Hebrew school by the time I was going to Hebrew school. At one time they--each congregation had their own Hebrew, uh, program. And, uh, then they had a cheder that, downtown, that was a, more than one synagogue. And all--when the center got built in the 1950s, uh, the Hebrew school--the community Hebrew school went down to the Jewish Community Center. Which was closer to where I lived. Um--(clears throat)--so that&#039 ; s where we had Hebrew. And after school either, uh, generally, at that time, a taxi would pick you up at Belknap School and take you to the center, and maybe if you were lucky you could stop and get something to eat along the way. The taxi driver would stop for you and you could get a little somethin&#039 ; . Uh, and then we&#039 ; d go to Hebrew at the center on, uh, I think it was Monday and Wednesdays, uh, after school. CRANE: There were Reformed, Conservative, and still Orthodox congregations while you were growing up. I&#039 ; m assuming that the, the skill level for--or the requirements for a bar or bat mitzvah, uh, were different from--in the different congregations. But did they--were they all the same because they all went to the community center? WEINBERG: Well, the Reform weren&#039 ; t having bar or bat mitzvahs at that time. Um-- CRANE: --oh, okay-- WEINBERG: --if they did, it wasn&#039 ; t much. Uh, the Conservative and the Orthodox, uh, learned their Hebrew there. And you took your bar mitzvah lessons when you were maybe 12 or thereabouts. Uh, you would take your bar mitzvah lessons, uh, from the cantor at the synagogue. And I can remember--(laughs)--on Village Drive there was a bus line, and I would carry a Webcor tape recorder. It was a reel-to-reel recorder that probably weighed as much as I did. It was a good forty or fifty pounds, I think. And I would lug that on a transit line to downtown and walk a block over to the synagogue, carrying--(laughs)--that tape recorder. And that&#039 ; s how I learned my bar mitzvah from Cantor Elias. And if you couldn&#039 ; t afford one of those Webcor tape recorders, uh, you, um, he would make--he would, he would, uh, record a record for you that you could study from. One of those big, uh--I forgot what they called &#039 ; em now. Say, uh, thirty-two--what is it, thirty-two or thirty-three speed, uh, records? They were this, they were this big. CRANE: The big thick one. Yeah. WEINBERG: Uh, and that&#039 ; s how you learned your bar mitzvah. And then you&#039 ; d go in, the cantor would--you know, you&#039 ; d try to do what you were supposed to do, and he&#039 ; d say, &quot ; No, you&#039 ; re not doing it right, and you&#039 ; re not gonna be bar mitzvahed.&quot ; But, you know, everybody was. (laughs) CRANE: Share any stories that stand out in your memory during the years that you were growing up Jewish in Louisville. WEINBERG: Well, certainly the Jewish Community Center was the center of everybody&#039 ; s life, like I said. Um, if it wasn&#039 ; t Little League, uh, it was, um, you know, by the time you got into high school there were high school clubs. Uh, they were Jewish clubs. They were probably about thirty, uh, thirty, thirty-five, in each chapter. There were twelve chapters. Uh, six boys chapters and six girls chapters. Uh, of the boys, three of those were AZA [Aleph Zadik Aleph]-affiliated. Um, which is a national, um, affiliation which had regional conventions and national conventions. Uh, some of &#039 ; em were local. Um, Ral AZA was one. Resnick AZA, Mu Sigma. Um, Vincent AZA. Condores. Uh, Mu Sigma--did I say Mu Sigma? Uh, and, uh, the girls had six chapters as well. Uh, Jolson--two of &#039 ; em were BBG [B&#039 ; nai B&#039 ; rith Girls] chapters comparable to the AZA but for the girls. Uh, Jolson and Brandeis BBG. Uh, they had, uh--that was Mu--um, Modern Femmes, GK, Amitié, um-- CRANE: And what took place in all of these-- WEINBERG: --oh-- CRANE: --clubs or organizations or-- WEINBERG: --it was--it was like being part of a fraternity. Uh, you would meet weekly. Uh, you would participate in sports at the center. Uh, you competed against each other. Um, there was always basketball, football, softball, that you, uh--you competed. Um, they were run in a parliamentary fashion, so you learned a little bit about parliamentary procedure. You had your own, uh, treasurer, so you had some bookkeeping, and, you know, you ran for office. I think Jerry Abramson, uh, who became, uh, mayor of Louisville for, uh, years--they call him mayor for life--and, uh, he was mayor. He&#039 ; s been a lieutenant governor, uh, of Kentucky. Uh, he is currently at the White House, in the West Wing, as a liaison between the, uh, Oval Office and municipalities throughout the country. Uh, and he would tell you he got his start there. Um, he, uh--we had two different teen boards. One was called a teenage board and one was called the club council board. The club councils were consisted of representation of the different clubs. The teenage board was supposed to be representative of all teenagers at the center, whether you were part of the club system or not. He was the president of that teenage board when I was president of the club council. And I always used to say, &quot ; Well, you might be president of the teenage board, but club council really has the clout, because three hundred of these kids belong to the club, to, uh, the clubs.&quot ; And there weren&#039 ; t many kids that weren&#039 ; t affiliated with clubs at that time. Uh, so we were over at the center probably just about every day. During the summer, you were there for the pool, the tennis, uh, just to, to be with other kids. Uh, it was the hangout. Um, and, um, so that probably, as a child growing up, that&#039 ; s probably left the biggest impression. Um-- CRANE: How many kids were there? WEINBERG: In clubs? About three hundred-plus, in the clubs. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know how many children there were in that age group, but, uh, there were, you know, maybe--maybe 350, 400. I don&#039 ; t know. It was a big group. CRANE: In your age group? WEINBERG: Yeah. Well, when I say &quot ; age group,&quot ; three years of high school. These were all--the clubs then were tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grade. Um, there were also some junior high clubs you could be in before that, in the eighth and ninth grade. Maybe seventh, eight, and ninth. Uh, now you don&#039 ; t have--uh, the, there&#039 ; s not as many clubs over there today. There may be a couple, uh, and they&#039 ; re the, uh, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth, uh, to be in the AZA chapters. CRANE: In doing some research, I noticed that there have been and still are a lot of Weinbergs in Louisville. So how were you or are you related to other Jewish families in Louisville? Or in Kentucky, for that matter? WEINBERG: Well, I&#039 ; m not related to a lot of Weinbergs here. Uh, my dad had a brother, Morris Weinberg. Uh, he has, uh--he had, uh, uh, four, four kids. Uh, Mendel, uh, Faye, Perry, and Harris. Um, Harris was a year--Mendel was my age, Harris was a year younger than me, Faye was the next down the line, and Perry was younger than that. Uh, on the Berman side, I&#039 ; m related to a lot of Bermans. Uh-- CRANE: And the Bermans are your mother&#039 ; s-- WEINBERG: My mother&#039 ; s side. CRANE: Okay. WEINBERG: Uh, on my mother&#039 ; s side, uh, again, she had, uh, four other siblings. Uh, they had, uh, seven kids. So I had seven first cousins on the Berman side. Actually I had ten on the Weinberg side. Uh, but the Berman side, if you go down the, uh, the family tree there, I have a cousin who has a family tree history, uh, that goes back to the 1700s, uh, of which he&#039 ; s got about fifteen hundred names on there that are Berman-related, uh, as it spreads out. Uh, my grandfather, Harry Berman, was not the largest segment of that. (laughs) Uh, but there&#039 ; s a lot of, lot of Bermans. They--they used to have family picnics every few years. Now they may have &#039 ; em every five or ten years, uh, but we still have a big family picnic, and you find out people that you never knew were Bermans are Bermans. CRANE: And they go back to the 1700s in Kentucky? WEINBERG: Nah, nah. I didn&#039 ; t say in Kentucky. CRANE: Oh. Okay. WEINBERG: (laughs) Uh, but they went back a long way. Uh, here&#039 ; s, uh--they, they all come from, uh, Yittzhak Leib Berman, from 1786. Uh, and he, and--Yitzhak Leib was my grandfather&#039 ; s great-great grandfather. CRANE: Okay. So your-- WEINBERG: --that&#039 ; s my great-great-great-- CRANE: Yeah. WEINBERG: (laughs) Three greats. CRANE: Gotcha. Okay. Um--(pause)--what did your family teach you about Judaism, and how has what you learned from them impacted your life? WEINBERG: Well, I mean, I, I have followed the tradition of Judaism, uh, as a traditional Conservative. (laughs) Um, certainly not Orthodox, uh, although I still keep a lot of that tradition. Uh, uh, my kids do. My son is currently the president of Keneseth. Uh, my daughter in Connecticut, uh, is very active in their Conservative synagogue. Uh, and their kids are all active. So I think, uh, uh, we&#039 ; ve kept a connection to our, our religion and our tradition. Um, and it&#039 ; s a good feeling. You know, I, I, uh, I try to--I don&#039 ; t get to synagogue as often as I&#039 ; d like or as I should, um--I&#039 ; m there for the holidays, uh, and there whenever there&#039 ; s a yahrzeit or a yizkor. Uh, as a memorial to my parents. Uh, but I try to go once a week in the morning, uh, on a Thursday morning, to help make a minyan, because you need ten--ten Jews--it used to be ten men. Now it can be ten men-slash-women to make a minyan, uh, so that you can say certain prayers as a, a, uh, community service. Uh, and there&#039 ; re certain things you can&#039 ; t do if you don&#039 ; t have that minyan, uh, one of &#039 ; em being saying a Mourner&#039 ; s Kaddish. Uh, so I try to be there for those who, who need ten people. Uh, that&#039 ; s probably a direct result of the fact that I needed ten of--you know, when I was younger. Sometimes you&#039 ; d had &#039 ; em and sometimes you didn&#039 ; t, but I thought it was necessary to try to participate and help make that. CRANE: What&#039 ; s it like having your son Scott as president of your synagogue? WEINBERG: Well, he&#039 ; s president and I&#039 ; m treasurer. And I never would have been treasurer if he wasn&#039 ; t, hadn&#039 ; t been president, but I couldn&#039 ; t turn him down. (Crane laughs) Uh, and, uh--and he always did want to be the boss. (laughs) So, uh, so now he has a chance. Uh, it, it&#039 ; s good. I mean, I&#039 ; m glad that he has that feeling and that desire, uh, to make that commitment to the synagogue. And it is a commitment, &#039 ; cause it&#039 ; s never an ending thing. It&#039 ; s, it&#039 ; s always something coming up. CRANE: How big is the congregation? WEINBERG: (sighs) The congregation is probably about 250 member units. Uh, so some of those are married, some of &#039 ; em have kids, some of &#039 ; em are single. Um, it&#039 ; s--I, you know, I--there&#039 ; s probably close to six hundred, seven hundred, maybe, total, including children. CRANE: Before we get into your college and your adult life, is there anything else unique we should know about your family background or your childhood years that you&#039 ; d like to share? WEINBERG: Uh--(pause)--well, I didn&#039 ; t tell you how I met my wife. CRANE: I&#039 ; m--(Weinberg laughs)--I think that&#039 ; s on here, but go ahead and tell me now. WEINBERG: Okay. No, go ahead. CRANE: Nope, let&#039 ; s do that now. How did you-- WEINBERG: --you know-- CRANE: You didn&#039 ; t meet your wife until after you finished college. WEINBERG: Until after I-- CRANE: --so-- WEINBERG: --finished college, that&#039 ; s right. CRANE: --let&#039 ; s go through college and-- WEINBERG: --all right, let&#039 ; s-- CRANE: --then we can do that. WEINBERG: Uh, go back to high school again. I can remember goin&#039 ; --the synagogues were all concentrated downtown when I was growing up. They&#039 ; ve all moved east since then. They used to call &#039 ; em by their name of their street, even though they had a congregational name. Um, and just (??) Adath Jeshurun would be called Brook Street. Uh, Third Street, uh, was Adath Israel. Uh, you know, but they were on Brook. They were on First. They were on Second. They were on Third. And that&#039 ; s the way you knew &#039 ; em. And there was a bowling alley in between us, on Brook Street. Well, I can remember on the High Holidays or any of the holidays, especially the ones that occurred in the early fall--what was going on in the early fall? There was the World Series. So people would leave for a while to go down to the bowling alley so they could find out what was happening in the World Series. Or if there was a football game going on--(laughs)--they&#039 ; d go out and listen to their radios or go down and see what they could find out about the ballgame during those holidays. Uh, so you could always--I could always remember some people just leaving to go out and sit in their car to listen to the radio to see what was goin&#039 ; on, uh, in those ballgames. I, I sort of miss that a little bit, that these World Series are played so late in the year now, I can&#039 ; t--you know, in November, late October, early November, because probably one of my favorite memories is going to high school when they played in the middle of the afternoon, havin&#039 ; a transistor radio with you that you would plug in to your ears, see what was going on, and maybe sometimes a teacher would turn a ballgame on on the television for you. But you don&#039 ; t have that anymore. (laughs) CRANE: Everybody has their own phone to watch it. WEINBERG: That&#039 ; s right. Yeah, they&#039 ; re not during the day. They do it at night now. (laughs) CRANE: I know that you attended the University of Kentucky. What years were you there and why did you choose UK [University of Kentucky]? WEINBERG: Well, uh, I was there from &#039 ; 64 to &#039 ; 68, and I would say it was late &#039 ; 68, not May of &#039 ; 68, &#039 ; cause I had deferred an additional semester because--(clears throat)--you know, the Vietnam War was goin&#039 ; on then. And they were giving student deferments to fulltime students, so I thought, &quot ; Well, why not take an extra semester and be a student rather than go over to Vietnam?&quot ; Uh, but why did I go to Kentucky? My sister went to Kentucky before I did, uh, five years before I did. So I think there was some connection there. I can always remember my cousins listening to the U of K ballgames on the radio, whether they be football or basketball. (clears throat) And I just became a Kentucky fan. I could&#039 ; ve gone to a number of universities when I was graduating, but it was pretty cheap for an in-state student to go to University of Kentucky. Um, when I think about what I pay for my children to go to the university when they--well, one went to, uh, uh, Indiana. Uh, and, uh--they were--I mean, they were thirty, forty, fifty thousand dollars a year. I paid $120 a semester tuition to go to the University of Kentucky--$120. Uh, when it went up to 125, there was protests. (laughs) Uh, but, uh--you know, Scott went to Emory. It was a private university. That was expensive. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know what it&#039 ; s gonna cost my grandchildren to go. But it&#039 ; s just, uh, just phenomenal. Uh, so I decided I--you know, why spend that money, uh, to go somewhere else when I could go for $120 a semester? That didn&#039 ; t include housing and food. Housing was costing more than, than tuition was. But, you know, you found somebody to share that expense with. (laughs) CRANE: What did you study while you were there? WEINBERG: Oh my gosh. Uh, I was--well, I--my first year--my first semester of my first year I was in Haggin Hall. Um, that was generally where the boys&#039 ; freshman dorm--where most of us went. Uh, there was Donovan also, which was an older one, but Haggin was the newer one. Uh, so that&#039 ; s where I was my first semester. Um, I roomed with a guy, uh, there that, uh--his name was Kurt. He--(laughs)--Kurt was fro--and you didn&#039 ; t select your roommate then ; they just gave you somebody--uh, Kurt was from Fulton County, Kentucky. Um, he would claim that Fulton County was the banana capital of the world. Uh, and if you look it up today, it will tell you that Fulton County was the banana capital of the world! (laughs) And I would say, &quot ; Well, how can that be? They don&#039 ; t grow bananas in Fulton County, Kentucky.&quot ; But 70 percent of all bananas that came to the United States went through Fulton County. Um, and so--uh, he, he probably had never met a Jew before. He was--I mean, if you know where Fulton County is, it&#039 ; s in far western southern part of the state. Uh, never met a Jew. Probably thought we had horns at that time. Um, he certainly didn&#039 ; t like the smell of kosher salami that I would hang in the room. (laughs) Uh, but, uh, but we got along fine. Uh, the second semester they didn&#039 ; t have enough room for everybody in the dorms, so they didn&#039 ; t require you to stay in the dorm. And so I moved out and went into a apartment. Um, I went in with Howard Passamaneck, who was a friend of mine from Louisville. We had been high school friends, uh, to, uh, Lyndhurst. Uh, Lyndhurst had an apartment that they had just put up. It was brand new at that time. It&#039 ; s fifty years old today. But, uh, it&#039 ; s, uh, it was new. Um, it was comfortable. It was an efficiency apartment. And Howard and I stayed there. Uh, after that, Howard and I moved to Lowry Lane, off of, uh, Nicholasville Road. Uh, that&#039 ; s where the shopping center is out there. Um, the--what, what&#039 ; s the name of that--I can&#039 ; t remember the name of the shopping center. Lowry La--no-- CRANE: It&#039 ; s sti--it was still there. I think they just tore it down recently. WEINBERG: Anyway. Lynd--Lyndhurst, Howard and I, again, were there. We didn&#039 ; t stay--we--we moved around because we didn&#039 ; t want to pay the rent for the summer, or--(clears throat)--so we, we were in different places. (laughs) Uh, after that we were on, uh, Lowry Lane. Again, uh, that&#039 ; s off of, uh, Nicholasville. Um, we were on Pinewood Place, which was off of the Belt--off of, uh, New Circle Road. Uh, there used to be a hotel on that corner, and it was--I think the name of it was the Continental. CRANE: Continental Inn. WEINBERG: The Continental Inn. And it was--it was sort of interesting, because it was sort of a tropical--it had a tropical ambience about it, and that was sort of different for that day and age. An atrium or whatever. Uh, but this apartment was right behind that. Um, we were in--(laughs)--Aylesford. Uh, Howard had already--had left the university, and I was in with a guy named Moon Mullins. Was not Jewish. CRANE: I remember him. WEINBERG: Uh, Moon Mullins. Um, learned quite a lesson during that. Uh, one is, uh, my cousin Harris Weinberg came to visit. Uh, we were cooking. I left the apartment to go get something, and something caught fire in the apartment on the stove. He called the fire department, but he didn&#039 ; t know where he was! (both laugh) So he had to run down the street--(Crane coughs)--with the, to the sign to get the sign--to see what road he was on to come back and tell &#039 ; em where the fire was. Something that stayed with me all my life, because when I had kids and we had babysitters, I always made sure that they had the address--(laughs)--uh, before we left. Um, we did have a nice party there on that street. I remember that little efficiency apartment must&#039 ; ve had two hundred, three hundred kids there, in--all over the place. Police came to break it up, several times. (laughs) Uh, I was walking somebody home, uh, when I heard the police cars coming. I said, &quot ; Gosh, there&#039 ; s a lot of police cars. Wonder what that is.&quot ; They went in and arrested everybody that was over there except me. (laughs) I was gone. Uh, they had paddy wagons over there that took everybody. All my friends, both from Louisville and elsewhere. Um-- CRANE: For just public intoxication, or-- WEINBERG: Because they--intoxication, it was too loud, the police had asked &#039 ; em--to be honest, I think the reason they were arrested is because it got a little out of hand. The police officers were a little younger. The girls got a little fresh with &#039 ; em. One took the billy club, one took the mace, one took the car. So--(laughs)--uh--so all of these pe--they had to get the dean of students to go down and get &#039 ; em out. Um, but it was, uh, part of the growing up. (laughs) CRANE: Fun times. WEINBERG: Uh, lived on Virginia Avenue with, uh, George Schwartzman. Uh, George was, uh, from Buffalo, New York. Uh, he was a senior, I was a junior. Uh, we still keep in touch today. He, he&#039 ; s been in--actually, he&#039 ; s been in Kentucky more recently than he has over the--in the last fifty years. Uh, so we&#039 ; ve been in contact with each other still. Uh, and then I was on Augusta Arms, which, again, was off of, uh, New Circle Road, uh, and I was in there with Mike Needleman (??) and Harry Jacobs. CRANE: What did you study while you were at UK? Or did you? WEINBERG: (sighs) Well, funny you should ask, because--(laughs)--the first time I took my kids to--up to the University of Kentucky, I was showing &#039 ; em, &quot ; Oh, I lived here, and I lived here, and I lived here,&quot ; and Beverly would say, &quot ; Well, show &#039 ; em where you went to class!&quot ; (laughs) Uh, so, uh--I did go to school, and I was in the, uh, College of, uh, Business and Economics. I stu--uh, I got my BS in accounting. Uh, that building was pretty new at the time, although I&#039 ; m not sure it&#039 ; s still there anymore, but it was-- CRANE: Is that the Commerce Building? WEINBERG: Yeah. CRANE: It is. WEINBERG: Um, so, uh, that&#039 ; s, that&#039 ; s where, uh, that&#039 ; s where I was. I got an award--(laughs)--I got an--I was in the Air Force ROTC [Reserve Officers&#039 ; Training Corps] for my first two years. After that you had to commit to being in the Air Force, uh, if you went any longer. And they told me I couldn&#039 ; t fly &#039 ; cause I had glasses, and I was probably too short anyway. So, uh, I decided to drop out. But my second year I got an award in the Air Force ROTC for best student in Air Force ROTC. I&#039 ; m not sure that I was the best student, but one of the upperclassmen I helped out with accounting, and I think that&#039 ; s why I got that award--(laughs)--because I was able to help him get through his classes. So, uh-- CRANE: Describe your relationship with any Jewish or non-Jewish organizations on UK&#039 ; s campus at the time. WEINBERG: Any Jewish or non-Jewish-- CRANE: There was a Jewish fraternity on campus. WEINBERG: There was a Jewish fraternity. Um, there was ZBT [Zeta Beta Tau]. CRANE: And were you a member? WEINBERG: Uh, for maybe a month. (laughs) I was actually the president of the pledge class, uh, when I came in. Uh, but I didn&#039 ; t stick with it. I, I really--I was in an apartment. I was having a good time in apartments. Uh, a lot of my friends were not in ZBT. Um, I think they came knocking on my door one morning, about two o&#039 ; clock in the morning, and wanted to--me to get up and do somethin&#039 ; , and I just pulled the pillow over my head and said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m not doing that!&quot ; (laughs) And, uh, went back to sleep, and that was the last time I was in ZBT. Um, I don&#039 ; t--I think I was a little burned out anyway. I&#039 ; d been very active in the clubs in the center, uh, for, you know, three years. And I tha--I just thought I didn&#039 ; t need that socialization. They weren&#039 ; t doing that much that I couldn&#039 ; t do anyway. Um, and I found it too time-consuming, and, uh, and I had other friends that were not in, not participants. That was the only Jewish fraternity on campus. Uh, and when I say &quot ; Jewish fraternity,&quot ; it was the only fraternity Jews could join! Uh, the others would--didn&#039 ; t admit Jews, uh, whether it be--and there were no sororities, uh, that admitted, uh, Jews at that time. So, uh--but I ne--again, that&#039 ; s probably the extent of the discrimination I found on UK&#039 ; s campus, because, um, I, I practiced my Juda--I mean, I practiced my Judaism on U of K--at U of K--uh, on holidays. I probably missed more than the average student because I would go to be out for yizkors or yahrzeits or Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur or whatever the holiday might be. I never found it a problem with any professor to make up any work or to question why I was gone for those, um--I think--I found out that if you respect yourself and your principles and your religion that others will respect you as well, and I found that throughout life. I found that in the army, when I was in, doing basic training. Um, first--well, do you, do you want to get into it? CRANE: Sure. WEINBERG: So we--when I was doing basic training, you have to do KP [kitchen police]. KP duty, everybody rotated through KP duty. Now they liked me spreading the bacon because I didn&#039 ; t like to touch it. Uh, and the other guys would eat it as fast as they could make it. So I was the guy who--(laughs)--they&#039 ; d have spread the bacon. Um, I also kept kosher meat--(laughs)--uh, that they would send me from home, little packages of corned beef or salami or whatever, so that when they had food that I wouldn&#039 ; t eat, I could go back into the kitchen and grab my salami or corned beef. Uh, never a problem unless somebody ate it before I got there. (laughs) Uh, we were out on bivouac in the army, and I had maybe a yizkor, uh, memorial service. And I told &#039 ; em, and I didn&#039 ; t, I didn&#039 ; t do the bivouac. I went to services. Uh-- CRANE: Where were you stationed? WEINBERG: Fort Polk, Louisiana. Very bad during the summer. (laughs) I was there from April fifteenth, tax day, until August. CRANE: Wow. WEINBERG: Um-- CRANE: What was your, uh--just going back to the ZBTs for a minute, what was your pledge class like? Were they mostly Jewish students? WEINBERG: Well, yeah. The pledge class was almost always--almost all Jewish. I would say that--I don&#039 ; t know of anybody in there that wasn&#039 ; t Jewish. But I didn&#039 ; t know everybody, &#039 ; cause I didn&#039 ; t stay that long. (laughs) Uh, but most all of &#039 ; em were Jewish. And most of &#039 ; em were from the Northeast. Um, and maybe that--you know, I didn&#039 ; t, I didn&#039 ; t know them. A lot of the kids that I knew were from Louisville, um, and in this area. And those are the friends I maintained, and, uh, and kept there. CRANE: And did you have any kind of connection with Hillel or any other Jewish organizations while you were on campus? WEINBERG: Hillel. Uh, Hillel was somewhat active. It was, um, based out of the temple, I think. Uh, that&#039 ; s where most of the events were. Um, and they were very nice. They had, you know--periodically they&#039 ; d have, uh, dinners. And if you&#039 ; re a college student and can find a free dinner, it will attract you there. And, uh, that&#039 ; s where I met a lot of the, you know, a lot of the people that were at U of K and some of the locals, uh--you know, Judy Wurmser, I think, uh, um, was a local. Uh, who else? Um, Susan Jacobs-- CRANE: --um-hm-- WEINBERG: --was a local. Um, so, um, you know, we met, uh, we met some of those people. You know, one of the--certainly one of the families that took all of us in that was like a second home to us, uh, was yours. Uh, your mom and dad, uh, had us over for any holiday we didn&#039 ; t go home for. Um, they were just, uh, great. Uh, Irv and, um, Irv and Martha Steinberg. Um, probably another reason that we were always over there was because, uh, yeah, you and your sister, uh, uh, Cookie. Uh, we called her Cookie. Her name was Betty. But I&#039 ; ve never called her Betty. She&#039 ; s Cookie. (laughs) CRANE: Just Cookie? WEINBERG: Uh, but it was a second home to us. Uh, and your parents, uh, not only made meals, but they were--your dad was entertaining. (laughs) Uh, he&#039 ; s always fun to be around. CRANE: &quot ; Fun.&quot ; I&#039 ; ve not quite heard that description before, but-- WEINBERG: --he was fun-- CRANE: --I&#039 ; ll remember it. Describe the--you touched on this a little bit, but the climate on campus for Jews becoming members of non-Jewish fraternities, um, that--did everyone, uh, were there more of you and less of the ZBTs? Were there more people that didn&#039 ; t affiliate? And how did you connect with them? Um, how did you meet other Jewish kids on campus? WEINBERG: Well, I mean, I, I, I probably knew more ki--more Jewish kids on campus than I knew of ZBTers. Um, and we had our, well, we had our own fun. You know, we could have our own parties. We could have, uh, our own dances. We could do whatever we chose, uh, without the restrictions of a fraternity. Um, and so that&#039 ; s what-- CRANE: --if I&#039 ; m not mistaken-- WEINBERG: --we did. CRANE: --you had a couple of--not roommates, but other people in your apartment complex that were Jewish. WEINBERG: Yup. Jay Levine was out there. Bruce Gimmer (??) was out there. Uh, Howard Rosenberg was out there. Mickey Lorch (??) was out there. Uh, there were a lot. Uh, again, a lot of--a lot of those that were in Zeebs were, uh, were from the Northeast. Um, always wondered how they found their way to Kentucky, but I think it was, again, because it was cheap, even for out-of-state students. Uh, it wasn&#039 ; t $120, but it was still cheap. Um, but, you know, we, we, we had a lot of people up there from Louisville, a lot of people. Uh, Jay Levine, Howard Passamaneck. Jay passed away a number of years ago now. Uh, Howard Rosenberg and I are still very good friends. Um, Jaye Hinerfeld Bittner, um, was there for--till she failed out. But--(laughs)--but she came back to be a very good student. Um, and, uh--but we&#039 ; re still best of friends. Um, Mike Needleman, uh, was there. Just a whole slew of people. Hettie Miller-Reuben (??), uh, title. (laughs) Uh, Louis Reuben, uh, and Hettie, uh, were dating when we were there, uh, ultimately got married, uh, when we got out. Um, who else was there? George Schwartzman I told you. Ben Bayer (??) was there, a lot of fun, uh, from Danville, Kentucky. Um, Jill Essie (??)--Simon, now--Jill Essie was there. Um, Bruce Goomer (??), uh-- CRANE: --you did know a lot of Jewish people, did you-- WEINBERG: --Max Goldsmith, uh, Teddy Gordon, uh, Mickey Lorch. Uh, Teddy Gordon, by the way, he&#039 ; s probably the one you hear about all the time taking the school board to court, uh, who also took &#039 ; em to the Supreme Court over, uh, the busing issue. (coughs) And won, to some degree. There&#039 ; s still busing, but under a very different basis. CRANE: So most of these people were from Louisville? So--I mean, uh-- WEINBERG: --most-- CRANE: --obviously some of &#039 ; em weren&#039 ; t. WEINBERG: Well, most of &#039 ; em weren&#039 ; t. Uh, Mel--there was a Melvin Orlansky, from Mississippi. Uh-- CRANE: And somehow you all just found each other and-- WEINBERG: --yeah-- CRANE: --and connected. WEINBERG: Yeah. Probably some through Hillel. Uh, Judy Witzer was there. Uh, Mickey Franklin was there. Met Simone Bloomfield, who, uh, ultimately married, uh, Arty, uh-- CRANE: --Salomon-- WEINBERG: --Salomon, right. Arty Solomon. Uh, so again, where did I meet those? I--probably at Hillel, but I, I&#039 ; m not sure. Just sort of happened. CRANE: One of those wild parties. WEINBERG: At one of those parties where nobody got arrested. CRANE: Um, how did your time at UK impact your Jewish identity? Did it change from living in Louisville and spending all that time at the Comm--Jewish Community Center? Um, did it stay the same? WEINBERG: Well, I still identified strongly with Judaism, um, whether I was here or whether I was there. Uh, again, I never found any anti-Semitism on campus, uh, that affected me. Um, you know, I kept my kosher, uh, uh, restrictions within the apartment. You know, I wasn&#039 ; t always with--well, none of the roommates I had really kept kosher. But they kept--but I had silverware--(laughs)--that I would paint with polish, nail polish, on the ends of &#039 ; em so you&#039 ; d know which ones were milk silverware and which ones were meat, so they wouldn&#039 ; t get &#039 ; em confused and, uh, and keep everything straight in those apartments. So, you know, I, I didn&#039 ; t find it to be a problem, uh, to maintain my Jewishness and yet do everything I wanted, uh, out there. CRANE: What did you do after you graduated? WEINBERG: Oh, man. Uh, well, I--(laughs)-- CRANE: And how did you meet your wife? WEINBERG: Uh, when I graduated, uh, I was already in the reserves, the army reserves. Uh, and I&#039 ; d already been recruited by General Electric, uh, for their financial management program. Uh, I didn&#039 ; t--hadn&#039 ; t--hadn&#039 ; t done my basic training yet, uh, when I got out. So I deferred with General Electric until I finished with my basic training. Uh, so I, uh, I did do that. I went and did my basic training at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Uh, I, uh--afte--after Fort Polk, um, I started with General Electric. I met my wife Beverly on a blind date, arranged by Mayor Jerry Abramson. Uh, Jerry and I had been close at that time, uh, for years. We grew up together. And, uh, Beverly&#039 ; s best friend was Jerry&#039 ; s sister. Uh, and Jerry and I were hanging around a lot. And I didn&#039 ; t know Beverly, because she was a few years younger than me. Uh, but, uh--but it seemed to work out. (laughs) We&#039 ; ve been married for forty-four years now. I hope that&#039 ; s right when she hears this, but it is. Forty-four. (laughs) Um, after that, uh, I was with General Electric for, uh, fifteen years. Uh, I, uh, had become the, uh, manager of accounting for the western half of, uh, distribution sales. Um, I, uh, had been offered transfers a number of times and was close to taking a couple of those and just chose not to. Yeah, so then my upward mobility, I felt, was limited, and it was time to either wear the monogram as a tattoo or to, uh, find somethin&#039 ; else. And so I left General Electric, and actually I opened up a, uh, uh, sandwich and pizza shop in the mall--see, you didn&#039 ; t know that either, did you?--uh, called All American Hero. It was a franchise. It was in Oxmoor Mall. Uh, I did that for about five years. Um, and then, uh, the mall, the Oxmoor Mall, wanted the food, uh, the food stores to move up to a food court, and it was, uh--it just--then they wanted me to pay for that, to renovate it, to do the, all the--what I had done in the shop. And then while I was selling pizza and subs, they wanted that to be two separate shops. Uh, and so I didn&#039 ; t, um, I chose not to do that. Uh, during the time that I was, um--while I had the shop, uh, I also had become the chie--CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville. Uh, so I had the shop open for about five years. Uh, after about three years I became the CFO, as wel,l of the Federation, and I spent the next twenty-three years with them. CRANE: What exactly is the Jewish--it&#039 ; s Jewish Community Federation, right? WEINBERG: When I started, it was the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville, JCFL. Um, it&#039 ; s changed a little bit in its nature since then, but it was that way for most of my career. Uh, and what is it? The easiest way to describe what the Federation was is it&#039 ; s the Metro United Way of the Jewish community. You raised dollars and allocated &#039 ; em to recipient agencies. Um, so that&#039 ; s, I mean, that&#039 ; s, that&#039 ; s what we did. That&#039 ; s what it was. Uh, we were sort of a coordinator of programming through those agencies, uh, simply because you could allocate dollars where you wanted the programs to be. And so, uh, you became a coordinator of moving the community in the direction you thought it needed to, and who could provide those services in the most effective and efficient way. CRANE: So what were exactly were your responsibilities, and how did--what was your relationship with allocating those dollars, and who--what agencies got them? WEINBERG: (sighs) Well, I, I always say that the reason I went with the, with the feder--number one, when I went with the Federation, I probably thought it was just gonna be for a couple years, and then I was just gonna move along and go back to the for-profit arena. Uh, but I found, working for the Federation, that it was much more rewarding than just trying to see what the bottom li--the bottom line, getting the best net income you could. Uh, I found, uh, working in the Jewish community for something you believed in that was helping people, uh, was much more rewarding than working for a General Electric or somebody like them. Uh, how did that happen? Um, the--you know, we raised dollars. We had committees that would review requests for allocations. We had certain local, uh, agencies, uh, that we always allocated to, whether it be the Jewish Community Center, the Jewish Family and Vocational Service, uh, the local Hebrew schools, um, um, the Council of Jewish Women, uh, you know, they&#039 ; d make requests and then we would have to pare it down because there&#039 ; s--while everybody has a great cause, probably the most difficult job is that there&#039 ; s never enough resources for the needs in the community. And so, uh, you would just ha--you&#039 ; d have to make--these committees would make the decisions on how to allocate those dollars. Alan Engel was the executive director at that time. He&#039 ; s who hired me. Uh, he was, uh, just outstanding. Um, he came with a long, uh, family history of community service, uh, with federations. His dad was a federation director. Uh, he had been around in Cleveland and, uh, uh, St. Louis and Denver before he came to Louisville. Um, so we, we worked well together, and I, and I stayed, uh, with the Federation. CRANE: How did the Federation get its money? WEINBERG: Uh, annual campaigns. Um, go out to the community, ask for dollars. Um, had a lot of volunteers that did that. Uh, but, you know, you had, uh, those that were your larger donors, you, uh, we had, uh, million-dollar dinners, uh, where those people would come and make their, their gifts. It would be a nice dinner, and we&#039 ; d have a nice speaker. Uh, Coach Cal came to speak the first year he was, uh, at Kentucky. Um, I&#039 ; ll tell you a story about that too. Uh, and they introduced me to Cal because I was a big Kentucky fan. And I said, &quot ; This is David Weinberg, want you to meet him. Big Kentucky fan.&quot ; And I said, &quot ; And I got a good story for you.&quot ; Right after I had graduated the university, um, there was a girl that was going to University of Georgia that asked me to come down for their sorority dance, and it was a weekend Kentucky was playing Georgia in basketball. I said, &quot ; What a great weekend! Go to the sorority dance, go to the ballgame. Can&#039 ; t beat that.&quot ; I get down there--and they only had a cracker-box of a gym down at Georgia at that time. I couldn&#039 ; t find a ticket. So I was in the, uh, hotel with the team. I said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m gonna call Adolph Rupp and ask him for a ticket. (laughs) I know how I can get a ticket.&quot ; So I called him, and I said--he was in the hotel ; I just said, &quot ; Give me Adolph Rupp&#039 ; s room,&quot ; and they gave me Adolph Rupp&#039 ; s room. And he answered the call, and I told him my sad story, and he said, &quot ; Well,&quot ; he says, &quot ; Come on down to my room about four o&#039 ; clock, and I&#039 ; ll see what I can do for you.&quot ; I went down there at four o&#039 ; clock. He comes out in his blue robe, talks to me about Dan Issel, who&#039 ; d hurt his hand, didn&#039 ; t know how effective he&#039 ; d be at playing that, that night, and gave me two tickets next to his wife. So I related the-- CRANE: --now that&#039 ; s a good story-- WEINBERG: --so I--(Crane laughs)--so I related that story to Cal, and he said, &quot ; What a great story!&quot ; And I said, &quot ; Yeah, and I don&#039 ; t expect any less of you.&quot ; (both laugh) CRANE: Did he give you two tickets? No. WEINBERG: He didn&#039 ; t give me any yet, but you have to ask. CRANE: That&#039 ; s true. (Weinberg laughs) Um, clearly you&#039 ; ve worked with, um, lots of the Jewish community for many years, I guess in your divvying out the money. Um, what relationship did, um--if any--did the Federation have with the Jewish Hospital? WEINBERG: Well, we had a very close relationship. There was no legal relationship, um, but, uh, but it felt like there was a, an agency-type relationship. Uh, Jewish Hospital was good to the Federation ; it was good to the entire Jewish community. Um, Hank Wagner was the, uh, the executive there. Uh, whatever he could do--number one, they, they made a nice gift to the Federation every year for the campaign. But that wasn&#039 ; t nearly the extent of what they did. Um, we were on their insurance policy just as if we were Jewish Hospital employees. And I don&#039 ; t mean just the Federation. I meant any Jewish communal worker through the Federation could be on their policy. Um, probably not all legal, because there was no legal relationship between us. But they wanted to do that. Um, so we had synagogue employees that were on that plan. We had all our agency employees that were on that plan. We had our JC--you know, the JCC [Jewish Community Center], the family service, their employees, through the Federation to the hospital, were on their plan. We paid less for our premiums than their employees were paying for their premiums. Our premiums probably didn&#039 ; t go up for 15 years. As medical costs were rising and skyrocketing and other insurance premiums, the hospital subsidized them. They never charged us any more. Probably to the tune of close to a million dollars a year at one time. CRANE: And this is not just for the employees of the Federation but-- WEINBERG: But Jewish community. All employees within the Jewish community, and all of its agencies. CRANE: That&#039 ; s pretty amazing. WEINBERG: It was amazing. Um, they, and they started paring that down after a while. But, uh, but it was up to close to a million dollars. Uh, our executives paid zero. The executives paid nothing for their medical insurance for their families through Jewish Hospital. Um, it was--and they had a, they had a very good plan for their employees. So it was, it was very nice. Not only that, uh, when we brought the Russians in, uh, you know, when they were, uh, were fleeing, uh, uh, Russia, and we brought a bunch of those, uh, immigrants in, they, a, helped find employment for &#039 ; em at the hospital, and b, provided, uh, free medical, uh, uh, services for them. So, uh, they&#039 ; ve always been a very close, uh, it was a very close relationship. It all happened because of Hank Wagner. Uh, he wanted that relationship to remain. CRANE: With the community-- WEINBERG: --with the community, right-- CRANE: --at large. That&#039 ; s, um, quite a interesting piece of information. What do you see as the changes, having worked with the, the larger Jewish community and through the Federation and Jewish Hospital and some of these other, um, organizations that received some of your funding, um, how do you see the changes, um, in the Jewish community over time? WEINBERG: Well, there&#039 ; s been a lot of change. Uh, it used to have a strong affiliation with synagogues. There&#039 ; s not nearly as strong affiliation today as there used to be. (clears throat) CRANE: What do you mean by that? WEINBERG: I mean, I mean there&#039 ; s more non-affiliated Jews with their synagogues, with synagogues. Um, there&#039 ; s not the commitment to the synagogues that there used to be from those who do participate. Um, children growing up--while my children participated a lot at the center, it&#039 ; s not the same--ever since probably there&#039 ; s been--I blame busing. I blame busing for a lot of things, &#039 ; cause I don&#039 ; t think it&#039 ; s accomplished the ends that they&#039 ; d like to have accomplished. Uh, and I was one of the strongest supporters of busing when it occurred, but I just don&#039 ; t think that it, that it&#039 ; s worked out. But I think it&#039 ; s destroyed the neighborhoods, it&#039 ; s destroyed the friendships. Um, you know, they&#039 ; ve got kids that are bused to different schools--it used to be you played with the friends in the neighborhood, you went to school with the friends in the neighborhood, you went to the center with the friends in the neighborhood, uh, and now it&#039 ; s just all scattered. Uh, so I think it&#039 ; s, it&#039 ; s hurt a lot. Um, the club system isn&#039 ; t what it used to be. Uh, again, I blame part of that on the fact that, uh--of busing. Uh, you&#039 ; re not friends with the kids in your neighborhood, you&#039 ; re not friends with the kids at your school, you know, goin&#039 ; to the center. So it&#039 ; s affected that as well. (coughs) Um, so I--you know, volunteerism in general, I don&#039 ; t think is what it used to be. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know if they&#039 ; re burned out, they&#039 ; ve got other things they need to do. They&#039 ; re not as committed. Um, you know, they, uh, they talk about the X generation and the Millennials and, and whatever, and I call it the Me Generation, uh, because it&#039 ; s all about me first. Uh, it&#039 ; s all about I want the biggest television, the nicest car, the biggest house. I want it today, I don&#039 ; t want to wait till tomorrow, and I don&#039 ; t care if somebody else is starving. Um, I think it&#039 ; s, uh, it&#039 ; s sort of sad, but that&#039 ; s, that&#039 ; s the way I see things that have started to happen. Um-- CRANE: So do you feel like--(Weinberg clears throat)--people are less Jewish, and that&#039 ; s why they&#039 ; re not affiliating, uh, with congregations, or they&#039 ; re less into the organized religious part, or, um-- WEINBERG: Uh, I think a little of all, all the above. Um, I don&#039 ; t think their parents have made the commitment, and therefore the children hadn&#039 ; t made as much of a commitment. They--you know--(clears throat)--our parents would--I don&#039 ; t think that the, the parents have made the commitment to their children to get them to Jewish functions and to make sure they associate with their Jewish, uh, uh, friends and, uh, activities. Um, our parents used to make sure that we got to the synagogue, that we got to the Jewish Community Center, maybe even on a daily basis, because that&#039 ; s where the activity was. Um, I think the center has failed in some degree because I think they, uh, had the facilities and the resources, uh, to make it a, as desirable a place as any place outside the center, and haven&#039 ; t, sometimes maybe because of the, the nature of the beast today, with lawsuits and injury and whatever else. Uh, they&#039 ; ve made it more difficult to drive to different events, uh, to sign off for purposes of protecting themselves. Those are--you know, you don&#039 ; t have to do that goin&#039 ; somewhere else. Um, so it&#039 ; s, you know, it&#039 ; s--if you, if you make it harder, they&#039 ; re just not gonna do it. They&#039 ; ll go somewhere where it&#039 ; s easier and more fun. CRANE: What are your most memorable, um, thoughts about your work at the Federation? (pause) In looking back-- WEINBERG: --well-- CRANE: --over the last--what, twenty-something years? WEINBERG: Twenty-plus years. CRANE: Twenty, yeah. WEINBERG: I&#039 ; m still doing some consulting with the feder--with--it&#039 ; s not called the Federation anymore, it&#039 ; s called the Jewish Community of Louisville. CRANE: Oh! WEINBERG: Uh, they merged with, uh, the Jewish Community Center. Uh, that happened in about 2007 or &#039 ; 8. Uh, I was the vice president and CFO of that organization, of the merged organization. Um, they, uh--I think that&#039 ; s one of the, I mean, that&#039 ; s one of the things. I mean, that, that merger was accomplished. It wasn&#039 ; t an easy thing to do, uh, because everybody has their, uh, had their own board, everybody had their own way of doing things, everybody had, uh, their au--you know, their autonomy, where now they didn&#039 ; t. Uh, and it wasn&#039 ; t easy to bring the, the accounting systems together and the culture together. A lot of people looked at the Federation as being on this, quote, &quot ; pedestal.&quot ; Uh, and, uh, and resented it, I think. Uh, so, um-- CRANE: Can you explain that? WEINBERG: Yeah. I, I think, uh, we probably had the, the--the leadership was stronger at the Federation, and the leadership raised the money and allocated it as they chose, uh, through different committees and representations, but it was still the Federation. Uh, and I think people resent that idea. If you ask for, if you ask for two hundred thousand dollars and you get a hundred thousand, there&#039 ; s some resentment. &quot ; Uh, well, what are you doin&#039 ; with that money?&quot ; &quot ; Well, you know, there&#039 ; s other needs.&quot ; &quot ; Well, if the Federation people weren&#039 ; t making so much, then there&#039 ; d be more to allocate.&quot ; And so I think the attempt to bring those organizations together was to certainly reduce some of that overhead, uh, and have more dollars to allocate. But their, the cultures of the two organizations, uh, there was, there was an issue bringing &#039 ; em together. Uh, &#039 ; cause they resented each other at that point, uh. And so, uh--but I think they, you know, with, with time and passa--with passage of time, that, that passes as well. So, uh, I think they&#039 ; re doing much better today than they were when the initial merger occurred. CRANE: Did they do better--are you saying they were better when they were separated? WEINBERG: No, I&#039 ; m not necessarily. I think the, uh, I think just trying to bring everybody together who had different feelings about their organization, it was hard to have people take off their individual hats and put on a community hat. Um, so that was a change. Do I think we were--you know, my personal-- CRANE: --um-hm-- WEINBERG: --my personal opinion--and some people will disagree with this, I&#039 ; m sure--in retrospect, I think there were better things about being separate. Uh, when it merged, it created some hard--some very--it created some, some splits within the community. Those that were Federation supporters, those who were Jewish Community Center supporters, um, felt like they were ignored in, uh, felt like they were ignored. Some of the big givers quit giving, because they didn&#039 ; t agree with the, the way it was merged or what happened with the merger. So they lost significant dollars in pledges. So, while the attempt was to reduce the overhead so there would be more dollars to allocate, the fact was what you saved in dollars there you lost in pledges. Uh, so that didn&#039 ; t work out so well. Uh, and while I think some people resented the fact that the Federation was--appeared to be this, quote, &quot ; elitist&quot ; type of group, I think there&#039 ; s some benefit to that, in retrospect. Uh, I think people want to affiliate with and be a part of that kind of an organization that is somewhat elitist, at least appears to be, uh, elitist. Uh, because they, uh, they want to affiliate with it. They don&#039 ; t mind giving. It draws your leadership--your, your wealthier leadership, anyway--um, together. Um, and I think they lost some of that. CRANE: What was the relationship between the Federation before it merged and the synagogues and temples in Louisville? WEINBERG: Well, the, there was no allocation bein&#039 ; made to the synagogues and temple except for, uh, the Hebrew school. Uh, they did allocate dollars to the temple Hebrew school, because they were not part of this community Hebrew school. The other synagogues belonged to the community Hebrew school. Uh, Temple Shalom, Keneseth, Adath Jeshurun, um, all belonged to the community school. They had about a hundred kids, uh, participating. The temple, the largest congregation, had their own Hebrew school of about a hundred kids. And they were getting no allocation. So, uh, people complained about that, and they started making an allocation on a per-capita basis, uh, to those kids for Jewish education. And, um, other than that, I mean, there was a good working relationship, but no allocations and no agency-type relationship, other than providing the health insurance, uh, through the Federation. CRANE: As far as, uh, things like community calendars or joint events, did they--did individual temples and synagogues do their own thing, or did they all sort of run through the Federation? WEINBERG: Well, it&#039 ; s interesting. The JCC, not the Federation, was keeping a community calendar. Uh, and sometimes it was better than others, and sometimes people participated and sometimes people didn&#039 ; t. Uh, so I would say that, you know, it wasn&#039 ; t as effective as it could&#039 ; ve been or should&#039 ; ve been. Um, and that&#039 ; s, you know, that&#039 ; s where it is today probably as well. CRANE: You&#039 ; ve mentioned Jerry Abramson, um, several times, um, as your friend, but, um, as a mayor, what do you, how do you feel that his being Jewish and being the mayor of Louisville has, um--if at any, what has it been--what impact has it had on the Jewish community or Louisville at large? WEINBERG: Well, I think the Jewish leadership in Louisville has been significant. You know, our, our numbers are not very great. We maybe have about eighty-five hundred out of a million-plus, uh, metro area. But you&#039 ; ve got Jerry Abramson, who was mayor for a number of years. Uh, you&#039 ; ve got John Yarmouth, who&#039 ; s a, uh, um, House representative. Um, so, and, and, so we, you know, we&#039 ; ve been active. The Jewish Hospital has been, you know, has been active. It&#039 ; s been in, at least Jewish in name, if not anything else, but, uh, Jewish in name. They were, you know, at the top of the pote--totem pole with hand surgery and heart surgeries and heart transplants and hand transplants and so I, you know, I think we&#039 ; ve, uh, -----------(??) leadership. Somethin&#039 ; a lot of people don&#039 ; t under--don&#039 ; t know is that the Jewish Community Center, uh, started their orchestra probably back in the 1900s, early 1900s, which ultimately evolved into the Louisville, uh, Orchestra. Uh, the, that was the birthplace of the Louisville Orchestra. CRANE: When did the Jewish Community Center start? WEINBERG: Well, the YMHA was, uh, was the third oldest YMHA, and that was the--the predecessor of the JCC. CRANE: What does YM--Y-- WEINBERG: --Y-M-- CRANE: --M-H-A-- WEINBERG: Young Men Hebrews [sic] Association. CRANE: Ah. WEINBERG: Um, and that, uh--when did that start? The, uh--(pause)--that was in 1890. The YMHA was started in 1890. In 1955 it became the Jewish Community Center on Dutchmans Lane. But the YMHA, um, was--has been around a long time. Uh-- CRANE: And the--did the Federation fund that building? WEINBERG: Did the Federation fund which building? The-- CRANE: --the JCC-- WEINBERG: --JCC building? CRANE: Um-hm. WEINBERG: I think it, uh, to be honest, I don&#039 ; t know. Uh, I think it was just a community drive, uh, that started that. Um-- CRANE: David, what, what was Judaism like? Um, we&#039 ; ve talked about you growing up and your work and what about, um, Judaism in your home as a parent? Um, how was it--how did--did it differ from you growing up? WEINBERG: How did what differ? CRANE: How Judaism in your home with your children, you as a parent, you and Beverly. WEINBERG: Than when I grew up? CRANE: Um-hm. WEINBERG: Ah, more Conservative than Orthodox. Uh, when I was growing up, we were certainly much more Orthodox in my home, and gradually becoming more Conservative with my aunt and uncle. Um, but, uh, but, you know, we-- CRANE: --did you keep a kosher home?-- WEINBERG: Kept a kosher home. Uh, that didn&#039 ; t mean we didn&#039 ; t eat out. Uh, but we did keep a kosher home. Uh, today, uh, most every Friday evening, uh, Scott and his family will come for, uh, Shabbat dinner. Uh, and I&#039 ; ll light the candles, say the Kiddush, say the Motzi. Um, the kids have gotten into a tradition of, uh, we give &#039 ; em a little bit of, uh, silver to put into, uh, a charity box, uh, at the meal, and, uh, once a year we&#039 ; ll distribute that. And so-- CRANE: --that&#039 ; s a nice-- WEINBERG: --you know, uh, so, you know, the holidays, uh, we all go to the synagogue. Um, Scott, again, is very active, uh, has been very active. So, uh, I think we&#039 ; ve--you know, we&#039 ; re not as, not as, uh, Orthodox as we used to be, but we&#039 ; re still Jews. (laughs) CRANE: How did your children feel, um, about their Jewishness in Louisville? Were they, um--do you think they felt any anti-Semitism or anything different than you might have felt? WEINBERG: No, I think they had a, a strong commitment to their Judaism through high school. Um, while they were with me. They, you know, they participated in the clubs. Uh, Scott was the president of, uh, of one of the chapters. Lindsey was, uh, uh, also active in her chapter. Um, I don&#039 ; t think there was, they felt any discrimination in any way. I think they missed out a lot on what we had as kids being within the same neighborhood, the same schools, as much activity at the center as we had. Um, but, um--and I, and I&#039 ; m sorry for that, because I thought that was, uh, some pretty good times. Um, but it is what it is, and-- CRANE: (pause) What is your most vivid memory of Jewish life or Jewish ritual as a child or an adult? Or as a parent? WEINBERG: When I was a child, I think it&#039 ; d be, uh--I mean, one, it would be bar mitzvah. Um, when my bar mitzvah was a big bar mitzvah. I mean, it was--(laughs)--uh, we went at eight o&#039 ; clock in the morning. I did this--the morning service, Shacharit, I did, uh, Haftorah, and I did Musaf, and that went from eight till twelve. Uh, we had--(laughs)--we had sent out invitations to a lot of our friends, some who were not Jewish, and they got there at eight o&#039 ; clock, which Jews don&#039 ; t do, for the most part. Um, and, uh, and there weren&#039 ; t a whole lot of people there, but they were there. And they said, &quot ; My goodness, Jews must have big bladders, because they--(laughs)--have such long service.&quot ; I said, &quot ; You can get up and go to the bathroom if you need!&quot ; But they were in the service. Um, but I had, uh, it was a, you know, they had a big Kiddush afterwards. Uh, we had a big adult party at the Kentucky Hotel. There were ice sculptures, there was serving, um--my dad went up to Chicago and picked out the kosher meat that he wanted to serve. Uh, it was brought out on silver trays all at the same time. I mean, it was a, it was a big bar mitzvah. Uh, people would tell me in the parking lot of Kroger&#039 ; s--some of these ninety-year-old people would say, &quot ; I still remember your bar mitzvah.&quot ; (laughs) And, uh--so, um, you know, I, I remember that. And we had a kids&#039 ; party as well that--not with steak, but with fried chicken, but--(laughs)--uh, but it was nice. Uh, that&#039 ; s a big memory. Uh, the memory of goin&#039 ; to my grandfather&#039 ; s house with all of the family, uh, that would stay there and, uh-- CRANE: You mean Sam Meyers&#039 ; s house. WEINBERG: Sam Meyers&#039 ; s house, that&#039 ; s right. Sam--(laughs)--what I thought was my grandfather&#039 ; s house! Goin&#039 ; to Sam Meyers&#039 ; s house, uh, uh, was--I mean, to see all those people, you, you got to remember, I had, in that family, I had, uh, uh, ten cousins. I had ten first cousins. And so their parents. And those cousins stayed in this little house, overnight. Sometimes for two nights, for Rosh Hashanah. Um, and so it was, uh, interesting. They had a little bathroom downstairs &#039 ; cause they had to build one for my grandmother, just--you went into the cellar from the first--normally from the first floor, but on that landing, on that step landing, they built a small bathroom, so that--(laughs)--she could--didn&#039 ; t have to walk up the steps all the time. So, um--so to--(laughs)--so to go to the basement, then you had to go through the bathroom--(both laugh)--but, uh--you know, she would make--she wouldn&#039 ; t cook on Shabbos or on the yontiff, so it was on a low fire, uh, in the basement, in the stove down there. And so you smelled it through the house all the time. And you had to go through that bathroom to get to, to bring the food up, and, um--you know, those are, those are all good memories. CRANE: And with your kids, what&#039 ; s one of your fondest memories raising your kids Jewish? WEINBERG: Seein&#039 ; what they&#039 ; ve, uh, what they&#039 ; ve continued to do as adults, um, both bein&#039 ; as active as they are, bringing their kids up very Jewish too. So you think you had to do something right or just be lucky. (laughs) CRANE: You probably did something right, David. What has been the role of Israel and Zionism in your activities and as your identity as a Jew? WEINBERG: Ah. That&#039 ; s the homeland. Uh, Federation, again, uh, that was, uh--Federation was there to raise money for Israel. Um, my daughter&#039 ; s, uh, bat mitzvah we had in Israel. Um, my son, uh, went on the March of the Living, uh, which was through the concentration camps with a, a large group through the United States, uh, culminating in a, uh--being in Israel. Uh, so that&#039 ; s meant a lot to, to both of them and to us. Uh, you know, I spend my--at one time, 50 percent of all the dollars we raised went to Israel. Um, during the, uh, you know, during the, the wars, I mean, people, people, uh, stepped forward and contributed, and, uh, we raised money for Israel. CRANE: That&#039 ; s changed, right? WEINBERG: Mm, no. We don&#039 ; t allocate as much on a regular basis, but when there&#039 ; s an emergency, people still step up. CRANE: Looking back, what, if anything, would you change about your relationship with Judaism? WEINBERG: What, if anything, would I change? CRANE: Um-hm. WEINBERG: You know, I, uh, probably wouldn&#039 ; t change a whole lot. Um, I respect those that are more Orthodox than I. Uh, sometimes I think, you know, maybe I should be more religious than I am, but the reality is I wouldn&#039 ; t change. Uh, but I respect those who can do it. CRANE: Is there anything else you&#039 ; d like to share that I haven&#039 ; t asked you about or that we haven&#039 ; t already talked about? WEINBERG: (sighs) Uh, goodness. We&#039 ; ve pretty much talked about most everything. Uh, yeah. (pause) CRANE: Well, David, this has been really fun-- WEINBERG: --it&#039 ; s been-- CRANE: --getting to see this other side of you that, um--(Weinberg laughs)--I wasn&#039 ; t quite as familiar with. And, uh-- WEINBERG: --it&#039 ; s my pleasure. I&#039 ; m glad that, uh-- CRANE: --thank you so much for-- WEINBERG: --you asked me-- CRANE: --for sharing your time and your stories. WEINBERG: Thank you. [End of interview.] All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh423_jk042_weinberg_ohm.xml 2016oh423_jk042_weinberg_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh423_jk042_weinberg_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource David Weinberg, November 10, 2016 Description An account of the resource In this interview, David Weinberg reflects on his involvement in Judaism and the Jewish community throughout his childhood, college years, and adult life. He begins by delving into his family’s background, explaining how his grandparents came to Kentucky and settled in Louisville, where he still lives today. He talks about his father’s role in the community as a kosher butcher, how that carried over into the home, and about his family’s involvement in their synagogue, Keneseth Israel. David discusses his participation at the Jewish Community Center growing up, from attending Hebrew school there to leading youth clubs and youth councils. As the narrative continues, Weinberg recalls times spent at the University of Kentucky, where he was a business student from 1964 to 1968. He talks about his efforts to keep kosher while living on his own; his involvement with Hillel, a Jewish campus organization; and his connections to other Jews living nearby during the time he was at U.K. Weinberg goes on to explain how he met his wife Beverly, his career with General Electric, and how he came to be the CFO of the Jewish Community Federation of Louisville (now the Jewish Community of Louisville). As the interview closes, interviewer Janice Crane asks Weinberg to consider his Jewish identity and its impact on his children’s and grandchildren’s faiths. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016oh423_jk042 Subject The topic of the resource Genealogy Jewish businesspeople Families. Religion University of Kentucky College students--Social conditions College students--Religious life Jews--Identity. Louisville (Ky.) Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/570ba1d2ebaf08ed31dc0fc1649f138f.jpg f7e5d68e2d2d385aa794822ac61b91c7 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Janice Crane Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mark Bronner Interview Keyword Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. Lexington (Ky.). Immigrants--Kentucky University of Louisville Crohn's Disease Indiana University Jewish businesspeople Family-owned business enterprises. Health Medical care OHMS Object Text 5.2 2016oh422_jk041 Interview with Mark Bronner, November 10, 2016 2016oh422_jk041 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Genealogy Holidays--Kentucky Religion Families. Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Louisville (Ky.) Childhood Education--Kentucky--Louisville College students--Religious life College students--Social conditions Jews--Identity. Medical education Physicians--Kentucky Hospitals--Administration Hospitals--Kentucky Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. Lexington (Ky.). Immigrants--Kentucky University of Louisville Crohn's Disease Indiana University Jewish businesspeople Family-owned business enterprises. Health Medical care Mark Bronner Janice Crane 1:|13(12)|45(8)|77(8)|94(11)|112(6)|126(4)|153(2)|181(6)|195(8)|219(1)|240(9)|252(7)|271(8)|287(13)|308(15)|327(11)|347(12)|359(10)|378(8)|397(4)|409(9)|432(13)|454(13)|471(1)|485(5)|511(5)|534(12)|555(2)|567(8)|587(11)|606(5)|623(6)|645(8)|661(6)|670(5)|680(12)|691(5)|712(3)|727(5)|740(4)|753(8)|767(10)|785(15)|797(2)|811(3)|824(1)|839(12)|858(10)|876(12)|892(13)|913(6)|931(3)|949(12)|963(6)|974(6)|987(8)|1006(5)|1035(6)|1058(7)|1087(6)|1100(3)|1115(3)|1129(1)|1140(2)|1160(5)|1179(5)|1193(15)|1205(8)|1218(1)|1233(14)|1249(3)|1275(4)|1286(12)|1304(12)|1317(4)|1330(3)|1345(12)|1356(11)|1371(6)|1385(6)|1397(13)|1410(9)|1433(10)|1449(1)|1462(11)|1478(3)|1489(15)|1507(7)|1524(6)|1539(7)|1553(12) 0 Vimeo video &lt ; iframe allowFullScreen frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; height=&quot ; 564&quot ; mozallowfullscreen src=&quot ; https://player.vimeo.com/video/253332984&quot ; webkitAllowFullScreen width=&quot ; 640&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 1 Introduction, background, and family history Okay. For official purposes, today is November 10th, 2016, and my name is Janice Crane, and I’m part of the interviewing team for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, funded by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. Dr. Mark Bronner is a long-time resident of Louisville, Kentucky and is a practicing physician. He was born in 1953 at the Louisville Baptist Hospital (which no longer exists) to Robert and Betty Levy Bronner. Robert Bronner worked in real estate while Betty Bronner was a housewife. Mark Bronner married his first wife Anne Banks in 1976, who was born in Louisville. They had a few children together. Bronner has stepchildren from later marrying Susan Sims who was born in Kentucky but also spent time in Indiana. 1953 ; Anne Banks ; Baby ; Beth Bronner ; Betty Levy Bronner ; Children ; Family ; Fathers ; Jewish ; Kentucky ; Louisville Baptist Hospital ; Machatunim ; Mark Bronner ; Physicians ; Real estate ; Robert Bronner ; Stepchildren ; Susan Sims Families. ; Genealogy ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) 164 Family immigrating from Russia And since I know that your maternal grandfather was not only a link between the Jews of Lexington and Louisville... Bronner’s maternal grandfather, Nat Levy, originally immigrated from Russia in his teens with his family. Bronner doesn’t know exactly where in Russia he immigrated from but he states that it’s in the “bread basket area.” According to Bronner, Nat shared stories that he acted as a rebel during the Bolshevik Revolution. His grandfather, Nat, and his family supposedly fled Russia to escape soldiers, and they accidentally changed their name from “Vershovsky” to “Levy” when entering the U.S. and settling in Louisville. Nat Levy then married Irma Wolf. Bolshevik Revolution ; Family names ; Grandfathers ; Irma Wolf ; Levy family ; Maternal grandfathers ; Nat Levy ; Rebels ; Russia ; Soldiers ; Vershovsky family Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants--Kentucky ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) https://www.britannica.com/event/Russian-Revolution-of-1917 Link provides more background information on the Bolshevik Revolution. 433 Paternal grandparents We are also going to talk some about your paternal grandparents and their Louisville connections. Bronner’s paternal grandparents, Marvin and Hannah, were originally from New York. They lived in Louisville for some time but then permanently settled in Miami, Florida for Marvin’s real estate business. Bronner does not know much about Marvin because he died when Bronner’s father, Robert, was in his teens. Hannah was a housewife who was very social. Bronner explains that he does not know much about his paternal grandparents as his father, Robert, did not share many stories. Bronner family ; Florida ; Hannah Bronner ; Housewives ; Marvin Bronner ; New York ; Paternal grandparents ; Real estate ; Robert Bronner Families. ; Genealogy ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Miami (Fla.) 25.76, -80.19 17 Miami (Fla.) http://floridahistory.org/landboom.htm Link provides information on real estate in Miami, Florida in the 1920s. 568 Bronner's siblings, children, and grandchildren I know that you have two siblings. Uh, what are their names and ages relative to you? Bronner describes his siblings, their ages, and occupations. He talks about his own children and the grandchild he is expecting soon. Barbara Bronner ; Beth ; Children ; Family ; Grandchildren ; Granddaughters ; Janice Crane ; John Wilhoit ; Johnathon Bronner ; Mark Bronner ; Meredith ; Real estate ; Social work ; Step-children ; Steve Bronner ; Susan Wilhoit Families. ; Genealogy 17 767 Family arriving in Louisville / family real estate business Let’s talk some about how your family ended up in Louisville. Bronner’s father, Robert, was born in Miami Beach, Florida, and Bronner’s mother was born in Louisville. They were married in 1951, and moved to Louisville because of job opportunities. Robert went to work for Nat Levy (Mark Bronner’s grandfather and Betty Levy’s father) in real estate. Bronner does not remember much about the business, but it was mostly managing and selling real estate. The business was focused around small properties and some commercial sites such as Preston Highway and Glenview Shopping Center. Bronner’s father started building subdivisions in Louisville when his father got involved in the family business. Some subdivisions include: Blue Lick, Dundee Estates, and houses on Dale Hollow Lake. Bronner’s brother, Steve, got involved in the business after Steve graduated, and the business modernized over time. 1951 ; Betty Bronner ; Blue Lick ; Commercial real estate ; Dale Hollow Lake ; Dundee Estates ; Glenview Shopping Center ; Job opportunities ; Mark Bronner ; Miami Beach (Fla.) ; Nat Levy ; Preston Highway ; Real estate ; Robert Bronner ; Steve Bronner ; Subdivisions Families. ; Family-owned business enterprises. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.)--Buildings, structures, etc. 38.29, -85.63 17 Glenview Pointe Shopping Center, Louisville (Ky.) 1175 Grandfather and mother How old were you when your da--when your grandfather died? Nat Levy, Bronner’s grandfather, passed away in early July 1980. Bronner remembers Nat being a fair, big guy that would support the losing person or team in a situation. Levy spent time watching basketball games and riding horses. When Steve and Mark Bronner were growing up, Levy would take them to Miles Park to ride horses. He was also very involved in real estate. Betty Jane Bronner, previously Betty Levy before marriage, was Nat’s daughter and Mark’s mother. Her nickname became “Gigi” after Mark Bronner’s son nicknamed her. She took care of raising the family and participated in charity work through the JCC (Jewish Community Center). Betty Jane Bronner ; Betty Levy ; Bronner family ; Charity ; Family ; Gigi ; Grandfathers ; Horses ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; July, 1980 ; Levy family ; Miles Park ; Nat Levy ; Real estate ; Steve Bronner Families. ; Genealogy ; Volunteers 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) 1453 Family stories--Chicken train, Al Capone, Bronner family You know, one of my favorite Jewish Lexington stories is about the three Hyman Levys, uh, that once lived there. The Bronner family has a few interesting stories concerning the three Lexington Hyman Levys. The three Hymans were Little Hyman, Shoe Hyman, and Chicken Hyman. Chicken Hyman is Mark Bronner’s great-grandfather. Chicken Hyman got his name as he rode a train full of chickens to a market in Chicago. Crane restates that Levy was not Bronner’s mother’s original name. It was Vershovsky, but it was accidentally changed by Nat as he was entering the U.S. Nat heard the individual in front of him say &quot ; Vershovsky&quot ; when entering the U.S., so Nat thought Vershovsky was the password to enter the country. As a result, Nat's last name accidentally got changed. Mark Bronner’s father also explained that Robert, Mark's father, had a connection to Al Capone. The story was that Robert and all of his brothers would get on a boat to go to the Biscayne Island, on Venetian Causeway, that Al Capone and his son lived on every once in a while. Al Capone ; Bronner family ; Chicago (Ill.) ; Chicken Hyman ; Family ; Fathers ; Jewish ; Levy ; Little Hyman ; Nat Levy ; Shoe Hyman ; Stories ; Three Hyman Levys ; Trains ; Vershovsky Families. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Lexington (Ky.). 25.790556, -80.165 17 Venetian Causeway, where Al Capone lived. https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/catalog/xt7qnk36431j Link provides access to Erle Levy's oral history interview where he explains his version of the Chicken Hyman story. 1748 Other Bronner family members I’ve learned from other interviews that before your father moved to Louisville, there were other Bronner family members that were living here. Before Mark Bronner’s father moved to Louisville, there were other Bronner family members who were living in Louisville. Augusta Fox Bronner is one of these members. Augusta lived from 1881 to 1966 and is the daughter of Hannah Fox and Gustav Bronner. Augusta was a clinical psychologist who specialized in juvenile delinquency. She taught at a Normal School for women in Louisville and taught at Yale. She is Mark Bronner’s aunt, but Bronner has no memory of her. 1881 ; 1966 ; Augusta Fox Bronner ; Aunts ; Bronner family ; Clinical psychologists ; Family ; Gustav Bronner ; Hannah Fox ; Juvenile delinquency ; Normal School ; Yale University Families. ; Genealogy ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.feministvoices.com/augusta-fox-bronner/ Link provides a short biography of Augusta Fox Bronner 1893 Dr. Herbert Bronner--Medical specialties And what about Dr. Herbert Bronner? Dr. Herbert Bronner is another Bronner in Kentucky. He was the staff president at the Louisville Jewish Hospital at one point in time. Mark Bronner knows that he was an important figure of the medical community at one time, but does not know many details. Dr. Herbert Bronner specialized in OB when specialization was still developing as most physicians were family practitioners. Bronner family ; Doctors ; Dr. Herbert Bronner ; Family practitioners ; Jewish Hospital ; Medical community ; Obstetrician ; Specialization ; Staff presidents Families. ; Genealogy ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Physicians 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) 2012 Mark Bronner's Jewish childhood Okay. Your childhood. What was Judaism like in your family growing up? Bronner states that he grew up in a Reform Jewish household, and he attended Brit Shalom. Brit Shalom no longer exists as it merged with Temple Adath Israel and became a Reform synagogue. Bronner explains that this synagogue, of Brit Shalom and Adath Israel congregations, then split again to become Temple Shalom. He attended the temple during the high holidays, for Sunday school, and on certain Jewish holidays. Bronner describes his mother being the more religious parent whereas his father was more relaxed and Reform. However, Bronner believes that his father was more religious than he let on to be. From his father, Bronner gained a better understanding of his Jewish identity. Bronner also explains that for holidays the family got together and held family events. Brit Shalom ; Bronner family ; Family ; Fathers ; High holidays ; Jewish ; Jewish holidays ; Jewish identity ; Mothers ; Reform Judaism ; Religious ; Sunday school ; Synagogues ; Temple Shalom ; Temples Childhood ; Families. ; Holidays--Kentucky ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.14, -85.45 17 Brit Shalom (now The Temple) in Louisville (Ky.) http://www.thetemplelouky.org/our-history Link provides information on the history of how Brit Shalom changed over the years. 2345 Family's relationship to Judaism How were your parents’, uh, relationship to Judaism different than their parents’ relationship to Judaism? Bronner’s father had Jewish unique training as he was recruited and went to a Catholic school for athletics. Bronner’s uncles have had &quot ; Jewish training.&quot ; Bronner’s maternal grandmother was more liberal than his maternal grandfather. His grandfather was more religious as he went to a Reform temple. Bronner doesn’t discuss his mother. Bronner, Steve (his brother), and Barbara (his sister) participated in the Temple, but Barbara was not eligible to be bat mitzvahed. Bronner explains that as a Jewish kid, you just join a Jewish club that gives you more exposure to the culture and other Jewish kids. Athletics ; Barbara Bronner ; Bat mitzvahs ; Bronner family ; Catholic schools ; Fathers ; Grandfathers ; Grandmothers ; Jewish ; Jewish clubs ; Maternal ; Reform Judaism ; Religious ; Steve Bronner ; Temples ; Training ; Uncles ; Unique training Childhood ; Families. ; Holidays--Kentucky ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.jewfaq.org/barmitz.htm Link gives information on Bat Mitzvah (for girls) and Bar Mitzvah (for boys). 2497 Jewish clubs and community in 1960s Louisville What were the clubs like? Bronner discusses the Jewish clubs of the Jewish Community Center and the Jewish community while he was growing up. He explains that some clubs were explicitly religious where others were more subtly religious. Bronner gravitated towards the more popular club, but states that he doesn’t know if he would join it again because he knows more about his Jewish culture today. He describes some clubs being driven by athletics and then a social, religious component. Bronner was in a club called “Pi Tau Pi.” He explains that certain clubs invited specific individuals to join their club. Bronner explains that being in a club kept him out of trouble as it took up his time. He also explains that he made some good friends through the clubs he was involved in, but they grew up and moved away. Bronner also explains that he grew up in a neighborhood with a strong Jewish population, but there was a good mix of other cultures and religions, so there weren’t any negative reactions towards Judaism. Athletics ; Fraternities ; Friends ; Jewish clubs ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish population ; Neighborhoods ; Pi Tau Pi ; Religious ; Socializing Childhood ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.23, -85.65 17 Louisville Jewish Community Center http://collections.americanjewisharchives.org/ms/ms0497/ms0497.html Link provides archive records of the Pi Tau Pi fraternity that Bronner was involved with. Today, the fraternity no longer exists. 2931 Bronner's early education What about schools when you were a child, and other Jewish kids in the schools that you went to? Which schools did you go to? Bronner attended Belknap Elementary School which went through sixth grade, and attended Highland Junior High which was seventh, eighth, and ninth grade. Then he attended Atherton High School. All the schools he attended had a mix of kids from different backgrounds, religions, and cultures, but Bronner did have a lot of Jewish friends growing up. He states that Jewish clubs through the JCC have changed in that they still existed as Bronner’s kids were growing up, but they weren’t a priority. Additionally, when Bronner was in high school, social, non-religious clubs did not exist. Atherton High School ; Belknap Elementary School ; Eighth grade ; Highland Junior High School ; Jewish clubs ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Kids ; Ninth grade ; Seventh grade ; Sixth grade ; Socializing Childhood ; Education--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.12, -85.41 17 Atherton High School, Louisville (Ky.) 3039 College experience at Indiana University (IU) and University of Louisville (U of L) So where did you go to college? Bronner describes his college experience. He entered college as a science major on a pre-med track. He attended Indiana University (IU) in 1971, but dropped out after three years because he became ill with Crohn's Disease and had to be hospitalized. He went through a process of taking a few courses for a semester, getting sick and being hospitalized. Then he temporarily got better and went back for a semester and got sick again. Ultimately, after finally getting better, Bronner attended and graduated from the University of Louisville (U of L). He was originally supposed to graduate in 1975, but because of his illness, he graduated in 1976. While in college at IU, he joined the Zeta Beta Tau Jewish fraternity during his second semester and lived in the house. He described the fraternity as a fun place, that was subtly religious, more social, and was full of bright guys. There were many people that were in the fraternity that weren’t Jewish. Bronner’s first roommate at ZBT was Jewish, and he taught Bronner a lot about Hillel and about Judaism. Bronner hears about the fraternity members and sees them on social media every once in a while. Bronner was not involved in Hillel in college, although he was invited multiple times. However, Bronner’s social life at IU consisted of partying, hanging out with his friends, and dating. He states that he had a great social life and that IU is a great place to attend. Both Bronner’s brother and sister attended and graduated from IU. After leaving IU, Bronner graduated from U of L and attended medical school. 1971 ; 1975 ; 1976 ; Brothers ; Colleges ; Fraternities ; Graduated ; Hillel ; Hospitalized ; Illness ; Indiana University (IU) ; Jewish ; Pre-med ; Religious ; Science ; Semesters ; Sickness ; Sisters ; Social life ; University of Louisville (U of L) ; Zeta Beta Tau (ZBT) College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Greek letter societies. ; Jews--Identity. ; Religion ; Universities and colleges. 39.18, -86.51 17 Indiana University http://www.zbt.org/ Link provides more information about the Jewish fraternity, Zeta Beta Tau. 3430 Medical school and residency And how was that transition? Bronner explains his medical school and residency life. After graduating from the University of Louisville, Bronner got married and then attended medical school at the University of South Carolina. While in medical school, Bronner did have a few close Jewish friends. He states that he didn’t seek these friends, that it just randomly happened. He’s still friends with a couple of these people. There were Jewish medical staff at the University, and they didn’t show any favoritism towards certain groups. After graduating from medical school in 1980, he stayed in South Carolina for his internship, residency, and fellowship. Bronner states that he stayed in South Carolina for an additional five years. 1980 ; Fellowship ; Friends ; Internships ; Jewish ; Married ; Medical schools ; Medical staff ; Medical University of South Carolina ; Residency ; University of Louisville College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Jews--Identity. ; Medical education ; Physicians ; Religion ; Universities and colleges. 32.78, -79.95 17 Medical University of South Carolina http://academicdepartments.musc.edu/musc/ Link directs to a website providing more information on the Medical University of South Carolina. 3574 Raising a Jewish family in 1980s Louisville How old were your children when you moved back to Louisville? I know they were--were they all born in South Carolina? Bronner discusses his children. All of his children were born in South Carolina, and then he and his family moved back to Louisville. He states that while his children were growing up, the whole family got together for the holidays. Bronner and his children attend Temple Shalom where Bronner’s mother was going because it was a family affair. Bronner’s family was his biggest support when he was raising his kids Jewish. Bronner explains that his children attended Keneseth Israel Preschool, a “Conservadox” school, and made a stronger connection to Judaism. The JCC had declined some at this time, so his children weren’t that involved in clubs. Bronner discusses that his children made a few lifelong friends while attending school. Clubs ; Family ; Friends ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Kids ; Schools ; South Carolina ; Temple Shalom (Louisville, synagogue) ; Temples Childhood ; Education--Kentucky--Louisville ; Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) 3962 Changes in Louisville's Jewish community You know, you have a long history with the Louisville Jewish community. Um, what are some of your thoughts on how the Jewish community has changed over your lifetime? Bronner discusses changes that he’s seen in the Jewish community. He explains that children have moved farther away from the rest of their family, and intermarriage became more popular. He also states that Louisville’s Jewish mayor, Jerry Abramson, was involved in both the Jewish and non-Jewish community. The Louisville community had changed in the sense that there was less antisemitism towards Jews. Bronner states that he considers himself Jewish-American. He also further explains the deceitful actions that Israel of Zionism committed as he was growing up. Anti-Semitism ; Community ; Intermarriage ; Israel of Zionism ; Jerry Abramson ; Jewish ; Jewish-American ; Mayors Discrimination. ; Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.jcpa.org/dje/articles2/develjewcomm.htm This link directs user to an article that explains a few changes in Jewish communities in North America. 4261 Bronner’s medical career Let’s talk about your work as a physician. What area of medicine is your specialty? Bronner discusses his medical career. He specializes in gastroenterology, and started private practice in 1985. At one point, he was the Director of the Kentucky chapter of the Crohn’s and Colitis Foundation of America. Bronner shares the story of his brother getting diagnosed with Crohn’s Disease and his own story of getting Crohn’s Disease. Bronner explains that he wanted to find a charity that he had a personal connection to, and therefore he helped start a new Kentucky chapter of the Gastrointestinal Research Foundation that is based in Chicago. However, the Kentucky chapter closed due to too many reorganizations. 1985 ; Brothers ; Chicago (Ill.) ; Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America ; Crohn's Disease ; Diagnosed ; Directors ; Doctors ; Gastroenterology ; Gastrointestinal Research Foundation ; Kentucky chapter ; Medical ; Private practice Families. ; Health ; Medical care ; Physicians 41.89, -87.63 17 Gastrointestinal Research Foundation based in Chicago (Ill.) http://www.crohnscolitisfoundation.org/about/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Link provides information about the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America. 4561 Louisville Jewish Hospital I read an article online that stated that the Louisville Jewish Hospital was established in 1903, in part to provide facilities for Jewish doctors who were denied staff privileges elsewhere, and whose patients might prefer treatment in a Jewish environment. Bronner discusses the Louisville Jewish Hospital. Bronner states that he was not involved in the original Jewish Hospital. He spent the majority of his career working at the newer Jewish Hospital. He explains how the hospital merged with the University of Louisville but failed and ultimately changed into KentuckyOne Hospital. He explains how some of his patients at the Jewish Hospital were not treated by him at some points, and they were treated by other physicians. This situation occurred to other physicians at the hospital, and was one of the reasons that the hospital shut down. He discusses the changes that caused the hospital reputation to worsen, such as better doctors going elsewhere. Careers ; Jewish Hospital ; KentuckyOne ; Patients ; University of Louisville Families. ; Health ; Hospitals--Administration ; Hospitals--Kentucky ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Medical care ; Physicians ; Physicians--Kentucky 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.kentuckyonehealth.org/jewish-hospital Link takes user to KentuckyOne Hospital and provides brief information about the hospital. 4964 Practicing as a Jewish physician And so, what hospital do you practice out of, or do you utilize? Bronner explains that he practices out of Norton Audubon Hospital. He explains that he didn’t really have a problem practicing as a Jewish physician. He didn’t experience any unfriendly relationships, and he states that it might be due to his specialty because there weren’t very many gastroenterologists. He explains that he has practiced at Jewish hospitals, Catholic hospitals, and non-sectarian hospitals. Bronner explains that being Jewish influenced him to work at a Jewish hospital, but his religion hasn’t influenced him to become a doctor ; he just wants to help people get better. Catholic ; Doctors ; Gastroenterology ; Hospitals ; Jewish ; Jewish physicians ; Non-sectarian ; Norton Audubon Hospital ; Physician ; Relationships ; Specialty Health ; Hospitals--Administration ; Hospitals--Kentucky ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Medical care ; Physicians--Kentucky ; Religion 38.22, -85.72 17 Norton Audubon Hospital 5313 Self-reflection and Jewish identity We talked a lot about different things, but I want to make sure that I’ve given you every opportunity to share the stories that you hold dear. Looking back, Judaism influenced Mark Bronner to work in Jewish Hospital when he first started practicing as a physician. He wishes he joined multiple Jewish clubs instead of just one in order to gain more exposure to Judaism. He thinks his parents should have pushed him to get more involved in certain parts of Judaism. He wishes he had a bar mitzvah--not the party, but the religious aspect. Bat mitzvahs ; Clubs ; Jewish ; Jewish Hospital ; Judaism ; Parents ; Physicians ; Religious Childhood ; Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.328, -85.764 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1912609/jewish/Bar-Mitzvah-101.htm Link provides an overview about bar mitzvahs. interview Mark Bronner discusses in detail his family genealogy, from his ancestors in Russia who immigrated to the U.S. and settled in Louisville, to later members of his family who held prominent positions in Louisville. He talks about his own childhood in Louisville and how it affected his Jewish identity. He talks about his education, his participation in Jewish clubs and social activities, and how the community has changed since his childhood. He discusses his college experience, medical school, his work as a gastroenterologist, and Louisville Jewish Hospital. CRANE: Okay. For official purposes, today is November 10, 2016, and my name is Janice Crane, and I&#039 ; m part of the interviewing team for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, funded by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. I&#039 ; m honored and delighted to be here today with Dr. Mark Bronner, a long-time resident of Louisville, a practicing physician, and someone who has a strong family presence in Kentucky, linking Jews in Lexington with Jews in Louisville. Although I&#039 ; ve only known Mark for four years, I have enjoyed every minute I have spent with him. We are family. We are machatunim. He is the father of my wonderful daughter-in-law, Beth, and soon, God willing, we will share the role of grandparents to a sweet baby girl. I look forward to hearing the personal stories he has to share, and I&#039 ; m eager to learn more about his family history, and his personal and professional life in Louisville as a Jewish physician. So let&#039 ; s begin by establishing some general information. What was your full name at birth? BRONNER: Mark Howard Bronner. CRANE: When and where were you born? BRONNER: Louisville, Baptist Hospital--the old Baptist hospital which does not exist anymore. CRANE: And when? BRONNER: 1953. CRANE: And what is your wife&#039 ; s full name, and where was she born? BRONNER: My wife is--is--it depends on which middle name we&#039 ; re using. Susan--well, it&#039 ; s Susan Sims Bronner is, uh, I guess, what she uses. CRANE: Sims? BRONNER: Sims, uh-huh, which is her maiden name, and she was born in, uh, Kentucky, even though she lived most of her life in Indiana, before moving back to Kentucky. CRANE: Okay. I know that you were married prior to Susan, to a woman who is the mother of your children, one of which, as I have already said, is my daughter-in-law. What is your first wife&#039 ; s name, and where was she born? BRONNER: Uh, Anne Banks, and she was born in Louisville. CRANE: I know that neither of your parents are alive, but for the record, and just because they are clearly a large part of your history and your stories, what are their names, and what where they--where were they born? BRONNER: My mom was, uh, Betty Jane, or Betty Levy Bronner. My dad--Levy being her maiden name--my dad was born, uh, as Bob Bronner, no middle name, and he was born in Miami Beach. CRANE: Was he a Bob or a Robert? BRONNER: He was Robert, but everyone called him Bob. CRANE: Okay, and he was born in? BRONNER: Miami Beach--one of the--one of the few. CRANE: What were your parents&#039 ; occupations? BRONNER: My--my mom was a housewife, and my dad was in real estate. CRANE: And did your mother work outside the home at all, or help in the business? BRONNER: She-- CRANE: And did your mother work outside the home at all, or help in the business? BRONNER: She--she did not. CRANE: Okay. And since I know that your maternal grandfather was not only a link between the Jews of Lexington and Louisville, but owned and operated, to some degree, the family business before your dad was part of it, what was his name and where was he from? BRONNER: His name is Nat Levy, and he, um--his family originally emigrated from Russia. He came here when he was in his teens, and, uh--they, uh--most of the family ended up in Lexington, and uh so where he&#039 ; s from is, I guess, Russia. CRANE: Do you know where in Russia? BRONNER: We&#039 ; ve heard different stories as far as exactly where they&#039 ; re from, so I couldn&#039 ; t tell you, but--I could not tell you for sure. CRANE: What are the possible choices there? BRONNER: I think he was, uh from the--more of the, uh--what&#039 ; s the bread basket area. Um, I&#039 ; m not sure if, uh--honestly, we&#039 ; ve heard so many different stories, uh, about the location, and, um, he really didn&#039 ; t want to talk about it much. He would tell stories about what he did during the Bolshevik revolution, which is why they fled from Russia, meaning, he was a rebel, he would blow up bridges, and, they would have to go in--yeah, they would have to go steal chickens so they had some food. Uh, he told some really, some interesting stories, but he wouldn&#039 ; t really talk much about where they were from. CRANE: What were some of the stories? BRONNER: Yeah--they would go and they would blow up bridges, um-- CRANE: --who&#039 ; s they?-- BRONNER: He and his brothers. They would--they would--and other people, in I guess what would be an underground, uh, but they would go out in the morning, and they would--somebody would give them something to blow something up, and they had a target, and they would go and they&#039 ; d blow it up. And, uh, they didn&#039 ; t directly kill people. They were--they were just basically trying to slow people down, and um, there was a story--an interesting story, his sister, who, um, who, uh, apparently was a very pretty girl, and uh, some--the family was very wealthy in Russia, and, uh, there were some soldiers who came--I&#039 ; m not sure exactly why, but they came and they were going to take the family away, and she came out, and--and basically talked them into coming back later in the day, and she said, &quot ; If you would come back later, you can all have me.&quot ; And so she talked them into leaving and coming back later, which led to the family packing everything up that they could take in their hand, and they left, and that was the beginning of their emigration to the United States. So, and my--my-- great-grandfather got passage on a fishing boat, and--which was carrying some dead bodies, uh, across--yeah, I mean, it was bad times. He actually hid out underneath some dead bodies while he--while he got out of Russia. Then he made passage to the US and into Ellis Island, and the name--the family name was Vershvovsky-- CRANE: Would you spell that? Or, give it your best shot. BRONNER: It&#039 ; s V-h-e-r-s-h-v-e-s-s-k-y, uh, or V-e-r-s--if I had it in writ--I have it in writing somewhere, but, are you going to make me write it down? I&#039 ; ll find it for you, how&#039 ; s that? CRANE: Okay. BRONNER: But the family name was Vershvovsky, and when my great-grandfather got to Ellis Island, and spoke not a lick of English, and they went apparently through a line, and they were asking them for their names, and the fellow in front of them said Levy. He thought it was the password to get into the country, so when they asked him his name, he didn&#039 ; t understand anything, but he thought he now knew the password, so he said Levy, and that became the family name. So, that&#039 ; s how they became Levys, and then when he got established, then he got the rest of the family there. CRANE: That&#039 ; s a great story. Was he the only one on the boat? BRONNER: Uh--that I don&#039 ; t know. I never heard that part of the story. He was the only one alive, as far as I know, yeah, aside from the people who were--who were--who were--who were sailing the boat. CRANE: Okay. So, what was his wife&#039 ; s name, and where was she from? BRONNER: You&#039 ; re asking--you&#039 ; re asking me things--I never knew her. You may know--know more than I do, as a historian. CRANE: Uh Nat&#039 ; s wife. BRONNER: Oh, Nat&#039 ; s wife--oh, that--oh, you see, I thought you were going back another generation. CRANE: No, no. BRONNER: Um, Nat&#039 ; s wife was Irma, Irma Wolf, and she was, uh--she was from the Louisville area. CRANE: She was born here in Louisville? BRONNER: I think she was born here in Louisville. CRANE: Okay. We are also going to talk some about your paternal grandparents and their Louisville connections, so for the record, what were their names and where were they from? BRONNER: Gosh. So, they--they originally were from New York, and, uh, they, uh--they uh --the one that we know the least about was Marvin, and, um, and he was, uh--I think he originally was from New York. They spent time here in Louisville. They ultimately moved to Miami, where he was in business for a number of years. CRANE: Marvin was your grandfather? BRONNER: Was my--was my--was my-- CRANE: --great-- BRONNER: Was my--was my paternal grandfather, who I never knew, because he passed away when my father was in his early teens, twelve or thirteen, and then his wife was Hannah, and, uh, I obviously never met her, because she--she--my mom knew her, so I&#039 ; m not sure how old she was when she passed away, but I--but I-- never knew any grandparents on that side of the family. CRANE: Do you know what their occupations were? BRONNER: I think,uh, my grandmother on that side, uh, was a--was a -- housewife. I heard stories about her doing a lot of entertaining. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know if that was business related, or just that she was--uh, that she was social. And, my grandfather on that side was in several businesses. He was in the furniture business, and, uh, they apparently had the biggest furniture business in, uh, Miami, because Miami Beach was just a place you went to live so you didn&#039 ; t have to be in Miami, and, uh he, uh--he was also in the real estate business, which I didn&#039 ; t know until a couple of years ago, but he built a couple of things, and, um, and a number of other businesses along the way. CRANE: Did your father talk much about them? BRONNER: Very little. It was hard to get a story. My mom would tell us some stories, but, um, when I attempted to hear stories about my grandfather, at least, on that side, he was not--he would clam up. So, I know the little bit I&#039 ; ve heard, but it&#039 ; s very little, and nothing from him. CRANE: I know that you have two siblings. Uh, what are their names and ages relative to you? BRONNER: I have, uh, Steven Robert Bronner, and he&#039 ; s two years younger. I have, uh, Hannah Barbara Bronner, and she goes by Barbara, and she&#039 ; s seven years younger, although I tell everybody she&#039 ; s older. She&#039 ; s not happy-- CRANE: --I&#039 ; m sure she loves that one. BRONNER: Yeah, she&#039 ; s not happy with me when I do that. CRANE: (laughs) And what are their occupations? BRONNER: My, um, my sister has a degree in social work, although she&#039 ; s not, uh--she took some time off to raise her family, so she&#039 ; s not been working for a couple of years. My brother is in real estate. He went into business with my father. CRANE: And what are the names and ages of your children, your stepchildren, and your grandchildren-- BRONNER: --oh, you&#039 ; re going to be-- CRANE: --and this is a test. BRONNER: Yeah, I&#039 ; m sure. CRANE: Okay. BRONNER: So, my, uh--the oldest is John Wilhoit, who&#039 ; s my stepson, and he&#039 ; s, uh, thirty-six. Uh, my son Jonathan Bronner is about nine months younger. Uh, we then go down to Susan Wilhoit, my stepdaughter, who--they&#039 ; re step--they&#039 ; re stepchildren, so as long as I get the oldest one, I&#039 ; m good. Um, and so, Susan is, uh, thirty-five, thirty-four, almost thirty--we&#039 ; re getting near March, so she&#039 ; ll be thirty-five then. And, uh, Meredith is a year younger, thirty-three. She&#039 ; s the one I can use, because I know she&#039 ; s exactly thirty years younger than I am. And then Beth is, uh, thirty-one--thirty-one, thirty-two. Yeah, uh, he&#039 ; s--Beth is a September baby, so sometime thirty-one, sometime thirty-two. September, she got to be thirty-two. Did I get them all? I think I got them all. CRANE: How about the grandchildren? BRONNER: The grandchildren. Well, there&#039 ; s seven grandchildren, and I have help over here with ages. Maya is eleven going on fifteen, good, and that&#039 ; s Maya Wilhoit, and then Isaac is fifteen going on really being nine? Well, nine going on twenty, I think, now. And then, uh, so those are the two oldest, and, uh, then if we get to Jonathan&#039 ; s children, we have Arianna, who is--God, this is really bad, you didn&#039 ; t prepare me for ages. Ari is five--yeah, Susan&#039 ; s going, &quot ; Five, yeah.&quot ; Five going on fourteen. Her little brother is Levy, who is several years younger. He&#039 ; s three and a half, or so. And then we have Meredith and David&#039 ; s children. We have precocious Violet who&#039 ; s three, going on twenty-one, and then we have her younger sister, who is under six months, going on, gosh, I don&#039 ; t know--she&#039 ; s a handful. And then we have, uh, the almost, uh, uh--to arrive, youngest baby of Beth&#039 ; s, whose name I can&#039 ; t get out yet. CRANE: That&#039 ; s okay. You did a good job there, Mark. BRONNER: Well, thank you. (laughs) Usually I have to look at it in writing, because there&#039 ; s so many. CRANE: And they&#039 ; re all darling. BRONNER: They are. CRANE: Let&#039 ; s talk some about how your family ended up in Louisville. I&#039 ; ve listened to several previously recorded interviews of your mother and your father done into connection with the Louisville Jewish Community Center, and I&#039 ; ve learned that your mother was born in Louisville, your father was born in Miami Beach, as you said, um, and where they were married, and then they moved into Louisville in 1951. What can you tell us about why they moved here, and why they left Miami? BRONNER: Well, the main reason they moved here was, uh, was primarily because of job opportunity, which was, my grandfather, who said--what frequently happens, kids come back and go to work for me. And, so they basically, uh, they basically moved here for a job opportunity at that time, and, uh, I wasn&#039 ; t--even though I tell people that, that--that they had to get married, it was a shotgun wedding, I guess it wasn&#039 ; t, so--uh, but I did show up a couple years after they moved back here, so, uh--so primarily it was--it was opportunity, at that point. That&#039 ; s why they left, that&#039 ; s why they came here. CRANE: And this was your grandfather&#039 ; s busi-- BRONNER: This was my grandfather&#039 ; s business. He was in real estate. CRANE: And what did he do? What was that business like? BRONNER: Well, obviously I wasn&#039 ; t there, but, um, mostly he-- CRANE: --you were almost there-- BRONNER: I was almost there, but I don&#039 ; t remember much of it. Uh, he would just--he would buy real estate, and, uh, manage real estate, sell real estate. He was involved in some home--not really home building. Uh,He, uh, he did have--he managed some small buildings, but I think mostly it was, he would, uh, he would buy some property, uh, build some shopping centers, and he would--he was involved in--it was more commercial than anything else at that time. It really wasn&#039 ; t, uh, um, uh, building subdivisions until my dad came, and then my dad wanted to be in the business, but he wanted to do something different, and so he started, uh, he started building, uh, personal homes, and subdivisions. CRANE: What are some of the commercial sites that your grandfather was involved in in Louisville? BRONNER: Um, the one is at Preston Highway--I&#039 ; m trying to think of the name of the shopping center. Um, Glenview. Glenview Shopping Center. That&#039 ; s the one I remember, because he used to take us out there, um--there was a donut place. They used to go out there every week, and buy donuts, and bring them back, or, he&#039 ; d take us out there and let us pick our own donuts. CRANE: And what did you get? BRONNER: What did we get? Oh, it was Dunkin Donut--donut sticks. They were the thing then. CRANE: And, as far as the subdivisions, when your father started doing it, he built subdivisions. Where in Louisville? BRONNER: Uh, went up Preston Highway, he built--I think it was called Blue Lick, uh, which were smaller homes, um--prices then were absurd, because I know he built our home that we lived in, um, for--for fifty years or more--he built that house. I think it cost $5,000, uh, at the time he built it, uh, but again, he was building it himself, you know, with his contractors. He was building subdivisions. Uh, he built houses out at Dale Hollow Lake, uh, when they were first building the lake. Um, he bought, uh--he built, uh, Dundee Estates, uh, developed one of those, uh, with my uncle Dick for a while, who had moved here briefly, um, and then, uh, he, uh, bought the Ross Todd estate with some partners, and he built, uh--he built, uh, private homes there, and then they had a, a real estate difficulty with builders--they were trying to unionize, and he finally became frustrated, and so he started building, uh, apartments, which is what he did basically the rest of his career. CRANE: When you say your uncle Dick, was his name Richard? BRONNER: Richard, right. CRANE: Richard --, okay. And where is--and he passed away as well? BRONNER: He did. Yeah. CRANE: And he was a business partner of your-- BRONNER: He was a business partner, after he--he, uh--my uncle Dick did a lot of different things. Very interestingly, he was in the Dakotas, uh, trying to get in oil, and, uh, they were trying to--he had a lot of shale oil leases, and they--they thought they could develop that, and, it was not, uh--it was not something they were able to do very effectively at that time, so he had all kinds of, uh, of mineral rights, but it wasn&#039 ; t something they could mine very effectively, so he came back to Kentucky briefly. I think it was about &#039 ; 55, because his, uh, his son, uh, his son Rick was, I think--I&#039 ; ve seen pictures of--of Rick at about a year old, and obviously, I was about two, so in that timeframe, he was here briefly, and he was here for several years. Um, and I know they were--they were working together, building part of Dundee Estates. They were looking at, uh, the--the funny story of the two of them, and there were many, was, they were both looking at construction sites, coming different directions, and they ran into each other, head-on--very slow, but head-on. CRANE: In vehicles? BRONNER: In vehicles, yeah. And, to hear the two of them scream at each other would have been funny. I was too young, but I&#039 ; ve heard the story many times. CRANE: What happened to the business? BRONNER: Um, the business developed into, uh, numerous apartment projects, and, uh, Steve came into--my brother Steve came into the business, gosh, after he graduated from college, he went straight there, so that would have been, oh, &#039 ; 77 or thereabouts? And he went into business with dad, and, uh, they developed several other properties, and the business carries on today. CRANE: And how is the business--besides ownership--changed over time? BRONNER: Well, obviously, I think, things have modernized somewhat, because we have computers today, as opposed to--as opposed to, people used to come in and pay their rent, uh, in cash as opposed to--as opposed to check and bank check, and, um, I think, um, it was, um--well, my memory is, my grandfather going in and pulling the filters out of the furnaces, and washing them by hand himself, and then drying them outside and putting them back in. So, it was the Russian, uh, frugality, and then moving on to more practical things over time. Uh, and obviously we wouldn&#039 ; t try and do that nowadays. CRANE: How old were you when your grandfather died? BRONNER: Let&#039 ; s see. I was, uh--I was a medical student. It was--it would have been 197--well, actually, I had just graduated medical school. It was, uh--it would have been early July, 1980. I was born in &#039 ; 53. CRANE: So what do you remember about him? BRONNER: My grandfather? CRANE: Yeah. BRONNER: Oh, lots, yeah. Great guy, um, he--they lived several blocks away. They showed up every night, uh, um, an hour or so after dinner for a visit, and, uh, so, and, uh, so frequently we were still having dinner when they&#039 ; d show up for a visit. He, uh, was, um, was a--a great big guy who was very fair. We&#039 ; d sit and watch basketball games when they were on. He was always for the underdog. He&#039 ; d be for--he&#039 ; d be for UK [University of Kentucky] until UK was way ahead, and then he&#039 ; d be for the underdog. And, he&#039 ; d cheer for the underdog, or he&#039 ; d be for U of L [University of Louisville], until U of L was ahead--he&#039 ; d be for the underdog, and we would get all, &quot ; No, you don&#039 ; t want them to catch up,&quot ; but he always wanted them to catch up. He thought it was fun for--to see some--to see a fair contest. He loved the horses. He went to Miles Park, uh, which doesn&#039 ; t, uh, exist anymore, and he would take Steve and I to Miles Park, he would sit us in a chair, he said, &quot ; What do you want to bet on?&quot ; And, he&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Now, stay there and I&#039 ; ll be back,&quot ; which was, uh, you know, the times where it was safe to do that, or at least presumed to be safe. You&#039 ; d never do that today. And, he&#039 ; d come back after the race was over and he&#039 ; d say--he&#039 ; d pull out two tickets, he said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m sorry you lost,&quot ; he&#039 ; d say--and he&#039 ; d pull out about four more, and say, &quot ; But I didn&#039 ; t.&quot ; And, so we went numerous times with him. He loved his horses. He had a friend who, uh, who had a stable, who was developing racehorses. He&#039 ; d go out with him. Uh, they actually named a racehorse after him, and, uh, have pictures of him riding horses. Um, and it goes on and on. CRANE: Where was Miles Park? BRONNER: Miles Park was at Algonquin Parkway. CRANE: Oh, it&#039 ; s in Louisville. BRONNER: In Louisville. It was in Louisville, yeah. CRANE: Wow. BRONNER: And, uh, it was a very small racetrack, before things got to where they are today, and, uh, it was--I don&#039 ; t know of the dates, because I was too young to know when it was going to be open, but--but it was, uh, you know, it was open, uh, pretty much, I think, when Churchill wasn&#039 ; t, it was open. So they raced a lot out there. And it burned down, and then they closed it. CRANE: You said that your mother&#039 ; s given name was Betty Jane-- BRONNER: --Levy-- CRANE: --Levy Bronner, and then it became Bronner. And, clearly, um, she was a gracious and much-loved lady, but I know her as Gigi, which is how I was introduced to her. How did she get to be known as Gigi? BRONNER: Uh, my son, who was the oldest of the--of the grandchildren, uh, I think he named her. I&#039 ; m not sure--I don&#039 ; t remember exactly when, but, um, I don&#039 ; t know if that was--if that was short for &quot ; Grandma,&quot ; or whatever it was, but he named her Gigi, and it stuck. So all the other kids call her Gigi. Matter of fact, almost everybody called her Gigi. CRANE: Did you call her Gigi, your mother? BRONNER: I did, yeah. I used to always call her Gigi as well. CRANE: Describe your mother&#039 ; s role in your family and in the Louisville community, if you can. BRONNER: I--I&#039 ; m not sure I can. I mean, it was, h--in the family, she, um, she took care of all the, uh, of, uh, all the things that my dad did not. My dad was gone, so she was in the, uh, in the housemaker role, the homemaker role, which was huge in the &#039 ; 50s, and very much what people, what people did. You know, one spouse worked, the other spouse raised the family, which might well not be a bad idea nowadays, but it&#039 ; s not the way things are. She took us where we needed to go, she made sure we got there, um, she took care of the house, um, she entertained when we had people over, which was often. She was involved in charity work. Uh-- CRANE: What kinds of charities? BRONNER: A lot of things through the JCC [Jewish Community Center]. Uh, a lot of, uh, other local charities. She did some things for Jewish Hospital. Um, um, honestly, I&#039 ; d have to look at some of the lists. The list was huge, you know, when she--when she passed away, and I saw the list, I was stunned to see how much she did. CRANE: You know, one of my favorite Jewish Lexington stories is about the three Hyman Levys that once lived there, and to keep them straight, we used to call them Little Hyman, or Shoe Hyman--some people called him Shoe Hyman ; Fat Hyman ; and Chicken Hyman. Uh, one of those Hymans--I guess it was Chicken Hyman--was related to you. Can you explain that relationship, and how he became known as Chicken Hyman? BRONNER: Well, that part of the family, and, uh, my grandfather, because I&#039 ; ve heard those stories frequently, uh, they would, uh, they made a living by riding the chicken train, which I can&#039 ; t imagine, but apparently there was a train that went to market in Chicago, and they filled it with a car full of chickens, and they made sure the chickens were safe, they were fed, and nobody stole them. And so they took them to be butchered in Chicago, and I think that&#039 ; s where the name came from. CRANE: And where did this train start from, here? BRONNER: You know, I don&#039 ; t know where it started from, but I know they got on it in Lexington, or somewhere out in the country. I suspect they probably brought the chickens to Lexington, they got on the train, and then went there from Lexington. CRANE: And so, how are you connected to Chicken Hyman? BRONNER: Well, uh, Nat was the son of Chicken Hyman, and he became one of the chickens, I guess. Um, and--because he rode the train, because I would hear stories about that. CRANE: Okay, so he was your great-uncle? BRONNER: Uh, right. CRANE: Okay. BRONNER: Right. Because the whole family--when they emigrated, the majority of the family, they emigrated to Lexington, so when the Lexington ties, fortunately or unfortunately, are coming back to me, because the kids are--(laughs)--the kids seem to be coming back to Lexington. CRANE: Okay. Um, like many Jewish immigrants, your mother&#039 ; s family name was not originally Levy, but it was changed, and I know you&#039 ; ve said this once before, and you&#039 ; ve told the story, but just for the record, can you spell it again for me? BRONNER: Oh, so you want to see if I do it the same way twice. CRANE: Well, actually, we&#039 ; re doing this so that the person who transcribes this can spell it correctly. BRONNER: Okay. I think it&#039 ; s--I think it&#039 ; s actually V-e-r-s--I don&#039 ; t know if there&#039 ; s a C or not--V-e-r-s-h-v-o-v-s-k-u, Vershvovsky. CRANE: Okay, thank you. BRONNER: And if you ask my wife, it&#039 ; s very funny to hear her pronounce it. CRANE: Okay. Where was your mother&#039 ; s family from, and how did your mother&#039 ; s family end up in Kentucky. BRONNER: Uh, I, uh, well, again, my grandfather was from Russia, um, and ended up in Lexington, and, uh, and, uh, met my mother--uh, met my grandmother here, fell in love with her, courted her, and, uh, ended up here, because this is where she was from. CRANE: I&#039 ; ve heard some family rumors that your grandfather had some connections with Al Capone. (laughs) What can you tell me about those rumors? BRONNER: Those were some of the few stories we could get out of my dad. CRANE: And this is your--the Bronner side of the family? BRONNER: Yeah. CRANE: Okay. BRONNER: They lived all around Miami, um, and the story we heard was, they lived on an island. The next island over was where Al Capone lived, and his son, Sonny Capone, uh, was a friend of, uh, of my uncle Dick&#039 ; s, and my uncle Hank&#039 ; s, and thus, my dad, so they all were social, and they would just take their little boat from their backyard--they lived on an island on the Venetian Causeway, and they were on the water in the bay, and they would get into a boat, and they would go to--to the island where Al Capone lived, and go spend the day with Sonny, and vice versa, and I think Al was pretty--was pretty old, and not out very much, and functional, uh, but some of his, uh--it&#039 ; s funny, my mom used to call him, uh, called them his henchmen--were always there, um--because she actually, you know, she knew Sonny. Sonny actually went into the restaurant business when he got older in Miami, and, uh, so when they were younger, they would go to the restaurant, or when we went back, they would go to the restaurant, and, um, so, I don&#039 ; t know the tie-in. Uh, my brother and I have talked, and my sister, um--as we&#039 ; ve gotten older, we have suspected that the furniture business--you know, you hear all these stories, that--that maybe they were--they were, um, taking some of the mob money, and they were running it through the business. I don&#039 ; t really know, but it makes for a good story. CRANE: It does. BRONNER: But I can&#039 ; t tell you that it&#039 ; s not true, either. CRANE: I&#039 ; ve learned from other interviews that before your father moved to Louisville, there were other Bronner family members that were living here. Two of them, um, I&#039 ; d like to ask you about them. First, there was an Augusta Fox Bronner, who uh--who from what I could Google about her, was quite notable. Tell me what you know about Augusta Fox Bronner. BRONNER: I think you know more than I do, uh, because you&#039 ; ve Googled her recently. Uh, I used to hear about her from my mom, uh, that she lived--(laughs)--really what I heard was that she was here, she was a teacher, um, that she was very progressive, that she had a college degree, um--I would say Google her, you&#039 ; ll get more, if you want to put into it what you know, because you&#039 ; ve Googled her recently--that would be great. We were talking about it beforehand, so-- CRANE: Um, I know that she lived, uh, from 1881 to 1966, and she was, um, was the daughter of Hannah Fox and Gustav Bronner, uh, and she was a clinical psychologist with expertise in juvenile delinquency. She taught at the Normal School for Women in Louisville, and she taught at Yale. Um, according to an interview that I listened to that your mother did, um, she was told by her pat--your mother&#039 ; s--your paternal grandmother, uh, that Augusta was your aunt, and that when they moved to Louisville, they should look her up. So, uh, did you ever meet her? BRONNER: Not that I know, but, I mean, you&#039 ; re talking about--I would have been--I would have been very young at that point, because if she passed away--you said &#039 ; 66? CRANE: Um-hm. BRONNER: So, I mean, I would have been a kid. CRANE: And you don&#039 ; t know if she has family here, or-- BRONNER: You know, there--there&#039 ; s only one other Bronner family here. Um, we know from, um, going way back, distant, that they all came from--they all came out of New York originally. They, uh--but that family is a Catholic family, uh, so we don&#039 ; t know their origin, obviously, we being Jewish family. Uh, I know a number of, uh--of the members of that family, but we don&#039 ; t know any direct tie-in to them. CRANE: And what about Dr. Herbert Bronner, who was, again, according to your mother, was associated with the Jewish Hospital in its very, very early years? BRONNER: Right. CRANE: What do you know about him? BRONNER: I know he was, uh, he was a staff president at one time. Um, I know his name was on a plaque in the entry--that&#039 ; s the first I knew about--well, when I started working at Jewish Hospital, you look at this plaque, and you see Bronner, and then you say, okay, who was this? Who was this guy? I&#039 ; ve never heard of him. So, he was very prominent in the medical community, but I don&#039 ; t know a lot of details. I think he did some OB at a time when they didn&#039 ; t specialize in OB, uh, so most people were--were family practitioners, and they may have done more one--one area than another, but that&#039 ; s really--I don&#039 ; t know a lot of details. So, once again, you&#039 ; ve been doing all the research--you may know more than I do. CRANE: You know, the only thing that I know was, it was very strange that, um, you could be an OB/GYN, and also be doing hearing. BRONNER: Um-hm. CRANE: I mean, it was a strange-- BRONNER: --you did everything, yeah-- CRANE: --connection, um, with specialties. BRONNER: Yeah. Well, there were no specialties, that&#039 ; s the thing, you know, so, specialties developed over time, but--but really, um--let&#039 ; s see, I was--in 1968, I fell through a glass door, and cut a flexor tendon on a hand, which meant that--that it had to be repaired surgically. There were no hand specialties. Dr. Kleinert, who is well known here, he was starting to take an interest in hand, but there was no specialty. So, if you were interested and you liked it, you set up shop and said, &quot ; Hey, I do--I do hand surgery, come see me, um, but I still will operate on your abdomen too at the same time.&quot ; So, it&#039 ; s just over, you know, over the last thirty years or more that things really started to--to specialize, and, um, so everyone did everything. CRANE: Okay. Your childhood. What was Judaism like in your family growing up? BRONNER: Boy, that&#039 ; s a--how was it in my family? My mother was--first of all, we were--we grew up Reform. We went to Brit Shalom, which doesn&#039 ; t exist anymore. CRANE: What was the name of it? BRONNER: Brit Shalom. And--it merged with, uh, it merged with, uh, another temple, to become The Temple, which is the big Reform synagogue here. Uh, it was relatively small. Um, it, um, it was, um--it was somewhat family oriented, um, I want to say small--you know, as a kind, it&#039 ; s hard to gauge. What--what looked big as a kid was really pretty small, so I don&#039 ; t really know how many families were there, but, uh, a number of, uh, a number of those--I think five of those families, when they joined The Temple to merge, split off to become, uh, to become Temple Shalom, which has now grown to a sizable synagogue here. Um, what the synagogue--what the temple--we went for the high holidays, uh, we went to the Sunday school every week, uh, we went for some of the, uh, for some of the, uh, Jewish holidays. My mom was kind of the one who, uh, who pushed that we, uh, be actively involved in religion. Uh, the, uh--it&#039 ; s been very interesting, because being, uh--there was originally no bat mitzvah then. Girls didn&#039 ; t have anything done. Uh, bar mitzvah was more or less elective. You--you went to Sunday school, and you were confirmed, and/or you got bar mitzvahed. Um, I decided to be confirmed, so I was not bar mitzvahed. It wasn&#039 ; t--it just wasn&#039 ; t as big a deal in the Reform temple as it--as it seems to have gotten today. Um, again, my mom was the one who at least appeared to be more religious, as far as pushing things. My dad was the guy who&#039 ; d take us to Sunday school, and he&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Let&#039 ; s cut today. Come on, let&#039 ; s--we&#039 ; re going to have a sugar and cupcake run, and go to the dairy, and, uh, I&#039 ; ll have coffee, and, uh, we&#039 ; ll have ice cream and donuts.&quot ; Uh, so that happened every so often. It probably wasn&#039 ; t the best example in the long run, but--but he did that. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know what his Jewish background was in Florida, but--but I do know that he was--he was far more religious, uh, than he ever let on when we were kids. Um, he, uh--he was always the usher at high holidays, and the joke was that the ushers would get everybody inside and then they would go and shoot craps, uh, while we were in synagogue--you know, a joke, obviously, but, uh, but, um, you know, that was--that was--my mom was one example, my dad was the less religious example, and we all fell somewhere in between. Now, we all had a Jewish identity, but I don&#039 ; t think that we--that we&#039 ; re--go to synagogue religious, like we see in the, in the other synagogues, and, uh, and I think everything has kind of progressed, uh, more today. I think it&#039 ; s much different today than it was then, although--although I think--i think, uh, we&#039 ; ve become much more of a melting pot today than we ever were then. CRANE: How did your family celebrate holidays? BRONNER: Which ones? CRANE: Any of them. BRONNER: Well, obviously holidays were always family--family events. We were always together. Um, we invited other relatives who would come if they could come, but, uh, but we were always together. There were, uh, there were things that were, um--you didn&#039 ; t plan to do anything else. Now, it was hard to do anything else, because the stores were closed, uh, there was no place to go, you know, you got your food in preparation for it in advance, and, uh, you just didn&#039 ; t plan to go out, because there was nothing to do. If you went out, you went out for a ride, because there was nowhere to stop, including gas stations, so you better gas up before. CRANE: What did your parents teach you about Judaism? BRONNER: I think they taught me that it was an identity, uh, more than anything else, uh-- CRANE: What do you mean by that? BRONNER: That there was, uh--well, I wasn&#039 ; t--well, I wasn&#039 ; t a temple-going Jew, I never got very much from it. Uh, I always felt that to go to temple and have somebody lead me in a ceremony that didn&#039 ; t allow me to think, uh, that was never something that I enjoyed very much or got much out of. Now, my mom made sure that we went, but I think my dad taught me more that you need to consider who you are and what you get from being Jewish, and, uh, and again, that identity was identified with the Jewish people. I identified with other people, obviously, but I knew that I was Jewish, and, uh, I knew that it was--I won&#039 ; t say a way of life, but I guess it kind of was a way of life, at that time, especially. CRANE: How were your parents&#039 ; , uh, relationship to Judaism different than their parents&#039 ; relationship to Judaism? BRONNER: Boy. Um, I can&#039 ; t tell you about my paternal parents, because I don&#039 ; t know, uh, but again, my dad certainly had Jewish training, and my uncles had Jewish training. My dad had unique training, because he was recruited and went to a Catholic high school because of athletics, so he was also pretty well Catholic trained too. Um, he used that as an advantage, but he was obviously Jewish. Um, from my mom&#039 ; s side, I think my grandmother was, uh, a little more liberal than my grandfather. My grandfather was more religious, and he would go to the Reform temple, and he would go to--he would, uh--he was at home anywhere, and I&#039 ; m not sure if that was his--his Russian background, or his acceptance into the Jewish community when they got here. I don&#039 ; t really know. That really was something we never talked about as kids. You know, I don&#039 ; t think we thought about it. Maybe more so as an adult, but it was another thing we never had a chance to ask. CRANE: What--um, I know there&#039 ; s an age difference, a couple years between you and Steve and Barbara, but what were your Jewish experiences? How were they different? BRONNER: I don&#039 ; t know that they were that much different in that--in that--in those years. Um, you know, we participated in--again, we went--we went to temple. Um, Barbara wasn&#039 ; t eligible, uh, to be bat mitzvahed, because it wasn&#039 ; t anything you thought about. Um, but we were deeply involved in the JCC, spent a lot of time there, um, were involved in--in Jewish clubs, which were very big, and are not so much anymore. Um, pretty much if you were a Jewish kid then, you joined a Jewish club, which gave you exposure to--indirect exposure to other Jewish kids, and Jewish girls, which was very big at the time, uh, still would be, I suppose, but it was very big then as a kid, and, uh, I think that&#039 ; s probably the thing that, uh, that involves you more than anything else in that part of Jewish community life. CRANE: What were the clubs like? BRONNER: It was social, but there were also--you know, there was--well, it ran the gamut. There were those that were very--uber-religious, and there were those that weren&#039 ; t so religious, but the religion in the ones that weren&#039 ; t religious, uber-religious, was still there. It was subtle, but it was there. Uh, I obviously gravitated to the one that was the more popular one, which, if I had to do again, I don&#039 ; t know if that&#039 ; s where I&#039 ; d be, but, uh--just because of what I know today, but, uh, it was more or less a matter of, they were driven by athletics, for the most part, at that time, and then when you got in, there was a social component, and the social component entailed also the--the religious component, which you didn&#039 ; t really know as you were doing it, but as you&#039 ; d become an adult, you&#039 ; d start to see that. CRANE: And these were all Jewish clubs associated with the-- BRONNER: --with the JCC, yeah-- CRANE: --the JCC. In one of the interviews that I listened to, I think it was of your father&#039 ; s, talked about what--it was his impression of what a wonderful opportunity his children had by participating in the JCC here in Louisville-- BRONNER: --um-hm-- CRANE: --and thought it just did wonders for you all. And, I&#039 ; m just, um--what was the name of your club? What kinds of friends did you make? Um, do you still have those friendships, those relationships with the people that you grew up with, in--in those social circles? BRONNER: Um, we were at a point where--I was in a--in a club called, uh, Pi, Pi Tau Pi. There were, I think, five or six different clubs at the time. Um, most of the people that I was affiliated with then moved away. Um, we actually started a faction where three clubs used to have social things, uh, unsanctioned social things together, because there were a number of us who were friends, and it was like any other--uh, they used to go around, and they would choose who they wanted in the club, and then they would come to the house and say, &quot ; Hey,&quot ; you know--and you would list who you were interested in, but they would come to the house and say, um, &quot ; Hey, you&#039 ; re in our club,&quot ; and you&#039 ; d go with them, and, uh, and that was kind of how you got involved, and, um, it was, um, it was a good place to be in high school, because it filled your time, it kept you out of trouble, uh, it got you into, uh--got you into sports, and it got you into social life. Most of my friends from there moved away, they live in different places, um, different--different circles, um, and I have--I have friends locally--I wouldn&#039 ; t say that they&#039 ; re close friends, but, uh, but people I know well, from that time. But also, a lot of people, as I said, I&#039 ; m not sure I would go in that direction today, because I have many, many friends who were in others of these clubs, and who might well be considered better friends than they were then. Uh, I think you learn things as you grow up, learn things about yourself as you grow up. CRANE: What kind of--did you live in a Jewish neighborhood, if that&#039 ; s even a possibility? Um, there have been other people that I&#039 ; ve spoken with, um, that have shared that they grew up in more of a neighborhood where there were lots of Jewish kids, and they went from their neighborhood to the JCC. Just wondering if the neighborhood that you grew up in, or the schools that you went to, if there was a strong Jewish population there? BRONNER: Percentage-wise, I couldn&#039 ; t say. Yes, there was a strong Jewish population, um, or either that or we affiliated with those people, because we were involved in the Jewish club scene, but we were--we were a pretty mixed subdivision. We had a lot of different people of a lot of different religions, which really, for the most part, never came up. We didn&#039 ; t go to church with them, they didn&#039 ; t go to--to temple with us, uh, but we were all outside playing after school. We weren&#039 ; t inside--there was nothing to do inside. Uh, so we were all outside, and we&#039 ; d go outside and we&#039 ; d ride our bikes to somebody&#039 ; s house, and we&#039 ; d do whatever--we&#039 ; d play, whatever games we play--football, baseball, uh, and many nights, we would end up eating dinner at some neighbor&#039 ; s house, and again, uh, and maybe dinner at our house, but I don&#039 ; t know that it was specifically Jewish-oriented. I really don&#039 ; t think so. CRANE: What was the non-Jewish community&#039 ; s reaction to your Jewishness? BRONNER: I don&#039 ; t think it ever came up that I was aware of. Now, it may have been on the parental side, but--but I was never aware of any bias, for or against. At least, not where--not where I lived. If there--if it was there, I was not aware of it. CRANE: Describe if you connected with any--besides the larger Jewish community that you connected with through the JCC, did you connect with even a bigger Jewish community? Did you all take field trips, uh, did you go to Cincinnati? Obviously, Lexington&#039 ; s a smaller Jewish community, so you&#039 ; re probably not going to go there, but-- BRONNER: No, we weren&#039 ; t going to go there. UK was there. No, we were all U of L fans. CRANE: I&#039 ; m going to ignore that one. BRONNER: Honestly, really, there were a lot of people who did. Uh, the girls seemed to do that more than the men. There were some athletic--there were some athletic trips, if you, uh, had a very, uh--and again, basketball, we had a very good basketball team, uh, there were some national tournaments, um, uh--those would be in Atlanta, for the most part, but really, it was pretty much local, at least that I was involved in. CRANE: What is your most vivid memory of Jewish life and ritual growing up? BRONNER: Wow. My most vivid memory. Gosh. Um, that&#039 ; s a hard question. You should have asked me that before, to think about it. I would say--and it&#039 ; s a crazy memory, honestly, but I think probably the most vivid memory was Sukkos, and, uh, going--they used to have big bushels of apples, and as a kid, you&#039 ; d get to go and pick an apple. You&#039 ; d go to services, you&#039 ; d get to go pick an apple. It&#039 ; s a crazy memory, but that&#039 ; s probably it. CRANE: That&#039 ; s okay. Before we get into your adult life, is there anything else unique or special that you would like to share about your family background or your childhood years? BRONNER: Wow. Uh, nothing specific, unless you want to lead me somewhere. CRANE: Well, I might in a little bit. F2: What about schools when you were a child, and other Jewish kids in the schools that you went to? Which schools did you go to? BRONNER: I went to Belknap Elementary, it was on Speed Avenue, which hasn&#039 ; t existed for a number of years, went to Highland Junior High--we went through sixth grade in elementary school, seventh, eighth, and ninth was junior high school, so I went to Highland, which is a middle school now, and then went to Atherton for high school. And--and it was mixed--you know, there was some Jewish kids, there were lots of other kids there. Uh, I had lots of Jewish friends growing up, because--I think primarily because of, uh, people in the Jewish club scene. I mean, I think that really was the glue that held that together. CRANE: You mentioned, um, just a little while ago that it&#039 ; s different now. What did you mean by that? BRONNER: Uh, when my kids grew up, that really wasn&#039 ; t something that--I don&#039 ; t know that it didn&#039 ; t exist, but it wasn&#039 ; t a priority. There were, uh, I think, somewhere--and probably because of decreased involvement, it--it turned into one or two clubs, and, uh, if you wanted to join, you came in and you joined whatever you wanted. Um, the involvement, the numbers were down, the numbers at JCC were down--it just, uh, it just was not the same, and my kids chose not to be involved in that. CRANE: You know, did you grow up in a time period where you had high school clubs? Not Jewish--necessarily Jewish clubs at the JCC, but just high school clubs? BRONNER: You mean so you could say on the yearbook that you were in the chess club, and the-- CRANE: Not the chess club, social clubs. BRONNER: No, there were not. No. If there were, we were too busy participating in our clubs through the JCC, so that&#039 ; s really--that&#039 ; s really what we were into. CRANE: So where did you go to college? BRONNER: I went to Indiana University, um, started there in 1971, and, um, did not graduate--I graduated from U of L. Uh, I was at IU [Indiana University] for--well, really for three years, but really only had about two and a half years of credit, because I became--I got ill, and had to come home and be hospitalized. I went back, finished nine--nine hours one semester--the next semester, went back, got sick, had to go back, was hospitalized, went back, finished six hours--the next semester, went back, got sick, and dropped out, and took the rest of the year off, which was actually a--it was what needed to happen, but it was--in retrospect, it was pretty nice as far as teaching me that you didn&#039 ; t have to just keep up like you felt like you had to in one through twelve years, because it didn&#039 ; t seem to matter. So, after that, I--I enrolled at U of L--University of Louisville--and graduated from there. CRANE: And when did you graduate from U of L? BRONNER: If I was on track, I would have graduated in &#039 ; 75. I graduated in &#039 ; 76. CRANE: And, what did you study? BRONNER: I went in pre-med, science major, and stayed that. CRANE: While you were in college, whether it be IU or U of L, describe any affiliation that you had with a Jewish organization, such as a fraternity or Hillel. BRONNER: Right. I, uh, initially went into the dorm, because I wanted, uh, not to make any rash decisions about what I did, and after one semester, joined ZBT [Zeta Beta Tau], and moved into ZBT the next year. CRANE: What was that like? BRONNER: The fraternity? CRANE: Um-hm. BRONNER: When I joined ZBT, it was when fraternities were very down, they were very much on the outs, except at IU, fraternities were running strong, and it was--it was a great big fraternity house that, uh, had room to house about 120 people, which was massive, when you think about it, and they pretty much did. It was overflow at the time. It was, uh--it was a fun place to be. It was a good place to be. It was much like, uh, much like the people that I had, uh--that I had been with, uh, in high school, except much broader. Um, some of my friends from high school joined that fraternity. Um, it was, um--gosh, again, it wasn&#039 ; t the more religious fraternity, but there was religious--but there was--you know, they were--it was more of a Reform type atmosphere, and so there were--there were--we celebrated services, um, we had a lot of things that were social, and, uh, people generally did very well academically. A lot of bright guys there. CRANE: And when you say that there was some--obviously it was a Jewish fraternity, there was some Jewishness to it, can you describe more of what that was like? BRONNER: Well, let me also say there were a number of people in the fraternity who were not Jewish, and, uh, they just liked the fraternity and they liked the people there and they liked what they were doing. What was it like? Uh, there were some people who were more religious, and they would go to services. Um, actually, my first roommate at ZBT--actually, I had two, but one of them, his parents had been concentration camp survivors, and, uh, he was exceptionally religious, and he was involved with Hillel, and, uh, he was at services daily, uh, which was an interesting experience for me, because I&#039 ; d not been exposed to anyone with that background, or that degree of, uh, being religious until him, and, uh, actually one morning I woke up, and I thought he was--I joked with him, I thought he was committing suicide--he would lay tefilin, and so he would strap himself up, and I&#039 ; d go, &quot ; No, don&#039 ; t do it, nothing can be that bad!&quot ; So, he taught me a lot, uh, and we&#039 ; ve communicated over the years, and uh, um, I have another--my other roommate, who was not Jewish--I have no idea what happened to him. Never seen or heard from him. So--and then, a number of other people, um, in that class, who I see or hear from intermittently, uh, probably more intermittent as the years go by. Uh, I think some of the social media makes it easier to look people up--that&#039 ; s been fun. Um, but, again, it was--I guess it was a situation where you could have as much Jewish, uh, involvement with--it was multiple different groups, you know--it, uh, it crossed all borders, so, uh, so you could be involved in everything, or nothing. It was very non-judgmental--that was one of the nice things about it. CRANE: Did you have any affiliation with Hillel during that time that you were there? BRONNER: Uh, not really. I was invited numerous times, but not really. As a matter of fact, high holidays, my roommate, uh, had me on the schedule with an aliyah, and I told him I had class, I couldn&#039 ; t go. I just--it was not--it was just not something I was--he was trying to get me involved, and it was not something that I was ready to be involved in at that time. CRANE: Um, what was your social life like while you were at IU? BRONNER: It was, uh, interesting. We had fraternity parties, uh, every weekend, um--had dated a number of different people, had a girlfriend here, uh, who would come up, uh, who would come up, uh, intermittently, uh, and we were--it was a great social life. IU&#039 ; s a great place. When I--when I left, my brother subsequently went there and graduated from IU, my sister subsequently went to IU and graduate from IU--must have been a good place, I set a good example. CRANE: Okay, so you left IU and you came back-- BRONNER: --to Louisville-- CRANE: --to Louisville, and then what happened? BRONNER: I went from Louisville undergrad to med school, at U of L, and graduated from there. CRANE: And how was that transition? BRONNER: I graduated from undergrad, and, uh, a few months later, started medical school. I mean, it was pretty seamless--I didn&#039 ; t have to go very far, I didn&#039 ; t have to do anything--the only thing that I did in the meantime was, I got married between undergrad and grad school. That was the only transition. CRANE: Okay. Um, you married Anne between--after you graduated from college-- BRONNER: --college-- CRANE: --and before you started medical school. BRONNER: Right. CRANE: I&#039 ; m assuming she was the one that came up to visit you at IU. BRONNER: She was. She was. CRANE: Describe the Jewish population of students, or the faculty, at U of L when you were in medical school. BRONNER: Wow. CRANE: Were there other Jewish kids in your-- BRONNER: Um, yeah, there were. I mean, a couple of my close friends were Jewish. Uh, I don&#039 ; t know that I sought them out--I guess we found each other, uh--and, uh, I don&#039 ; t think it was anything that was planned, I think it just happened. CRANE: How does that happen? BRONNER: I just think it&#039 ; s your background, you know? Sometimes--sometimes you&#039 ; ll hear a name, and you&#039 ; ll figure that guy&#039 ; s Jewish, or she&#039 ; s Jewish, and you--I don&#039 ; t know, I think, at least at the outset, when you don&#039 ; t know somebody, it set a common ground. Again, I think it&#039 ; s--it wasn&#039 ; t, uh, it just allowed you to--to feel like you came from the same place, and so-- CRANE: And are you still friends with these people? Did you stay in contact with them? BRONNER: Um, a couple. A couple. Again, it&#039 ; s been a couple years. CRANE: Since you graduated? BRONNER: Yeah, a couple. I graduated in 1980, so it&#039 ; s been a few. CRANE: Um, what was the--was there a Jewish medical staff, I mean, uh, at the university? BRONNER: They were scattered. There were a few. There were a few. There was-- CRANE: Were they supportive, or, did you connect with them, with-- BRONNER: --you know, they--not really. You know, uh, they were there. I don&#039 ; t think they showed favoritism toward anyone. I really don&#039 ; t. CRANE: And where did you do your internship or residency? BRONNER: I went to Charleston, South Carolina to Medical University of South Carolina. CRANE: And you did both of them there? BRONNER: Internship, residency, and fellowship. I stayed for five years. CRANE: Okay. How old were your children when you moved back to Louisville? I know they were--were they all born in South Carolina? BRONNER: All born in South Carolina. CRANE: And then you moved back to Louisville? BRONNER: Moved back to Louisville. Beth, the youngest, was six months. Meredith was about two, Jonathan--Jonathan, uh, was almost--was about four. CRANE: And what were holidays like in your home as your children were growing up? BRONNER: Uh, holidays were fun, uh, whole family was there, uh, we would go to--to--to parents&#039 ; houses, or they would come to our house, and it was a big family gathering, and my siblings that were here, they--we would all get together, one house or another. CRANE: As an adult, explain your reasoning for either a continuing affiliation with your temple or why you&#039 ; ve not continued. BRONNER: Um, I was a member of Temple Shalom from 1985, when I moved back to Louisville, until recently--until about two years ago. Um, I was very fond of the rabbi, who&#039 ; s since--now retired, uh, Stanley Miles, um, I was involved in--in helping to develop the new building, uh, like a number of people there--children were involved, it was--Stanley was very good with the kids, as far as education. Uh, kids all moved away, girls decided not to come back home to be married, which seems to be the latest trend--they used to all come back home to be married, and now they want to be married where their friends are and where they&#039 ; re going to live, so they were married in other cities, and, uh, and there were some issues going on with, uh, with Temple Shalom, and family, so I dropped out of Temple Shalom, um,--which I won&#039 ; t get into, but there were issues and reasons, and I just decided that I would go to The Temple, the large Reform, uh, temple, which was, um, which was where my family went, and they were always going to come here. My mom went, and--basically what I found is that as the kids were going, I was going where my mom was, more than anything else. It was family. CRANE: And where do your siblings go? Do they go to the same temple? BRONNER: They go The Temple--the whole family, yeah. CRANE: What supports and challenges were there for you in Louisville raising your--your kids Jewish, and did you actively-- BRONNER: The biggest support was family, I think, um, you know, um, having the family there on both sides was huge. That was the biggest reason probably to move back to Louisville. Um, I loved Charleston, I would have stayed there, but family, and, just opportunity, and cover--but probably family was the biggest reason to come back. CRANE: Tell me about your children&#039 ; s involvement in their--uh, in the the Jewish community here as they were growing up. BRONNER: Um, gosh. They started at Knesset Israel preschool, uh, that&#039 ; s where they started, uh, made a lot of friends there, some of whom have been lifelong friends, continue to be. Now, obviously, they&#039 ; ve got another thirty years or so to get to where I am, and life takes people down different roads, but--but many of them have lifelong friends that are here, in different cities, and different places, and last weekend we were just, uh, at a wedding with a lot of Meredith&#039 ; s childhood friends that they went to preschool with, and, uh, and they had all become friends, uh, so my son and youngest daughter--all three of my kids were there, so, uh, so there was a--you know, there was a close relationship with all of them, and I think you get all that interrelationship, and if you can make it go as many years as this has gone, uh, that&#039 ; s good. Uh, you know, again, um, then they went to other schools, they were--and at that point, the JCC had declined some, so they really weren&#039 ; t involved in the club scene, but there was a time when they took all the confirmation classes, and they started teaching them together from all the different temples and synagogues. And, our rabbi, Stanley Miles, was deeply involved in that, and I think that got them involved in the--they met a lot of other kids that maybe they didn&#039 ; t know, uh, they started to have relationships from the standpoint of doing things with these other kids, and so, I think, starting at KI preschool and going forward, I think, was big. I can&#039 ; t tell you, relative to going to school and high school, but again, I know with my son, some of his closest friends even today, even though they live in different cities, uh, were, uh, my son&#039 ; s best friend he met at three. So, you know, so I think it obviously had an impact, and they went through school together. CRANE: Knesset is a more Conservative-- BRONNER: --no-- CRANE: Orthodox, okay, now it&#039 ; s Conservative-- BRONNER: --it was very Orthodox at that time-- CRANE: --back--okay. Now it&#039 ; s-- BRONNER: --uh, it&#039 ; s kind of gone Conservative, Orthodox, middle ground, in order to survive. CRANE: Conservadox. (laughs) BRONNER: Yeah. In order to survive, yes. CRANE: Okay. And so, why did you all make that choice, growing up in a Reformed temple, practicing Reform Judaism, why did you choose to send your kids to a more Conservative / Orthodox preschool? BRONNER: Uh, knew people there, it was what was felt to be the best preschool at that time, though there was some others that we could have gone to, and in South Carolina, you know, you went to some of the generic preschools for a while, with my son, at least, and, uh, this was just a good place to be, and probably at the back of our minds, there was some Jewish connection there too, but again, it was citywide--I mean, it wasn&#039 ; t just Jewish kids there, it was felt to be a high-quality place. CRANE: You know, you have a long history with the Louisville Jewish community. What are some of your thoughts on how the Jewish community has changed over your lifetime? BRONNER: Um, gosh, I think, um, I&#039 ; ve seen more people go farther away, their kids go farther away and not come back, which spreads people far and wide. Um, I think probably the biggest thing is intermarriage, which is not just here, I mean, it&#039 ; s everywhere. I think that&#039 ; s probably the biggest thing. CRANE: How has, uh, the role of having a Jewish mayor--how do you see the role of Jerry Abramson on the Jewish community at large, or Jews in Louisville? BRONNER: Well, he lied to us. He was supposed to be mayor for life. No, that was always the joke when Jerry was the mayor. I mean, I think it was something that the Jewish community silently took pride in, but didn&#039 ; t talk about outside of the Jewish community. He was highly involved in things. I know he had--he had, uh, interest in Jewish events, but again, I think he was very fair, and he, he showed his interest in everything. I think it was pretty much--I don&#039 ; t think he was especially unfair to anything, and I think he was a very good mayor. CRANE: Do you think it changed anything towards lessening any anti-Semitic views in the community, if there are any or have been? BRONNER: I mean, there obviously are, there obviously were, and some of them obviously still exist. I think they&#039 ; re--they&#039 ; re less, and I think they&#039 ; re less vocal. Um, you know, I can&#039 ; t say whether that had a lot to do with it or not. I would guess probably, over time, it did. Um, obviously it must have--he got elected, they knew he was Jewish, so it must have had some impact, because if you went back many years, it would never have happened, um, but--uh, I don&#039 ; t know that I&#039 ; ve thought about that aspect of it, but I&#039 ; m sure it did change things. I know when I was in--you know, I thought when I was in high school, we were working at polls for elections, and some of us got sent out--Dixie Highway, which was the south end of Louisville, which was--which was an area where, uh, Jewish people did not live, and I think many of the people there, uh, had never seen Jewish people before. I don&#039 ; t know how they found out--somebody said something that was not purely nice about the candidate, or someone, and they--and someone said, &quot ; Well, you know, I&#039 ; m Jewish,&quot ; and it was very interesting, uh, because I don&#039 ; t think they--I don&#039 ; t think they&#039 ; d ever seen anyone who was Jewish, and recognized the fact that you couldn&#039 ; t tell us apart from anybody else. CRANE: What&#039 ; s been the role of Israel of Zionism in your activities and of your identity as a Jew? BRONNER: You know, I--I personally consider myself to be a Jewish-American. I have, um--I have not been particularly involved from that standpoint, because I, uh--I think they do need support, but, there were a lot of underhanded ways they approached me when I was younger, and because of that, I think I was very turned off by it. CRANE: Would you like to just explain what you mean by underhanded? BRONNER: Um, when--when they--again, probably one simple thing from when I was a teen, they would, um, they would have what&#039 ; s now morphed into Super Sunday, and they would--they would call you up and ask how much you want to give, and they&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Your brother&#039 ; s giving $5, don&#039 ; t you want to beat him?&quot ; And then they&#039 ; d call my brother back and say, &quot ; Well, he&#039 ; s giving $8, don&#039 ; t you want to beat him?&quot ; Um, you know, as an adult, I can make my own decisions, but, there was a degree of competitiveness that was going on, and I don&#039 ; t think that was the right way to approach things. Uh, again, those were people who were just interested in things, but, um, I would much rather have a charity that collects for charities as opposed to one who spends a lot of money on other things to be able to collect money, uh, and in recent years, when they&#039 ; ve asked for a donation, my answer is, &quot ; Show me how much of the money is going to what--to where it&#039 ; s supposed to go. I want to know the breakdown.&quot ; And, you know, to this day, I&#039 ; ve never had anyone send me a breakdown, ever--telling me it&#039 ; s fairly poorly prepared, as far as these people who are calling me. So, again, those are the things that turn me off. CRANE: Let&#039 ; s talk about your work as a physician. What area of medicine is your specialty? BRONNER: Uh, gastroenterology. CRANE: And how long have you been in practice? BRONNER: I started private practice in 1985. CRANE: And doing my homework, I learned that you were the founding medical director of the Kentucky chapter of the Crohn&#039 ; s and Colitis Foundation of America. If you could share some of the history behind this organization, and the role you have played, and why it became so important to you. BRONNER: What year was that? CRANE: I don&#039 ; t know. BRONNER: I don&#039 ; t know--I don&#039 ; t remember either. It was a long time ago. CRANE: It&#039 ; s been a while. BRONNER: Yeah. Um, obviously I was--as--as I said, I came home from college a number of years, uh, because I got sick, and that&#039 ; s because I was ultimately diagnosed with Crohn&#039 ; s disease. My brother was diagnosed with Crohn&#039 ; s disease when he was nine, and at that time, nobody knew exactly what it was or how to treat it, and certainly not here, and, uh, he went to Chicago, where Dr. Joseph Kirsner practiced, and was diagnosed and treated, and for many years, as opposed to--pretty much here, they knew nothing, and they kind of say, &quot ; He&#039 ; s probably going to die,&quot ; and my mom, not taking that for an answer, said, &quot ; Okay, we&#039 ; ll go elsewhere,&quot ; and took him to Chicago, after doing her research, which probably was through World Book Encyclopedia at that time. Uh, you know, we didn&#039 ; t have the access to things we do today, and, uh, so basically, um, she went there, uh, my brother survived, did well--numerous surgeries, but I was involved in it--and I was always the healthy kid, and again, I got sick, and had, uh, developed the same disease when I was in college, so, um, it became very personal, and so, that was my tie-in, and--and I felt that any charity that supported research into inflammatory bowel disease was important. For a long time before that, before that group, uh, really existed, we donated to the Gastrointestinal Research Foundation, which is out of University of Chicago, founded by Joseph Kirsner, and then when things became broader with this organization, uh, really threw everything behind that. And, uh, when we decided to formulate a chapter, of which a number of people in this community, many of whom had a reason to become involved, because of inflammatory bowel disease personally or in their family, including my parents, uh, started up--we decided that we were going to formulate a chapter. They asked me as a GI doctor to be the medical director, and ultimately formed the first Kentucky chapter. A lot of hoops to jump through, but a lot of big people here helped get it going. CRANE: And what&#039 ; s the status of this organization now? BRONNER: The overall organization, Crohn&#039 ; s and Colitis Foundation? CRANE: No, the chapter. BRONNER: The chapter? Well, ultimately we had a very successful chapter for a number of years. Uh, the chapter folded, not because the chapter was unsuccessful, because the organization, which had undergone numerous reorganizations, decided to do it again. They decided they would save money by removing our local chapter director. Uh, I think he had about thirty minutes to pack up his things, and give his key, which was donated space by one of our board of directors--give his key to the person that came to town to relieve him of his duties, and they told nobody on our board, and we were all pretty much incensed by it, and I called the regional director when I heard about this, and asked--I really said I want to know one thing, and that is, was there malfeasance there, and if there was, just say yes, if not, say no. They said no, and they wanted to explain that this was their idea to make more money--they would save the salary of this person, and we were now going to be under the--so, the Indianapolis chapter director. Now, we existed before they had an Indianapolis chapter, and I think probably two or three weeks after we became under the Indianapolis chapter director, she was pregnant, and she was--she, uh, was taken off her feet for the remainder of her pregnancy, so there was nobody in the, uh--there were a lot of--we, uh, we had a lot of chiefs, but we didn&#039 ; t have enough Indians, and so pretty much the board and the people who drove the chapter, we all basically washed our hands of it at that time, and the chapter folded, which was--which was a pattern that happened a lot of places. It was a bad plan, and they finally decided that, uh, that that was a bad plan, and then over maybe ten years, they started to slowly reorganize. There is a chapter now. I don&#039 ; t think it&#039 ; s as successful or as big, but there is a chapter, which is a good thing for patients. CRANE: I read an article online that stated that the Louisville Jewish Hospital was established in 1903, in part to provide facilities for Jewish doctors who were denied staff privileges elsewhere, and whose patients might prefer treatment in a Jewish environment. BRONNER: Um-hm. CRANE: What has been your relationship with the Jewish Hospital, and what do you know of the Jewish Hospital? BRONNER: Well, obviously I wasn&#039 ; t involved in the original Jewish Hospital, which was a very small building with a small number of physicians. It ultimately got bigger, and moved to Chestnut Street in Louisville. When I came back to Louisville, I was working in two locations. I was recruited by a Jewish physician that I had grown up with his kids to go to the South End, and worked at Southwest Hospital out there, which has since folded, uh, a number of years back, uh, as a hospital entity, at least, uh, and also to work downtown at Jewish Hospital. So, I, uh, spent probably the majority of my career working at Jewish Hospital downtown. Uh, at one time, uh, probably spent the majority of my day down there, uh, doing inpatient care, and endoscopic care, and, uh, over time, things have kind of morphed and changed, and, uh, they&#039 ; re owned by a different company now. Things, in my mind, are somewhat in decline, but they decided that they wanted to, uh, I don&#039 ; t know, maybe five to eight years ago, they wanted to cater to the University of Louisville. They decided they were going to bring the University of Louisville staff--staff and faculty--into the hospital, and it wasn&#039 ; t just myself, it was, uh, GI [gastrointestinal], pulmonary, nephrology, and, they basically, if one of my patients came into the hospital, uh, with the now hospital system, uh, the hospitals would admit the patient, they would consult the specialties, my patient that I&#039 ; d taken care of for ten or twenty years would be--uh, it was a consult put out for the university GI doctor to see them, they--it wasn&#039 ; t their fault, they wouldn&#039 ; t know what was going on--they&#039 ; d go in to see the patient, who would say, &quot ; Oh, where&#039 ; s Dr. Bronner?&quot ; &quot ; Oh, you&#039 ; re his patient? Well, I&#039 ; m here, let me take care of this.&quot ; The next--&quot ; Well, I want to see Dr. Bronner.&quot ; &quot ; Okay, I&#039 ; ll take care of that.&quot ; The next day, they&#039 ; d go down to the endoscopy unit for, for an endoscopy, and someone else would be there, and they&#039 ; d say, &quot ; Well, where&#039 ; s Dr. Bronner?&quot ; &quot ; Oh, is he your doctor?&quot ; &quot ; Yes, where is he?&quot ; &quot ; Um, well, I don&#039 ; t know, but I&#039 ; m here, um, let&#039 ; s just take care of this,&quot ; and they&#039 ; re sick, so they said okay. I found out about this kind of practice after my patient would come back to see me in the hospital, and say, &quot ; You didn&#039 ; t know I was in the hospital, did you?&quot ; Obviously not. Um--so this went on, we complained to the administration, uh, were always told, um, &quot ; Oh, we&#039 ; re really sorry, we&#039 ; ll fix it.&quot ; More and more, it didn&#039 ; t get fixed, and, so we didn&#039 ; t--we weren&#039 ; t told not to come back, we were kind of driven away by policy, and the same thing happened to the pulmonary doctors, uh, to the nephrologists, to where they pretty much had just University there, and that&#039 ; s a close alliance that they have now. CRANE: So what caused this change? BRONNER: Uh, that--the--I think times caused it, things changed. When I came to town, they were very big in a lot of areas. I think the--uh, the administration of the hospital--I think some of the people there, uh, were way ahead of the times and had some ideas, or way ahead of the times--they were doing hearts, which were very big then, and nobody else was doing anywhere near the number--they were doing hands, because of Dr. Kleinert, and they were an international hand center, and so it had, uh--it had international recognition for things that they were doing, and, um, there are a lot less hearts being done because of stent work now, and other places--well, they trained a lot of doctors who now have gone to other places who can do the same surgeries, so there are not that many hearts being done. Same thing with hands--they still have a great hand surgery, uh, service, but there are a lot of other places that do hands as well. Um, I think, uh, we began to do more and more outpatient work. Um, they had some--they had some infectious issues, which gave the hospital a shaky name for a while. Um, the location--the patient population, they had a--as many hospitals did, they had a unit that was--kind of like it was a hotel--after a surgery, I spent some time--it was very nice. Uh, the problem for the hospital was, it was very expensive to maintain, and to--to hold that unit, if the hospital was full--those were still hospital beds, so they had to be filled with whoever came in, even if you couldn&#039 ; t pay extra for the hospital bed, and they would have to staff it, uh, so ultimately that unit--that unit&#039 ; s closed, so again, it&#039 ; s kind of morphed more into a university hospital population, many of whom were on Passport, Medicaid--and the problem is that that doesn&#039 ; t pay enough to run a hospital. You know, you had to have more private patients to be able to run the hospital, and, uh, and so again, that got the hospital more in decline. They had a contract with the university, so the university was coming. The university didn&#039 ; t have the faculty to run University Hospital and Jewish Hospital, and they had people at Norton Hospital across the street, so, they&#039 ; d run off a lot of their private physicians by then, uh, now they&#039 ; ve sold out to KentuckyOne, which is primarily a Catholic-based hospital system. Uh, they&#039 ; ve lost a ton of money, um, I don&#039 ; t think it&#039 ; s well run. Again, they&#039 ; ve chased people off, um, they&#039 ; ve not integrated well with the other hospital computer systems, um, they&#039 ; ve made it very hard to get records, very hard to practice there, and, I don&#039 ; t know if they&#039 ; ll survive--if the hospital itself will survive in its current state. I don&#039 ; t know what&#039 ; ll happen. CRANE: Let me see if I understand this. So, Jewish Hospital is now KentuckyOne. BRONNER: Correct. CRANE: And, the U of L hospital is separate, or--? BRONNER: Separate, but again, they&#039 ; re in a similar--same contracts, and they staff and work there-- CRANE: --with KentuckyOne-- BRONNER: --with KentuckyOne. But U of L still has their own hospital that they need to keep filled, so it&#039 ; s kind of a secondary place to be. CRANE: And so, what hospital do you practice out of, or do you utilize? BRONNER: We use our own surgery center for the last sixteen years for outpatients, and then we practice on Audubon Hospital--Norton Audubon Hospital. That&#039 ; s the only place we go, and we went from--when I started, we went to seven hospitals a day. Now, we go to one. CRANE: Jewish Hospital has, uh, made some changes over time, huh? BRONNER: They have, big changes. I don&#039 ; t think all good. CRANE: Um, tell me about any Jewish-related, unfriendly relationships you have had over the years as a practicing physician. BRONNER: Unfriendly relationships in the way of-- CRANE: Well, initially, if Jewish Hospital was established in the 1900s, 1903, in order to give Jewish physicians a place to practice, um, obviously that&#039 ; s changed, but, um, has there been any reason or any incidences that have made you feel uncomfortable, or that have caused you any concern as a Jewish physician practicing in any of the hospitals or any incidents, because--because in fact you were Jewish? BRONNER: I don&#039 ; t think so--as I started, there was--there was ever any concern relative to being in a certain hospital, and I practiced in Catholic hospitals, practiced in non-sectarian hospitals. I don&#039 ; t think I really had a problem. Maybe it was--maybe it was my specialty, which was lacking, um, and every so often I&#039 ; d have a patient say something about those Jewish doctors, and I had to tell them that their doctor was one of them, which made them somewhat red in the face, and apologetic, and most of them still came back, uh, so it didn&#039 ; t seem to make much difference, as long as you were a good doctor. Um, the doctor--the medical staff at Jewish Hospital, when I started, was not just Jewish doctors, it was pretty much across the board. Um, but I think one of the things that&#039 ; s changed greatly is, there was a very strong Jewish community bias towards going to Jewish Hospital. If you were Jewish, you wanted to go to Jewish Hospital, and now, if you&#039 ; re Jewish, that&#039 ; s probably one of the last places you want to go, unless your doctor goes there and they want you to go there. Frequently, even, with the hospital system, you won&#039 ; t see your doctor, so why go there? Um, most of--a lot of my patients live out in the East End, they want to go to the East End hospitals. They&#039 ; ll go usually wherever I direct them. If I want them at Audubon, which is somewhat midtown, they&#039 ; ll go there, um, but to get someone to go to Jewish, I don&#039 ; t--I have more people now say that they don&#039 ; t want to go there, um, but again, the Jewish community did--they all wanted to be there, and so that was something that was very specific, that&#039 ; s drastically changed over the years. Um, but from the standpoint of my practice, I really never felt any bias. If there was any, I wasn&#039 ; t aware of it. CRANE: Why do you think they don&#039 ; t want to go there now? BRONNER: Um, I think it&#039 ; s location. Uh, they don&#039 ; t want to go downtown, and in reality, in the last few years, with the bridge building, and street changes, um, parking, um, failure to upgrade in to single bedrooms--you know, you really--we&#039 ; re in a society where if I go to the hospital, I like to have privacy--I don&#039 ; t want to share a room with somebody whose twenty family members are traipsing across me, and spending the night making noise in my room. Um, they aren&#039 ; t very tolerant of that, and they want to go someplace where they don&#039 ; t have to have that, so, they really--you know, they fail to keep up with the times, and their answer was they couldn&#039 ; t run the hospital if they took their numbers down. Um, but they really couldn&#039 ; t run the hospital if they didn&#039 ; t. Um, they still have--they still have very ill patients. The problem is, with payment system as it is today, you lose money on very ill patients, so, very--I mean, we went through the transplants, and the heart transplants, and took care of them. Um, you lost a lot of money, but the fact that you could be on the national news every night, people wanted to go to Jewish Hospital then. That doesn&#039 ; t happen anymore. CRANE: I see. How has being raised Jewish, or how has--impacted your work as a physician, or has it? BRONNER: I think it impacted my work in that I wanted to work at Jewish Hospital. Uh, I would say that would be--that would be part of the reason. Uh, otherwise, I don&#039 ; t know why I would have picked there as my primary-- CRANE: Your mother didn&#039 ; t want a Jewish doctor? BRONNER: Well, that may be, yeah, that may be. She may have been whispering, &quot ; Go to Jewish Hospital.&quot ; I know she gave me doctor kits from the time I could walk, so, um, I think I did it with my kids. It--it ultimately worked with some of them. But, yeah. But, so--and the stepdaughter, so--one got stuck on dogs, so she ended up being the vet, so, but, but ultimately, um, you know, I uh--I think probably, um, it was what you were supposed to be growing up, and I think I wanted to be part of that community, but at the same time, it didn&#039 ; t really matter what community I was part of, I just wanted to do my job and do it well. CRANE: We talked a lot about different things, but I want to make sure that I&#039 ; ve given you every opportunity to share the stories that you hold dear. So, what have we left out, and what would you like to share--something that you were not specifically asked about? BRONNER: Oh, gosh, give me an area. You know, I mean, that&#039 ; s-- CRANE: I&#039 ; m not going to do that. BRONNER: You had to lead me into that one, because honestly, I, uh-- CRANE: Is there anything, um--any story that you would like to tell that we haven&#039 ; t covered that&#039 ; s important to you? BRONNER: I&#039 ; m sure there are many. I mean, I&#039 ; m not helping you here at this point, but, um, you know, I&#039 ; m sure there are many, but, uh, I can&#039 ; t come up with anything specific at this moment. CRANE: Looking back, is there anything that you would change about your relationship to Judaism? Other than joining a different club. BRONNER: Um, yeah--I think I&#039 ; d like to be a member of multiple clubs, as opposed to one. I think that was--I think my relationship, uh, broached early--I-- I think that my parents were probably wrong, they should have been more assertive in, uh--in pushing me toward being bar mitzvah, I think that might have given me a better understanding, and more involvement in, uh, in some parts of Judaism as I was younger, but again, I went to Reform synagogue, most of it was in English, I didn&#039 ; t see a reason to learn Hebrew, um, and, you know, if you go to other synagogues, it was, uh--it was, uh, you better know a little Hebrew. But, again, the Jewish prayers, I knew all those by rote. I didn&#039 ; t have to be able to read Hebrew to--to now those things, and to do those things, and I spent plenty of time in temple, but I think that--I think probably one of the things that, uh, would--uh, would be to be bar mitzvah. I think, uh, that&#039 ; s one of the things probably I would regret today. CRANE: You mean to have a bar mitzvah ceremony? BRONNER: No. I could care less about the ceremony. The ceremonies were nothing--the ceremony at the synagogue, I mean--when you say ceremony, it&#039 ; s become too social for me. Um, it was, I&#039 ; m going to study and have a ceremony and then I&#039 ; m going to have a big party. Uh, the parties--you know, it was a family thing, it was a badge of honor to do, and it was a religious honor to do. Uh, I&#039 ; m not sure it&#039 ; s the same today as it was then, so, that I would not like to do--uh, to study and learn more, I would like to do that. But I think we get wiser with age, too. CRANE: That&#039 ; s true. Mark, it&#039 ; s been a pleasure, and on behalf of this project, I thank you for your time and your support. BRONNER: Well, thank you. CRANE: And, as always, it&#039 ; s been lovely. [End of interview.] All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh422_jk041_bronner_ohm.xml 2016oh422_jk041_bronner_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh422_jk041_bronner_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mark Bronner, November 10, 2016 Description An account of the resource Mark Bronner discusses in detail his family genealogy, from his ancestors in Russia who immigrated to the U.S. and settled in Louisville, to later members of his family who held prominent positions in Louisville. He talks about his own childhood in Louisville and how it affected his Jewish identity. He talks about his education, his participation in Jewish clubs and social activities, and how the community has changed since his childhood. He discusses his college experience, medical school, his work as a gastroenterologist, and Louisville Jewish Hospital. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016oh422_jk041 Subject The topic of the resource Genealogy Holidays--Kentucky Religion Families. Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Louisville (Ky.) Childhood Education--Kentucky--Louisville College students--Religious life College students--Social conditions Jews--Identity. Medical education Physicians--Kentucky Hospitals--Administration Hospitals--Kentucky Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/91f716a3794815b2d260e781480c42e5.jpeg 90f72f518da31b4550b672593f66ccc0 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Janice W. Fernheimer Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Tom Block Interview Keyword Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest I. W. Bernheim I.W. Bernheim Jewish businesspeople OHMS Object Text 5.2 2016oh406_jk040 Interview with Tom Block, October 21, 2016 2016oh406_jk040 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Forests and forestry. Arboretums. Families. Genealogy Jews--Kentucky Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest I. W. Bernheim I.W. Bernheim Jewish businesspeople Tom Block Janice W. Fernheimer 1:|11(15)|42(6)|57(16)|73(1)|109(11)|146(3)|168(11)|179(4)|218(15)|232(14)|244(1)|282(14)|307(4)|316(12) 0 Vimeo video &lt ; iframe allowFullScreen frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; height=&quot ; 564&quot ; mozallowfullscreen src=&quot ; https://player.vimeo.com/video/253342664&quot ; webkitAllowFullScreen width=&quot ; 640&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 0 Trip to Bernheim Forest Where, where are you gonna take us? Tom Block and Janice Fernheimer are driving on their way to their first destination at the Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest. Block describes the extent of the forest, including its total 14,000 acres of land, 600 of which is part of the formally maintained arboretum. He also mentions the work that the Frederick Law Olmsted Firm did to organize and develop the arboretum since its founding by I.W. Bernheim. Arboretum ; Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest ; Bernheim Forest ; Frederick Law Olmsted Firm ; I. W. Bernheim Arboretums. ; Forests and forestry. 37.5547, -85.391 17 Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest https://bernheim.org/general-info/history/ History of the establishment of Bernheim Forest 116 Viewing of the forest from the Canopy Tree Walk So, we're now in the forest. Block has now taken the interview to the Canopy Tree Walk overlooking Bingham Valley, named after Barry Bingham. He starts to explain the extent of the damage that occurred in the forest before I. W. Bernheim came into the picture, including the discovery of iron ore deposits. Block also mentions the many trees that inhabit the forest and the first sighting of a black bear, nicknamed Bernie. Arboretum ; Barry Bingham ; Beech trees ; Bingham Valley ; Black bears ; Canopy Tree Walk ; Hardwood forests ; Hickory trees ; I. W. Bernheim ; Iron ore ; Iron Ore Trail ; Maple trees ; Oak trees ; Old-growth forests ; Poplar trees ; Smelters ; Sycamore trees Arboretums. ; Forests and forestry. 37.5547, -85.391 17 Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest https://bernheim.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ctw06.jpg Picture of the Canopy Tree Walk 348 I.W. Bernheim's gravesite Now we're gonna go down to the gravesite. As the interview begins to move to I.W. Bernheim's gravesite, Block explains that the park is trying to become more handicap accessible, citing an instance with a group from the Jewish Community Center in Louisville. As they arrive at the gravesite, he points out the significance of the towers representing both the Jewish synagogue and the Christian church, and describes his great-grandfather as being ecumenical. Barry Bingham ; Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest ; Christian churches ; Earth Measure ; Ecumenical ; Fanny Drefuss ; I. W. Bernheim ; Isaac Wolfe Bernheim ; Jewish synagogues ; Matt Weir ; Meadows ; Milkweed ; Monarch butterflies ; Olmsted ; Pollinators ; Sculptures ; WHAS ; Wildflowers Arboretums. ; Families. ; Forests and forestry. ; Genealogy ; Jews--Kentucky 37.5547, -85.391 17 Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest https://bernheim.org/programs/arts-in-nature-program/sculpture-in-the-arboretum/ Sculpture in the Arboretum 762 The Quiet Garden So here we are at the area called &quot ; The Quiet Garden.&quot ; At the last site of the interview, the Quiet Garden, Block shows a plaque dedicated by I.W. Burnham II to his father Bertram Bernheim. Bertram named his son after I.W. Bernheim, making him the Second. However, when Berheim II started becoming part of the banking industry, it was suggested to him to change his name, thus the last name Burnham. Block points out on the plaque that Burnham never removed his title as the Second, even though there was no I.W. Burnham the First. Bertram Bernheim ; I. W. Bernheim ; I. W. Burnham, II ; Quiet Garden Arboretums. ; Families. ; Forests and forestry. ; Genealogy ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jews--Kentucky 37.917700, -85.669480 17 The Quiet Garden in Bernheim Forest interview This extended interview with Tom Block takes place during a tour of the Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest, founded by his great-grandfather, Isaac W. Bernheim. Block first describes the extent of the Forest, which includes 600 acres of managed arboretum, while the rest of the 14,000 acres of land is “all natural forest”. The history before Bernheim developed the land was that of deforestation in two instances: the first being the settlement of Europeans in the area, and the second being the discovery of iron ore deposits [when?], leaving the land almost desolate before Bernheim came in to revitalize it {when}. He hired the Frederick Law Olmsted Firm to manage the architecture and landscape plans, and he officially established the Forest in 1929. Block mentions this[ref?] all from the Canopy Tree Walk overlooking the area called Bingham Valley, named after Barry Bingham, one of the first investors in Bernheim Forest. Block then moves the interview to I.W. Bernheim’s gravesite, explaining the significance of the sculptures Bernheim commissioned for his grave. One tower represents the Jewish synagogue, while the second represents the Christian church, showing the importance of equality in both religions. The interview ended in The Quiet Garden, where a plaque was placed by I.W. Burnham II, in honor of one of I.W. Bernheim’s sons, Bertram. FERNHEIMER: Where, where are you gonna take us? BLOCK: So we are now at Bernheim Forest, in--outside of Louisville. And Bernheim Forest has fourteen thousand acres, and of the fourteen thousand acres, six hundred are formal arboretum, designed by the Olmsted Firm, and the other nearly fourteen thousand acres are a natural area. So what we&#039 ; re doing now is we&#039 ; re gonna leave the arboretum, and we&#039 ; re going to go into the forest. And then--you have to put your seatbelt--we have to--you have to fasten your seatbelt. You&#039 ; re gonna hear this beeping noise. We&#039 ; re going to go into the natural area. As I tell people, you can see, when you leave, the arboretum, which is all maintained, and enter a natural area, which is not maintained. But you--there&#039 ; ll be a trailhead where we get off the trail--off--out of the car, too. We&#039 ; ll talk about. [Pause in recording.] FERNHEIMER: To think about how th--there is a, a bigger Jewish story-- BLOCK: --so I guess-- FERNHEIMER: --hiding (??)-- BLOCK: --his family went from Spain to Greece? FERNHEIMER: Um, I&#039 ; m not sure how they landed in Greece, but I&#039 ; m guessing somewhere along the line, there were descendants--they were in Rhodes, Greece, and then they ended up mostly in Alabama. -----------(??)---------- BLOCK: So we&#039 ; re talking--being filmed? FERNHEIMER: Yeah. It&#039 ; s so beautiful in the fall. BLOCK: Uh-huh. No, it is. So we&#039 ; re now in the forest. So as I said, we have over fourteen thousand acres. About six hundred acres is in an arboretum, which is maintained and formally planned, and then twelve thousand acres or more are in the forest. And this is the forest. So we are now at the end of what we call a canopy tree walk-- FERNHEIMER: --hmm-- BLOCK: --and at the end, we&#039 ; re seventy-five feet above the forest floor. We actually have a trail that winds around. You can actually walk right underneath the canopy tree walk, and so you can see the forest from the floor, and up here above the floor. So Bernheim is all the land you see. So all that ridge, and then far up there to the radio tower, and then mainly way behind us is where most of our twelve thousand acres are. And this land was actually harvested twice. First, the Europeans came and took the trees down for their fields and their houses and everything. Then the forest started to grow again, and they discovered iron ore. And in fact, this trail is called the Iron Ore Trail, and they took down the forest again so that we could--they could run their smelters. And so the trees you see now--so when my great-grandfather came here, this was pretty destroyed, bad land, and now we&#039 ; ve been maintaining it for ninety years, and so the trees are ninety to a hundred and ten years old. The naturalists tell me that, to be an old-growth forest, you have to be at least a hundred and fifty years old. So we&#039 ; re very excited that we&#039 ; ll be coming--we can see the day when this would be an old-growth forest. FERNHEIMER: When, when you move into that next level of old-growth forest, what does that bring, or-- BLOCK: --it just brings a level of, of stewardship. It just means that we have--from our point of view at the forest, I think we feel it demonstrates that we are--we have been good stewards of this land. Um, it&#039 ; s been in the local papers here in Louisville, here in the end of 2016, that, um, we&#039 ; ve had our first sighting of a brack--black bear. FERNHEIMER: I&#039 ; ve been following this in the news. BLOCK: And so the naturalists tell me that they--they&#039 ; re so excited, because black bears require a very good, sustainable environment to live in, and so we think that&#039 ; s the best sign of what a good steward we&#039 ; ve been of this fourteen thousand acres, that it can now attract and sustain a black bear. FERNHEIMER: And I know that there was a little bit of a contest involved with naming him? BLOCK: Right, right. FERNHEIMER: Where did--where did-- BLOCK: --so-- FERNHEIMER: --he end up-- BLOCK: --so-- FERNHEIMER: --is it he? BLOCK: It&#039 ; s a he-- FERNHEIMER: --okay. BLOCK: --and we can tell that. So we&#039 ; ve spotted--he was first spotted by a visitor down, um, by--in the arboretum, and now we have trail cameras all over the--in the forest, embedded in the forest, and we have spotted him in there. And those pictures were of high enough resolution that we could tell it was a he, and the winning name was Bernie. FERNHEIMER: Bernie. All right. Pretty good. BLOCK: Mr. Bernheim&#039 ; s name--nickname was actually Ike, from the Isaac. But, but anyway, that&#039 ; s--this is one of my favorite spots, because you have this beautiful view, and then the valley there is actually called Bingham Valley, because Barry Bingham of the Louisville Bingham family was a huge supporter and former president of the forest. FERNHEIMER: Oh. BLOCK: And so we named this--it&#039 ; s one of the few named areas in the forest, and we call it Bingham Valley. FERNHEIMER: And can you tell me a little bit about the trees that we&#039 ; re seeing-- BLOCK: --so the trees-- FERNHEIMER: --right there? BLOCK: --it&#039 ; s a hardwood forest. Most of the trees are either oak, maple, beech, hickory, and sycamore. So if you can identify tho--and, and, and, um, poplars. So if you can identify those six trees, you can probably identify eighty percent of all the trees in the forest. Now we&#039 ; re gonna go down to the gravesite. [Pause in recording.] F: Rolling. BLOCK: So this looks like a beech tree, uh, or a hickory tree, and you can tell from the bark and the leaf. FERNHEIMER: What is significant about the bark? BLOCK: Oh, so the--uh, the leaf looks very much like the beech, but it&#039 ; s--the bark is bark, and if we saw a beech, it would be very smooth. FERNHEIMER: Huh, okay. BLOCK: And this, I think, is an oak, and it looks like a white oak. And then this is a maple, because it&#039 ; s changing leaves already. I can just see. FERNHEIMER: The orange ones? BLOCK: Yeah, yeah. FERNHEIMER: It&#039 ; s beautiful. We have a big maple in our front yard. BLOCK: Uh-huh. This is -----------(??). So this is the, the trail to my great-grandfather&#039 ; s gravesite, and one of the things we&#039 ; ve done just in the past two years is we&#039 ; ve made it handicap-accessible. So this trail used to have steps, and now the steps aren&#039 ; t here. And actually, just a few weeks ago, we had the young adults group from the Jewish Community Center here in Louisville come, and there was one of the, uh, young people participating in that group who was handicapped and had an electric wheelchair, and so--unfortunately, we don&#039 ; t yet have a trail, but he could come and join us, and we have a wonderful picture of him sitting with, with us up at the top of this, uh, trail. And then we&#039 ; ve, we&#039 ; ve planted some nice specimen plants around here, too. FERNHEIMER: And these are all native Kentucky plants? BLOCK: No, some--basically native Kentucky. Some--they aren&#039 ; t all native. So again, this is our trail where we took out all the steps, and when we get to the top, we&#039 ; ll see both my great-grandfather&#039 ; s gravesite and then the beautiful meadow. So again, Isaac Wolfe Bernheim--you can see that his wife is there with the other tombstone, but no-- FERNHEIMER: --no recognition. BLOCK: No recognition that she&#039 ; s here. FERNHEIMER: Is her name on the tombstone at least? BLOCK: I think so. FERNHEIMER: (laughs) What was the name of his first wife? BLOCK: Fanny. That&#039 ; s-- FERNHEIMER: --Fanny-- BLOCK: --who&#039 ; s here. FERNHEIMER: Fanny. That was Fanny Dreyfus? BLOCK: Yes. FERNHEIMER: And then he later married her sister? BLOCK: Right. FERNHEIMER: Right? BLOCK: But that--but there&#039 ; s nothing about her. I don&#039 ; t, don&#039 ; t see anything anywhere about her. FERNHEIMER: So they weren&#039 ; t married for very long? BLOCK: No, no, no. So this is where my great-grandfather&#039 ; s buried. He commissioned this, uh, piece of sculpture, and he was, again, so very ecumenical, so one of these symbolizes a Christian church, and the other symbolizes a Jewish synagogue, and it&#039 ; s part of his story. And then both he and his wife are buried here, but again, as we were talking about, the story was Isaac and not Issac and Fanny, and so his--only his name is here, but you can see two grave markers, and so they&#039 ; re buried next to each other. So this is our first piece of art that he commissioned, and out in the field you can see our most recent piece of art, which is called Earth Measure. Uh--so this is--if you think of--are you recording? FERNHEIMER: Yeah. BLOCK: So if you think of Olmsted, we saw ponds, and we have ponds, but if you think of Central Park, which is probably his most famous work, there&#039 ; s the meadows, and then there&#039 ; s the rambles and the hills, and this is sort of those principles, super-sized. So we have a thirty-five-acre meadow, and we have the hills, and then to the side, which you can&#039 ; t see from this spot, we have our, our bodies of water. And then you can see, in the landscape, our, our newest piece of sculpture, which was done by a local artist named Matt Weir, a young man who&#039 ; s in town, and it&#039 ; s dedicated to Barry Bingham, and there&#039 ; s a big hole, which is supposed to be a camera lens, as Barry was a photographer. And there&#039 ; s a dish, a rock that&#039 ; s dug out like, like a satellite dish, because Barry, as head of WHAS, the local TV station that the Bingham family owned, went into satellite technology for their broadcasting. And then the meadow, we&#039 ; re trying to do several things. One, it&#039 ; s--our official title is Bernheim Re--Arboretum and Research Forest, so one of the research things we do here is about a quarter of, of the meadow, we burn each year. And as you look at it from here, you can see it&#039 ; s all meadow and very few trees. If you think about it, if nature just did its thing here, this would all be forest. So this is the arboretum. This is where we manage the land, and here what we&#039 ; re trying to manage is making it into this beautiful meadow. We&#039 ; re also planting pollinators and milkweed, and hopefully this will become a, a way station for the monarch butterfly, which is endangered, as their habitat is being taken away, and we would like to make this part of the stopping point as they fly from Mexico to the northern United States and Canada. And so we have--and we have gotten some supporters to help us put wildflowers in it, and you can begin to see the beautiful grasses, the beautiful flowers, and it&#039 ; s one of my favorite spots at Bernheim. [Pause in recording.] FERNHEIMER: Okay. BLOCK: We are in Indian Hills. FERNHEIMER: Okay, sure. BLOCK: Right off of Brownsboro Road. So we are very--so the--you know, we--when we lived in New York, we could never afford a nice house. My wife is an artist and she could never have her studio. FERNHEIMER: And now you&#039 ; ve got-- BLOCK: --and now we--right-- FERNHEIMER: --this beautiful house-- BLOCK: --yeah-- FERNHEIMER: --lovely neighborhood. BLOCK: Yeah. So we are very happy here. And our house in Florida is very nice, but it&#039 ; s very small compared to--I mean, it&#039 ; s a small house. But it&#039 ; s very, very well-designed. And it&#039 ; s two blocks from the ocean. FERNHEIMER: Wow. BLOCK: Surrounded by a nature preserve. FERNHEIMER: -----------(??). BLOCK: So the staff has done a won--so we had our, our-- FERNHEIMER: But I mean, like, I.W. and his--and -----------(??) were they-- BLOCK: --no. Oh, no, they were--they-- FERNHEIMER: --interred here or were they interred somewhere else -----------(??)? BLOCK: They were originally interred in Cave Hill. FERNHEIMER: Okay. That&#039 ; s what I thought. -----------(??)----------- it&#039 ; s really beautiful. BLOCK: So here we are at the area called the Quiet Garden, and it&#039 ; s one of my f--another one of my favorite spots. And over here, in the story of Bertram had the son he named after Mr. Bernheim, Isaac W. Bernheim II, who changed his name to I--Isaac I.W. Burnham. So the gravestone says I.W. Burnham II, and if you come over here--so this is the water. This is our lake. So again, fitting into the Olmsted plans of combining meadows and hills and water, this is our main water feature. And here&#039 ; s a plaque where Mr. Burnham dedicated this garden to his father, and it says, &quot ; Placed here in memory of his--by his son, I.W. Burnham II.&quot ; But of course, we know there was no I.W. Burnham the First. So it&#039 ; s really because he&#039 ; s named after our founder, my great-grandfather, I.W. Bernheim, but it says here--and you can see his father was Bertram Bernheim. So the only person who changed his name was Burnham as--but, um, Isaac&#039 ; s other son, Palmer, also changed his name to Burnham. So there are Burnham descendants from Palmer, and there are Burnham descendants from, uh, from, from, from Bertram. [End of interview.] All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh406_jk040_block_ohm.xml 2016oh406_jk040_block_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh406_jk040_block_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Tom Block, October 21, 2016 Description An account of the resource This extended interview with Tom Block takes place during a tour of the Bernheim Arboretum and Research Forest, founded by his great-grandfather, Isaac W. Bernheim. Block first describes the extent of the Forest, which includes 600 acres of managed arboretum, while the rest of the 14,000 acres of land is “all natural forest”. The history before Bernheim developed the land was that of deforestation in two instances: the first being the settlement of Europeans in the area, and the second being the discovery of iron ore deposits [when?], leaving the land almost desolate before Bernheim came in to revitalize it {when}. He hired the Frederick Law Olmsted Firm to manage the architecture and landscape plans, and he officially established the Forest in 1929. Block mentions this[ref?] all from the Canopy Tree Walk overlooking the area called Bingham Valley, named after Barry Bingham, one of the first investors in Bernheim Forest. Block then moves the interview to I.W. Bernheim’s gravesite, explaining the significance of the sculptures Bernheim commissioned for his grave. One tower represents the Jewish synagogue, while the second represents the Christian church, showing the importance of equality in both religions. The interview ended in The Quiet Garden, where a plaque was placed by I.W. Burnham II, in honor of one of I.W. Bernheim’s sons, Bertram. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016oh406_jk040 Subject The topic of the resource Forests and forestry. Arboretums. Families. Genealogy Jews--Kentucky Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://www.nunncenter.net/jewishkentucky/files/original/1ced90e94c87a761770f000c82bb5722.jpeg 0e60bd314ee12b1dda57bc82974ac987 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oral Histories Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Carol Ely Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mark Switow Interview Keyword Standard Club Standard Country Club Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence (JHFE) College students--Social conditions Universities and colleges--Administration. Universities and colleges--Finance Immigrants--Kentucky Holidays--Kentucky Hospitals--Administration OHMS Object Text 5.2 2016oh403_jk038 Interview with Mark Switow, September 20, 2016 2016oh403_jk038 jk Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries (Exhibit) Genealogy Jewish businesspeople Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Religion Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Louisville (Ky.) Childhood Discrimination. Families. Jews--Identity. Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Judaism Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Standard Club Standard Country Club Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence (JHFE) College students--Social conditions Universities and colleges--Administration. Universities and colleges--Finance Immigrants--Kentucky Holidays--Kentucky Hospitals--Administration Mark Switow Carol Ely 1:|30(13)|49(9)|88(14)|111(5)|129(15)|156(13)|180(3)|195(7)|219(5)|253(7)|279(3)|303(2)|327(9)|355(14)|369(10)|390(2)|407(6)|427(11)|442(11)|461(2)|485(10)|499(13)|520(3)|536(8)|568(2)|595(5)|616(6)|645(5)|669(9)|699(2)|716(7)|729(9)|745(9)|763(3)|781(13)|796(1)|812(2)|828(4)|852(7)|878(3)|902(1)|921(3)|935(11)|952(18) 0 Vimeo video &lt ; iframe allowFullScreen frameborder=&quot ; 0&quot ; height=&quot ; 564&quot ; mozallowfullscreen src=&quot ; https://player.vimeo.com/video/253332751&quot ; webkitAllowFullScreen width=&quot ; 640&quot ; &gt ; &lt ; /iframe&gt ; 0 Family background and migration to Kentucky Okay, I'm Carol Ely. I'm here with Mark Switow for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, sponsored by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. Switow, born in 1958 in Louisville to Maxine Rudman Switow and Irvine Bloom &quot ; Sonny&quot ; Switow. His siblings are Arlene and Michael. He discusses how his family came to Kentucky and how he learned more about his familial origins after reading his great-grandfather's autobiography about being a Russian immigrant who moved around the U.S. in the 19teens until settling in Paducah, Kentucky and then Louisville. Great-grandparents Michael and Annie Switow arrived in the U.S. in the 19teens. His mother's family is from northeast U.S. 1910s ; Annie Switow ; Arlene Switow ; Autobiography ; Great-grandfathers ; Irvine Bloom &quot ; Sonny&quot ; Switow ; Maxine Rudman Switow ; Michael Switow ; Russian ; Siblings Emigration and immigration. ; Families. ; Genealogy ; Immigrants--Kentucky ; Paducah (Ky.) 37.072222, -88.6275 17 Paducah (Ky.) 233 Family involvement in the entertainment and concession business Well, one of your ancestors was an important part of establishing an industry in Louisville. Switow discusses his family's influence on the movie theater industry in Southern Indiana and Kentucky. His family founded and ran the Vogue Theater, The South Park, Rialto Theater, and The Kentucky Theatre, among others. He mentions the resulting theater food concessions business his father started which expanded to parks and sports settings. Mark Switow worked in his father's business as a youth but his father advised him against the business when Switow was 21. He explains why the Switow family is no longer involved with this industry. His father sold the business to Eddy Goldberg. Cousins, the Saag family, took over part of the movie theater business. Candy ; Coca-Cola ; Coke ; Concessions ; Dads ; Downtown ; Drive-in theaters ; Eddy Goldberg ; Fathers ; Grandfathers ; Great-uncles ; Movies ; Multiplexes ; Paper goods ; Popcorn ; Rialto Theater ; Saag family ; Soda ; Southern Indiana ; The Kentucky Theatre ; The South Park ; Theaters ; Vogue Theater Jewish businesspeople ; Lexington (Ky.). ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Small business--Kentucky ; Small business--Ownership 38.044, -84.495 17 The Kentucky Theatre, located in downtown Lexington (Ky.) http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/340 Some photos, a brief description, and the location of the Vogue Theater in Louisville is available in the link. 611 Family involvement at Adath Jeshurun and transition into the Temple Well, to, um, st, stay in the past a little bit, um, your great-gran, grandfather also was very involved in Adath Jeshurun synagogue. Switow discusses how his grandfather was very involved at Adath Jeshurun, as well as his parents. His father was on the board of trustees and his mother was involved in the sisterhood while also participating with the National Council of Jewish Women. He mentions that his interfaith marriage resulted in he and his family moving membership to the Temple in 2010. Adath Israel Temple ; Adath Jeshurun ; Bar mitzvahs ; Bat mitzvahs ; Board of Trustees ; Fathers ; Grandfathers ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Mothers ; National Council of Jewish Women ; Religious conversion ; Religious services ; Sisterhood ; Sunday school ; Switow Chapel ; Synagogues Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Marriage ; Religion 38.228, -85.684 17 Adath Jeshurun Synagogue in Louisville (Ky.) 818 Growing up in a Jewish family And, uh, in your family, growing up, um, what was your Jewish life like? Switow discusses his routine as child. He mentions Friday dinners at his grandparents', lighting candles, and having kiddush downtown. Every Sunday his family met at Mario's Pizza. Saturday morning they went to synagogue for Shabbat services. He was also involved with the Jewish Community Center and youth clubs for sports especially. Brothers ; Candles ; Downtown ; Grandparents ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Kiddush ; Sisters ; Sports ; Synagogues ; Youth clubs Childhood ; Families. ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225404, -85.650386 17 Jewish Community Center in Louisville (Ky.) 923 Involvement in the Jewish Community Center when growing up Right. The clubs were very important in that era-- Switow discusses his time spent at the Jewish Community Center and how it served as place for Jewish kids from all over the city to gather. He mentions his involvement in the sports clubs at the center including football, softball, and basketball. Atherton High School ; Athletics ; Ballard High School ; Basketball ; Clubs ; Football ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Socials ; Softball ; Sunday school ; Sundays ; Wagner High School Childhood ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225404, -85.650386 17 Jewish Community Center in Louisville (Ky.) 1028 Friendships and division among Jewish kids Do you feel like your circle of friends was mostly, um, Jewish kids that you knew from, uh, from the clubs? Switow discusses how there was a division between Jewish students from the East End that went to the Standard Country Club and Ballard High School, and those from the Highlands that went to the Jewish Community Center. Switow mentions how his involvement at these centers gained him many Jewish friends, but he still had non-Jewish friends from school and sports clubs. Ballard High School ; Conflicts ; East End ; Friends ; Highlands ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Standard Country Club Childhood ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.283439, -85.625243 17 Ballard High School in Louisville (Ky.) 1075 Standard Country Club and club discrimination Uh, you mentioned the Standard Club. Can you talk a little bit more about what it was like to be a kid and have access to that-- Switow discusses how the Standard Country Club was started in 1875 in response to the antisemitism often occurring in other country clubs. He talks about how the club started with just golfing. He tells a story about his uncle's golf prowess. Sam, Harry, and Fred Switow helped move the Club to its present location and expanded it from a golf course to include more facilities. The Club existed because of discrimination against Jews in the past that limited professional and social access. Anti-Semitism ; Country clubs ; Fred Switow ; Golf ; Golf courses ; Harry Switow ; Sam Switow ; Standard Club ; Standard Country Club ; Uncles Discrimination. ; Families. ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.293229, -85.597668 17 Standard Country Club, Louisville (Ky.) http://www.standardclub.net/ The Standard Country Club's official website, which includes information about the club's history, location, and facilities. 1197 Preservation and the future of Standard Country Club I'm going to jump ahead in time, and then we'll go back again. Switow discusses his hopes for the Standard Country Club to serve as a center for the Jewish community. He mentions the facilities and activities available there including golf courses, swimming, and fishing Community centers ; Debts ; Fishing ; Golf ; Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence ; Preservation ; Standard Club ; Standard Country Club ; Swimming ; Tennis Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Louisville (Ky.)--Buildings, structures, etc. 38.293229, -85.597668 17 Standard Country Club, Louisville (Ky.) http://www.standardclub.net/ The Standard Country Club's official website, which includes information about the club's history, location, and facilities. 1354 College and Jewish life in South Carolina and at the University of Kentucky So now we're going to talk about you again, and go back in time. So, uh, where did you go to college? Switow discusses how he was a &quot ; C&quot ; college student who first attended school in South Carolina in 1976-77 and proceeded to transfer to the University of Kentucky. He discusses how UK and other colleges in Kentucky lacked a significant Jewish population which resulted in Kentucky Jewish students going to out of state schools such as Indiana University, which had strong Jewish student organizations. He acknowledges the increase in Jewish student activity at University of Kentucky now. Campus life ; Hillel ; Indiana University ; South Carolina ; University of Kentucky College environment ; College students--Conduct of life. ; College students--Religious life ; College students--Social conditions ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Lexington. ; Universities and colleges. 38.033333, -84.5 17 University of Kentucky http://kyhillel.org/ The Kentucky Hillel website. Kentucky Hillel is a Jewish student organization at the University of Kentucky. 1476 Involvement with state colleges in Kentucky and introducing the Heritage Fund Have you stayed involved with UK, and, uh, you, you seem familiar with what's going on there now. Are you-- Swtiow discusses being on the Advisory Council at University of Kentucky's College of Arts and Sciences, as well as being on a board at the University of Louisville. He mentions his role in introducing the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence to these colleges and his hope to introduce this fund to other colleges in the state because it's important to introduce Judaism to those who don't know about Jews. Board of trustees ; Grants ; Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence (JHFE) ; Kentucky ; Morehead University ; Proposals ; Scholarships ; University of Kentucky ; University of Louisville ; Western Kentucky University College environment ; College students--Religious life ; Jews--Identity. ; Religion ; Universities and colleges--Administration. ; Universities and colleges--Finance ; Universities and colleges. 38.033333, -84.5 17 University of Kentucky https://jewishheritagefund.com/ The website for the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. 1591 Interfaith marriage and family life Um, okay, so when and how did you meet your wife? Switow discusses meeting his wife, Tammy, having an interfaith marriage, and being a father and step-father to Tammy's children from her first marriage. He mentions how he and his wife chose to raise their children Ryan, Sam, and Katie as Jewish and continue to celebrate both Jewish and Christian holidays. Switow describes himself as a &quot ; C&amp ; ampE Christian&quot ; - Christmas and Easter but Jewish in practice. &quot ; C&amp ; ampE Christian&quot ; ; &quot ; Convenient Jews&quot ; ; Bar mitzvahs ; Bat mitzvahs ; Candles ; Children ; Christmas ; Easter ; Family ; Fathers ; Hanukkah ; Husbands ; Katie ; Passover ; Rosh Hashana ; Ryan ; Sam ; Seder ; Tammy ; Wife Families. ; Holidays--Kentucky ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Judaism ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 17 1725 Affiliation with Jewish Hospital, negotiations with Catholic Health Initiatives, and contribution to Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence Um, switching topics, now. Uh, your family's been affiliated with Jewish Hospital for a long time too, I believe. Switow discusses his family's involvement with the Jewish Hospital (Sam, Harry, and Fred) and his position on the Board of Trustees from 1986. He discusses current responsibilities for fundraising and grants. He discusses the hospital's merger with Catholic Health Initiatives and the similarities in initiatives between the two medical centers. He mentions his role in establishing the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence through merger negotiations that allowed millions of dollars to go into the Heritage Fund. As a result, the Fund supports grants to medical research and Jewish initiatives. He explains ethical religious directives (ERDs) and agreement between the Jewish and Catholic foundation boards on 78 of 80 ERDs. Abortion ; Catholic Health Initiatives ; Ethical religious directives ; Foundation boards ; Fred Switow ; Fund-raising ; Grants ; Harry Switow ; Healthcare ; Hospitals ; Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence ; Jewish Hospital ; KentuckyOne Health ; Medical research ; Mergers ; Negotiations ; Saint Joseph Health System (SJHS) ; Sam Switow ; Stem cell research Catholicism ; Families. ; Hospitals--Administration ; Hospitals--Kentucky ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.kentuckyonehealth.org/body.cfm?id=18&amp ; action=detail&amp ; ref=174 Information about the merger between Jewish Hospital and Catholic Health Initiatives from the KentuckyOne Health news page. 2057 Impact of the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence and its future And, uh, how do you see the fund having an impact on the community in the future, and what, what are your broad goals for it? Switow discusses how the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence has allowed for many services to be offered in the Jewish community, such as senior busing and after school programs. He talks about how he hopes for the fund to contribute to a larger change, such as a merger between the Jewish Community Center and the Standard Country Club. Community ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence ; Standard Country Club Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) https://jewishheritagefund.com/ The website for the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. 2137 Change in the Jewish community in Louisville, Kentucky So, um, looking at the Jewish community in Louisville today, there's certainly challenges, and there are certainly issues. How do you see the community having changed or evolved over your lifetime? Switow discusses changes he's seen in the Jewish community, including closure of the Jewish Day School. He mentions how there has been more Reform, how many are becoming more tolerant of interfaith relationships, and how there is decreased antisemitism in the general community. He also talks about how the Jewish population has decreased in Louisville due to the youth population moving to metropolitan areas, but now technology is able to counter this. He sees possibilities for the return of Jews to Louisville as the economy shifts. He sees the Jewish Community Center as a possible magnet for this. Anti-Semitism ; Community ; Discrimination ; Interfaith marriages ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish Day School ; Millennials ; Reform ; Social divisions ; Technology Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jewish-population-in-the-united-states-by-state Data from the U.S. Census Bureau about Jewish populations by state from 1899 to 2015. 2365 Experiences with anti-Semitism Um, have you had experiences with antisemitism in Louisville in your personal or professional life? Switow discusses how he experienced antisemitism growing up, and how he still faces it sometimes, but less overtly. He mentions how he's in financial management and how his clients are both Jewish and non-Jewish. Anti-Semitism ; Financial management Childhood ; Discrimination. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) 2420 Involvement of Jewish members in the Louisville community Um, have, have you seen other, uh, changes in the community in the way Jews interact in the world? Switow discusses how the Jewish community used to be involved just through the Jewish Community Center, Standard Club, the Synagogue, the Temples, the Jewish Hospital, and through other Jewish organizations. Now, he mentions, the Jewish population is involved in more than just the Jewish community and can be found in an array of organizations, clubs, and leadership roles offering many different services. Baptist Hospital ; Community ; Community service ; Country clubs ; Grandparents ; Jewish Community Center (JCC) ; Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass ; Jewish Hospital ; Norton Hospital ; Parents ; Synagogues ; University of Kentucky Families. ; Jewish businesspeople ; Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Volunteers 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) https://www.jewishlexington.org/ The website for the Jewish Federation of the Bluegrass. 2491 Religion and spirituality of the Jewish community Well, I have run through my list of questions. Switow discusses the difference between religion and spirituality and describes himself as more spiritual. He also describes the Jewish community as becoming more spiritual. While there still are many Jews who are involved religiously, Switow believes that the Jewish community has a larger spiritual presence that isn't accurately represented by the level of attendance at the Synagogue or the Temple. He does turn to his rabbi on personal matters. He says that treating everyone better than you want to be treated yourself is a core value. Community ; Membership ; Rabbis ; Religious services ; Spirituality ; Strength ; Values Jews--Identity. ; Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. ; Louisville (Ky.) ; Religion 38.225333, -85.741667 17 Louisville (Ky.) http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/religious-tradition/jewish/ Data collected about Jewish populations in the United States presented by the Pew Research Center. Information includes frequency of attendance at religious services. interview Mark Switow, born in 1958 in Louisville, Kentucky, grew up in a family of Jewish entrepreneurs and Jewish community leaders. Switow’s grandfather and great-uncles started M. Switow &amp ; Sons, an entertainment business throughout Southern Indiana and Kentucky. Switow’s father Irvin was also involved in the family’s concession supply business, Standard Vendors. Switow grew up in Louisville’s Adath Jeshurun Synagogue. He describes youth activities at the Louisville Jewish Community Center and the mixed Jewish and non-Jewish social circles he grew up in. He also discusses the development of the Standard Country Club for the Jewish community in response to the antisemitism of other private clubs and his recent desire to preserve the club as another center for the Jewish community. Switow served on the foundation board of the Jewish Hospital from 1996 to 2002 and on the full board from 2000 to 2012. From the merger and sale of Jewish Hospital, Switow and other Jewish Hospital board members created the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. ELY: Hey. I&#039 ; m Carol Ely, I&#039 ; m here with Mark Switow for the Jewish Kentucky Oral History Project, sponsored by the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. It&#039 ; s September 20th, 2016. Thank you for agreeing to do this interview, Mark. Uh-- SWITOW: It&#039 ; s an honor, my pleasure. ELY: I appreciate your coming down. So we&#039 ; ll start with just some basic personal questions that I&#039 ; m sure you will know the answers to, like when and where were you born? SWITOW: Jewish Hospital in Louisville, Kentucky, 1958. ELY: Jewish Hospital. Good start for a Jewish boy in Kentucky. SWITOW: (laughs) It was. There weren&#039 ; t--there weren&#039 ; t a whole lot of choices then where you were going to be born. ELY: And, uh, what were your parents&#039 ; names and occupations at that point? SWITOW: S--Sure. So Maxine Rudman Switow, uh, originally from, uh, Richmond, Virginia, married, uh, Irvin Bloom, better known as Sonny Switow. And, uh, dad was born and raised here in Louisville. He went to Male High School. ELY: And, uh, did you have brothers and sisters growing up? SWITOW: I do. I did, and-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --uh, they&#039 ; re both still with us. Um, my sister Arlene is two years older, and she lives out west in Colorado. And my brother Michael is nine years my junior, and he lives in Singapore. ELY: Oh. SWITOW: Neither one of them have ever come back to Kentucky since leaving, uh, for college. ELY: So just to take it back a bit, and then we&#039 ; ll come to your own story, tell me about the first members of your family that you know about who came to Kentucky or came to Louisville. SWITOW: OK. So there was Michael and Annie Switow. And Michael Switow actually wrote a thirty-seven-page autobiography about how he ended up in Louisville. Uh, so here, you have a Russian--um, and she was a Ger--uh, a Polish immigrant, to come to--to the States. And of all things, back in the &#039 ; 30s, they zigzagged throughout the Midwest. He was in St. Louis, he was in Paducah, Kentucky in the &#039 ; 30s, um, and he, I think when I last counted, through is thirty-seven-page autobiography, he probably had thirty-five to forty-five different jobs that he did over that course of his lifetime. ELY: This is your great-great-grandfather? SWITOW: My great-great--do I have that right? My great-grandfather. ELY: Great-grandfather. Right. Great---great-grandfather. SWITOW: Yes. Yes. ELY: So this was in the nineteenth century. This is way back? SWITOW: Well, no, this was in the, you know, 1930s we&#039 ; re talking. Yes. ELY: Oh, OK. OK. SWITOW: Yes. ELY: So he was zigzagging through here. But there&#039 ; s, um, uh, a story from someone in your family about growing up in Russia and about the poverty in Russia. Is that a story you&#039 ; re familiar with? SWITOW: Just from that autobiography. So just to correct myself-- ELY: --OK-- SWITOW: --that was actually the 1910s and &#039 ; 20s-- ELY: --OK-- SWITOW: --of when he came over. Um, and so he was the one that wrote that story, his autobiography there, um, which again, I have a copy of, and read--have read--read that to my kids at their bar or bat mitzvah as part of the excerpts from there. Really proud of that. ELY: Do you remember any great stories? SWITOW: Just that, you know, I just still can&#039 ; t imagine how someone of Jewish descent ends up in Paducah, Kentucky, um, in the 1910s. I mean, um, and how he ended up outside of the New York, you know, metropolitan south--you know, East--East Coast, ended up in the South is--is really a headscratcher. But I think a lot of it had to do with the direction of the railroad, how they ended up-- ELY: --mm-- SWITOW: --uh, being, uh, different parts in s--uh, of the country there. ELY: Did you know your great-grandfather personally? Did he live long enough? -----------(??) SWITOW: No. Unh-unh. He did not. My brother Michael was named after him, and, uh, I knew very little about him until we discovered this autobiography. ELY: And, uh, any other stories of your family coming, or your great-grandmother, or anyone on the other side of the family? Do you know where they came from in Europe? SWITOW: I don&#039 ; t. Um, my mom&#039 ; s side, uh, has, I think, roots going back more into the Northeast and the New York Area. And I don&#039 ; t know where they came from, uh, you know, when they came over on the boat. ELY: Well, one of your ancestors was an important part of establishing an industry in Louisville. Do you have, uh, any stories about the, uh-- SWITOW: Yeah, so that&#039 ; s the movie theater industry. ELY: --right-- SWITOW: The entertainment industry. So there were two parts of the family business that on the movie theater side, uh, throughout not just the Louisville area, but Southern Indiana throughout the state of Kentucky, the family was involved in drive-in theaters. Uh, best-known in our area was the Kentucky movie theater, the Vogue, the South Park in Preston Drive-Ins, then across the river, um, there was the, um, Rialto, I want to say. And then over in Lexington was the Row (??) and also the Kentucky Theater. And what I remember most was the marquee for the Kentucky still exists today on 4th Street. And my grandfather and two great-uncles&#039 ; offices were on the second floor there, cluttered with paper everywhere. And there was no filing system. Certainly no computers, as we know. But if you open up the window some, you could a--could actually sneak out on top of the marquee there as traffic was going up and down 4th Street there. That&#039 ; s one of my favorite memories of that. And being that it&#039 ; s still there today, because they&#039 ; ve converted that into a restaurant, which I&#039 ; ve been to a couple times, I get a smile on my face, good memories of, uh, fifty-plus--fifty-five years ago, being up on that, uh--on that sign. ELY: And it was your uncles who were running it? Uh, your-- SWITOW: --my great-uncles? Yes-- ELY: --great-uncles. SWITOW: Uh, so Fred was my grandfather-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --and he was the youngest of the three brothers. And then Harry--uh, and then Sam was the oldest. And Sam ruled the family. It was his way or no other way. Uh, and-- ELY: S--did you work in the theaters as a child, or-- SWITOW: No. So what I worked on is there--the side of the business that spawned off of that was what my dad ran, which was the concession supply business. So when Dad first developed this business with the help of Fred, uh, the business was designed to get concessions into all of our theaters--popcorn, candy, uh, Coke dispenser products, um, the paper goods that went along with it. And then they sort of, uh, s--you know, broadened that business out into Little League parks and swim clubs and the sort. So we had, uh, snow cone machines, cotton candy machines, caramel apple machines, and so forth. Uh, so we were really a drop-ship place. So they&#039 ; d take M&amp ; M&#039 ; s or Snickers. They would have a truck, and in my earlier days, I&#039 ; d help unload that truck onto palettes, and we&#039 ; d keep it in an air-conditioned warehouse, because it had to be air conditioned if you have chocolates in the middle of the summertime in Louisville, Kentucky, otherwise your products are going to melt and your inventory&#039 ; s gone. Um, and so that--that&#039 ; s really the side of the business that Dad worked and moved it much beyond just the family theaters, and that&#039 ; s where I worked. ELY: So as part of the industry from the very beginning, I think one of your--um, your great-grandfather was the first to put up a sheet in the back of his store in Jeffersonville? Does this sound familiar? And show films there, and then that became building theaters, and then it sounds like that then moved into the concessions business. SWITOW: That&#039 ; s right. ELY: So every aspect of it was part of your family. SWITOW: That&#039 ; s right. ELY: Was there an expectation that you would be part of the family business? SWITOW: Good question. Um, never had any pressure on us to follow in those footsteps. Uh, in fact, I really wanted to. And one of the best pieces of advice my dad ever gave me was--or, uh, just decisions, no. Because what he saw, the handwriting on the wall was think of it that he was a drop-ship place. So this was before the multiplex screened, uh, theaters that come in, you know, that really have caught the country, you know, by storm. You can&#039 ; t--you don&#039 ; t have neighborhood one-screeners anymore. You have sixteen screens, and they&#039 ; re owned by national conglomerates. So what do those national conglomerates get to do? They have buying power, so they could go directly to Coca-Cola, directly to M&amp ; M&#039 ; s, and to Snickers, and to all those products, and they could get drop-ship for their particular theaters all over the country. Somewhere like the Walmart kind of theory, or Costco. So the middle guy, Dad, his business was getting squeezed, and he saw that handwriting on the wall. And when I was twenty-one or so, I really was anxious to try and work with my dad. And he gave me the pushback, and that was probably the best thing he ever recommended I do business-wise of my life, because I would have been involved in a business that he ended up selling to paper products, which was--was run by Eddie Goldberg. Um, and Eddie bought something, that if you look, think of a chart, this business was doing this. It was there about when Dad sold. It was going to go end up there. So that&#039 ; s why I did not get in the family business. ELY: So did your uncles and cousins continue to try to run the theaters? Or did they also see the handwriting on the wall? SWITOW: Well, the theaters were winding down. Um, and then, uh, there were different small partnerships that the Sags (??), which were cousins of ours, helped to develop, and the Switows were involved. For instance, the Village 8 movie theaters, which just recently closed in the last year, or opened up over in Dupont. And so there were different family partnerships that were run. But Dad was more of a passive than an active partner in those. ELY: And also, the Vogue was your family? That was-- SWITOW: --the Vogue center, yes-- ELY: --until what, fifteen years ago or so? SWITOW: Gosh, I lose track. I bet you it&#039 ; s been longer than that, though, since it&#039 ; s been closed down and turned into that little strip center there. But everybody still, I think that&#039 ; s been around Louisville long enough refers to it as we&#039 ; re the Vogue--the Vogue center. ELY: That&#039 ; s a Louisville thing. You refer to thing--places by what used to be there. SWITOW: And homes by who--who the original homeowner was. ELY: Which is a little hard on newcomers, but yes. (laughs) SWITOW: Yes. ELY: But your family&#039 ; s theaters were an important part of the memories of a lot of people in Louisville. They regret the days that those neighborhood theaters closed. So, uh, it&#039 ; s, um-- SWITOW: Carol, I was everybody&#039 ; s best friend when we started dating on Saturday nights, because double date with me, we&#039 ; d go to the movies for free. ELY: Ah. Yeah. Did you spend a lot of time in the movies as a kid? SWITOW: We did. Oh yeah. It--the hardest thing, I think, for me was, um, realizing that when we sold the theaters, that I actually had to pay to go see one. ELY: Yes. It&#039 ; s true. It&#039 ; s true. Do you still have movies as a big part of your life? SWITOW: It is. It&#039 ; s a passionate part of my life. ELY: --mm-- SWITOW: Love them. And thankfully, my wife does as well. ELY: Do you have any fingers still in the industry, as an investor, or anything? SWITOW: Not a single--other than emotional. Nothing. ELY: Um-hm. So an era passed. SWITOW: It did. Yeah. ELY: It did. Well, to, um, st--stay in the past a little bit, um, your great-gran--grandfather also was very involved in Adath Jeshurun synagogue. SWITOW: --um-hm-- ELY: Is your family still associated with AJ? No? SWITOW: You know, um, Mom and Dad were the last members there. So as things transitioned, um, not necessarily a wonderful memory, but when I decided to marry someone who was not of the faith and, uh, just didn&#039 ; t go well on--on how it was presented for the conversion process or not, that we found that, uh, the Temple was a better spot for us as--as Reform. And so when Dad passed in 2010, Mom made the decision that she&#039 ; d rather to go services with us at the Temple, so she terminated her membership as well there. ELY: --yeah-- SWITOW: So 2011 was about the last time there--there was a Switow that was a member and involved in Adath Jeshurun. ELY: So growing up, though, you were a member of Adath Jeshurun? SWITOW: I was, yeah. ELY: And did you live in the Highlands neighborhood, then? No? SWITOW: No, so we have always lived off of Brownsboro Road. So we were part of that East End group that moved out that way. And it wasn&#039 ; t convenient at all for us to go there, quite frankly, when you think about it. I mean, traffic was nothing like it is today, but it was still twenty minutes round trip to go there. And so if you think about, we were there on, you know, a lot of Saturdays for services, went back on Sundays for Sunday School. And then when you got to the educational years for bar and bat mitzvah for my--my sister and my brother and I. Um, some of the lessons were taught at the Jewish Community Center, but many were back over at Adath Jeshurun. So all Mom was doing, if I think about it, was she was a taxi service. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: And, you know, so it&#039 ; s forty minutes round trip, and doing it twice a day, or, you know, two times, they drop us off, pick us up, go back and forth. It was really, uh, um, a sacrifice on her part to--to take us back and forth over there. ELY: Were your parents, um, active in the synagogue? Or did they have other roles in the Jewish community, board memberships and so forth? SWITOW: So Dad did a stint at one point, uh, vice president, uh, on the board of trustees at Adath Jeshurun. I know that my grandfather Fred and great-uncle Sam and Harry were both active on--on the boards there as well. Um, there was Switow Chapel that I was always proud of, that was at AJ. And I think when they did their last round of renovations, it came--push came to shove. It&#039 ; s money. And they were looking to raise money, and they wanted a significant amount to keep that name on there, and the moment had passed. ELY: Um-hm. And was your mother active in the synagogue or organizations? SWITOW: She was really active in the sisterhood over there. Uh, but, you know, at that point, if you think back then, Carol, I don&#039 ; t think there were women on the boards at--at the synagogues-- ELY: --probably not-- SWITOW: --particularly in the Conservative or Orthodox. So, uh, she was active in the sisterhood, though. ELY: Was she part of any other groups in the community? National Council of Jewish Women, or Hadassah? SWITOW: She was really active in the National Council of Jewish Women, and now I&#039 ; m going to rack my brain. She was active, Carol, in the suicide hotline group. I mean, that was--something that was a passion of hers for--for many years outside of the Jewish community. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: And I wish I&#039 ; d written a few things--things down, because I know there&#039 ; s others-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --and I&#039 ; m shortchanging her by not remembering right now. ELY: Right. Did you have a profession outside of raising you and your--your siblings and, uh, working in the synagogue? SWITOW: She was president and CEO of our house. ELY: OK. And, uh, in your family, growing up, um, what was your Jewish life like? Did you observe the holidays and Shabbat, and w--what--what kind of Jewish life did you have? SWITOW: Every Friday night was--our family was spent with, uh, Fred. And Fred had, um, two wives. Uh, Miriam was such a lovely, sweet lady, and she passed when I was six years old. And Fred me--remarried, I think, when I was about nine, or eight or nine year sold, to Rina (??). And so they--they hosted us every Friday night. Um, Dad&#039 ; s brother, my uncle Arnold Switow, would be there as well. So we would have a white tablecloth, uh, dinner, uh, at--at the grandparents&#039 ; . For a while, they lived at the Brown Suburban on Bardstown Road, and then they moved down to the 800 Building, and that was it. So you--we would from school, go home, change. Five-thirty, we&#039 ; d be downtown, uh, or--or, you know, get on Bardstown Road for the Kiddush, the lighting--women would go in the other room, light the candles. We&#039 ; d have the dinner, and, uh, we&#039 ; d be out of there. So that--that was every Friday night. And every Sunday, the family would meet at Mario&#039 ; s Pizza in St. Matthews, which is now either--I think it&#039 ; s Ratterman&#039 ; s Funeral Home is, uh, but that was the spot, every Sunday night, we&#039 ; d be there. And a lot of Saturdays, particularly as our--going through our bar and bat mitzvah training, which was required for us to--to be at at least three out of every four Shabbos services, we&#039 ; d be at synagogue on Saturdays. So it was pretty active, and then during the--Sunday afternoons, as we got older, we&#039 ; d be over at the Jewish community center, um, my sister and my brother and I, we all were in the--in the--the clubs over there, and we&#039 ; re actively involved in high school and playing sports over there on Sundays. ELY: Right. The clubs were very important in that era-- SWITOW: --huge-- ELY: --in the lives of Jewish teenagers. Can you talk a little bit more about what went on there, and what it meant to you? SWITOW: Yeah. Um, so, you know, starting when you were in seventh grade, as you were looking up to the ninth, tenth graders and the sort, it would basically--it was an opportunity to bring different--those of us from different schools into one location. So a lot of us went to Ballard, and then, um, the folks that had stayed in the, uh, communities off of Bardstown Road went to Atherton or Seneca, there were a few at Waggener. But it brought us all together there so that regardless of what high school, you ended up being, at one point, in one of five of the boys&#039 ; clubs. And it&#039 ; s unfortunate, I think at this point, maybe there&#039 ; s one that would survive, but it was very athletically driven and socially driven. So we would have great sporting events with flag football, basketball, softball, to name a few that would carry us throughout the--the school year that was in competition there every Sunday, and then we&#039 ; d have practices during the week that would bring us all together. But the--we had memories there that basically, we were at the JCC on Sundays from right after Sunday school at 12:30, and you got home at, like, six o&#039 ; clock at night. It was--that was part of life. ELY: Huh. And there were parties, too, and dances? SWITOW: Yeah. There--so there were social gatherings between the boys&#039 ; and the girls&#039 ; clubs there, uh, different socials that--that we would have. And, uh, f--I don&#039 ; t know, I&#039 ; m thinking, I just want to say formals, but those were more college fraternities, when you could say formals. But there was weekend or whatever they called it, um, but it was a lot of fun to look forward to. And some of those friends, we still have fun today poking fun at each other, that you were in that club, and we beat you at that time, and so on and so forth, back and forth. ELY: Do you feel like your circle of friends was mostly, um, Jewish kids that you knew from--uh, from the clubs? Or did you also have high school friends? Was it a mixed group? SWITOW: Mine was mixed. And I think it was driven--it was interesting, Carol, that there were--there was a division in the Jewish community. There were those of us that were out in the East End at Ballard High School that were the country club kids. So we went to Standard Country Club, and we were the ones that played golf and swam out there. And there was another group that was more in the highlands that went to the Jewish Community Center. And I wouldn&#039 ; t say there was a rift or something, but there was a clear distinction between the two. So again, I think because of some things I did competitively with golf and with playing basketball, I ended up having a balance of friends that were both Jewish and non-Jewish. ELY: Huh. Uh, you mentioned the Standard Club. Can you talk a little bit more about what it was like to be a kid and have access to that facility? SWITOW: So my smile comes on my face because that&#039 ; s really important to me. The--what folks forget is that on River Road and Zorn Avenue, which is now a field where they&#039 ; re running high school track, was a golf course. And that golf course was built in 1875, and it was the original Standard Country Club. And through the middle of that piece of property was this train trestle, and this train trestle--my uncle, uh, was a big guy, and not a good golfer, but occasionally he could clock a golf ball, but nobody could ever get it over the train trestle on their drive, and it was a blind shot where you land on the other side. Well, he, as a kid, got it over there, and ended up hitting somebody with his golf ball, and went running off of--(laughs)--it was--it was a--the first--he was the first to have hit the ball that far. And, uh, you know, it was really cool that it was the Switows that started it there, but more importantly, where it moved to in 1952 was instrumental, was Fred--was more Sam and Harry and Fred Switow that got it out there to where it is today. And it was nine holes, and, uh, the nine holes, uh, became eighteen holes in 1961. ELY: So the Standard Club essentially started as a golf club, but then expanded into other facilities? Is that right? SWITOW: To a point. It had a swimming pool in there initially, and maybe, uh, a tennis court or two built after that. At that time, Carol, you asked me if I had friends that were both Jewish and non-Jewish. We did, but there was a very--written rule, I mean, that, uh, clubs were discriminatory. And the reasons that Jewish Hospital was originated back in the nin--you know, early 1900s, uh, or earlier than that, I lose track of time, was because Jewish doctors weren&#039 ; t allowed to practice anywhere else. And on the country club side, if you wanted to belong to a country club, there were so many of them that--that we weren&#039 ; t allowed to--to a--to join, and maybe had a few problems with even visiting there. So that&#039 ; s where the country club was developed there, so that Jewish people could play golf. ELY: I&#039 ; m going to jump ahead in time, and then we&#039 ; ll go back again. There&#039 ; s an effort today to preserve the--the Standard Club for the community. Have you been involved with--with that, uh, trying to think through the twenty-first century Standard Club, and what it will be? SWITOW: Yeah. Did they tell you to ask me that question? ELY: No, they didn&#039 ; t. SWITOW: OK. ELY: I--if it&#039 ; s a question you&#039 ; re not comfortable answering at this point, that&#039 ; s fine. SWITOW: No, I&#039 ; m very comfortable answering, but I&#039 ; m also the guy that&#039 ; s, um-- ELY: I spoke with Louis Waterman who--who spoke with great fervor about it. SWITOW: So there--there were three of us that, uh, s--saw an opportunity to preserve the--the Standard Country Club. So the Standard Country Club was in debt, and there was a note held by the bank, and the bank was going to call the note, and the bank didn&#039 ; t want to do that politically. Didn&#039 ; t want to do it emotionally either, but they have a responsibility to do things. And so there was this group of three of us that orchestrated this, Carol, so that we, um, made an investment from the Heritage Foundation into Standard Country Club, not because we want to be in the golf business, but we did this because it was an opportunity for essentially to take that 148 acres and maintain a golf course there, and--and have a community center. And our vision was, and still is, to a point, if we can get the rest of the community to join on our bandwagon, is essentially make it a spot in--on the East Side of town that would be for community meetings. Could be for theater presentations, could be for boys&#039 ; and girls&#039 ; clubs, could be for camps. Because on that property, you have golf, you have tennis, you have swimming, you have fishing, OK? You can run. I mean, there&#039 ; s all kinds of property and activities that can be done there. And I saw it, as did a few others, that there&#039 ; s nothing else like it. If you think about it, there are community centers, there are health clubs, there are golf clubs, there are houses of worship. Where&#039 ; s one all in one? That&#039 ; s what this opportunity is, there. So it&#039 ; s exciting. So we bought it, um, at a discount as an investment for the foundation of which we have the right we could sell it. Uh, but we&#039 ; re there to make a difference with the--with the Heritage Foundation. And if the investment turns out that we make money because nobody else joined on our bandwagon, then we have a fiscal responsibility, financial responsibility to an organization to do that. But that&#039 ; s why we&#039 ; re there. ELY: OK. It&#039 ; s interesting to hear the different parts of town that have meaning for different people. And clearly, for the people who grew up in the East End, that&#039 ; s a--a key spot, along with, for a lot of people, the Jewish Community Center. So that&#039 ; s why I asked. So now we&#039 ; re going to talk about you again, and go back in time. So, uh, where did you go to college? If you did go to college, where did you go to college? Yes. SWITOW: I did, yes. Um, so I was a mediocre student. My, uh, mantra is C students rule the world, and that&#039 ; s what I was, a C student. Um, I--what else? I didn&#039 ; t let my classes interfere with my college education. So I-- ELY: Did you go to school locally? Or-- SWITOW: I would--actually, I--at that time, it was easier standards, and I also had aspirations of excelling in golf, so I wanted to go south. And I went to the University of South Carolina for one year. And that was an OK experience. I certainly could have stayed academically, but I decided that the cost and everything else, I ended up transferring back to University of Kentucky. And so in &#039 ; 77--uh, &#039 ; 76 and &#039 ; 77, I was at, uh, South Carolina, and then from &#039 ; 77 to &#039 ; 80, finished up my last three years in Lexington at UK. ELY: And, uh, at either place, were you part of, uh, Jewish groups? Hillel or anything else? SWITOW: Great question. Um, no. And it--uh, there was--there was just--w--those two schools, particularly Kentucky. Let me talk about that, while I was growing up. All the Jewish kids from the Louisville area that were going to go out of state, or to state universities, IU had a great Jewish presence, because you had the Chicago folks and the Detroit folks coming down, and there were probably three different--at least two or maybe three different Jewish fraternities and a couple different Jewish sororities. There was barely enough to hold a minyan at UK--at Kentucky. Now that&#039 ; s really changed with the help of Eli Capilouto, who&#039 ; s the president over there, who&#039 ; s Jewish, and also with Mark Kornbluh, who is head of, uh, the College of Arts and Sciences. And you probably may not know this, but now at UK, there is, uh, a three-hour accredited class in Yiddish-- ELY: --mm-- SWITOW: --at UK. But it wasn&#039 ; t like that when I was growing up. Th--there were very few Jewish kids that were there. So it--for the holidays, you know, thankfully, I was just but an hour away, that I could come home for, uh, those, but there was very little Jewish, uh, influence at all there back then. ELY: Have you stayed involved with UK, and, uh, you--you seem familiar with what&#039 ; s going on there now. Are you-- SWITOW: Yeah. So I&#039 ; m one of those rare breeds. I&#039 ; m on a board of the University of Louisville and the University of Kentucky. ELY: --ah-- SWITOW: It&#039 ; s not all about sports. ELY: So you wear purple a lot, I notice. SWITOW: Uh, it&#039 ; s not all about the sorts. You know, blue suit with red underwear maybe, or something. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: Uh, but--or a red tie, but, um, at University of Kentucky, I am on the, uh, advisory council at the College of Arts and Science. And I&#039 ; ve been actively involved in other things. I&#039 ; ve been actually the one that&#039 ; s helped to coordinate getting, uh, the university introduced to the Heritage Foundation-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --because we thought--and, you know, myself leading the way that, um, it was very important to introduce those that have never had really access to--to Jews, to let them know that we don&#039 ; t have horns, and that, uh, they need to know about our religion as much as anybody else&#039 ; s. And so we&#039 ; ve had, uh, with University, uh, submitting some great proposals, some grants that we have over there. And my hope is that we f--spread this out to Western Kentucky University and Murray State and Morehead and Eastern Kentucky University. It&#039 ; s not just UK, but UK, um, was the first one that came to us. So I&#039 ; ve been actively involved, and have gotten to know Eli Capilouto, the president there. ELY: --hmm-- SWITOW: Uh, and it&#039 ; s really, uh, just been a wonderful experience. ELY: Great. SWITOW: And I&#039 ; m also, like I said, on the--on the board of the University of Louisville. I don&#039 ; t want to slight them at all-- ELY: --(laughs)-- SWITOW: --and I love the advisory board I&#039 ; m on there that connects the business community with, uh, the students there. So I--I like supporting both of it. You know, the Louisville Board supports Louisville, and the Kentucky Board supports my alma mater. ELY: Great. Um, so have you traveled to Israel? Has this been part of your Jewish identity, your Jewish education? SWITOW: I&#039 ; ve never been. ELY: OK. Uh, you plan to go, I bet? SWITOW: Someday. ELY: Someday. Um, OK, so when and how did you meet your wife? You said you&#039 ; ve been married twenty-eight years? So-- SWITOW: Yeah. Uh, I didn&#039 ; t meet my wife very far from this studio. We were fixed up on a Friday night, and we met at a bar. But we--it was a fixup at a bar, and, um, it was, um, my f--it&#039 ; s my--it is my first marriage, and it will be my only. Uh, and it was Tammy&#039 ; s second. And so when we got married, I became a husband and a father in one fell swoop to a, uh, a six-year-old son who actually now works with me in my business, and has. And, uh, for the last, almost four years, and made me a grandfather of twin boys, six months ago. ELY: Congratulations. SWITOW: Thank you so much. ELY: Yeah. And, uh, your family mentioned that your wife wasn&#039 ; t Jewish. SWITOW: Right. ELY: So how did you negotiate that in your--you know, as personal as you wish to be, you know, in your relationship and in--and in--in, uh, raising your son? W--did you have a--a kind of Jewish family life? SWITOW: We did. Yes. So, um, we talked, and--and, uh, Tammy made a commitment that we would raise our children Jewish. And both Sam and Katie were, uh, bar and bat mitzvahed. Ryan was, uh, a convenient Jew. So when he was in grade school and high school and could take off for the holidays, he came to services with us, to get out of school. ELY: So you had two more children along the way? SWITOW: Yes. Yeah. ELY: Yes. OK. SWITOW: Yeah. So Ryan at this date in--in 2016 is thirty-three, and Sam&#039 ; s twenty-four, a recent college graduate, and Katie&#039 ; s an undergrad down in North Carolina at a small college down there, High Point. And she&#039 ; s twenty. So we agreed to raise them, uh, with a Jewish influence there. And with Mom and Dad being around, we still lit the candles on an occasional Friday night with them, celebrated, uh, you name it. Um, celebrated Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur with them, Hanukkah, Passover. The Seders would be at our house or Mom and Dad&#039 ; s house. And then I became what was coined, um, a C&amp ; E Christian, Christmas and Easter. ELY: --ah, OK-- SWITOW: That&#039 ; s a C&amp ; E. So, you know, we--I would accompany her, and--and, uh, enjoy going to her services and supporting her as well. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: But we light candles, and the sort. ELY: And, um, OK. Um, switching topics, yeah? Uh, your family&#039 ; s been affiliated with Jewish Hospital for a long time too, I believe. SWITOW: --yeah-- ELY: Um, primarily in the--the business side. Is that correct, rather than medical? SWITOW: What do you--well, no body--I&#039 ; m sorry, nobody was on medical staff there. That&#039 ; s correct. ELY: Right, right. But--but fundraising and governance? SWITOW: Yeah. ELY: So who got involved? SWITOW: You know, Carol, that&#039 ; s a great question, as far as what, uh--my dad was never involved with Jewish Hospital, but I know that, um, Sam and Harry and Fred have some influence there. And then in 1996, I was asked to come on to the foundation board and served on that board, um, until 2002, and then the overlap was from 2000 to 2012, while it still was Jewish Hospital, I was on the full board. So I was the first Switow that I know of that was on the board there. Sam, Fred, and Harry might have been, I just never saw the records there. ELY: Uh, I think they--they did fundraising. I&#039 ; m not sure if it was a board membership. SWITOW: Yeah. ELY: But, um, the foundation, the Jewish Hospital Foundation, what was the mission of the foundation? But it still exists, is that correct? SWITOW: It does still exist. ELY: --OK-- SWITOW: Um, and it&#039 ; s confusing. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: Um, but the--the mission is that, uh, they are there to, uh, raise money to extend grants for medical research. That&#039 ; s really the sole mission of that foundation, to, uh, you know, explore better ways to practice medicine, and keep us all safe and sound. ELY: And, uh, then when the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence was established, could you tell me a little bit about the history of how that happened and what the relationship was with Jewish Hospital? SWITOW: Yeah, that was a very interesting negotiation. So they got a bit contentious as Jewish Hospital and Catholic Health Initiatives, CHI, were coming together, of who was buying who, whether it was a merger of equals or whatever. And it got down to about the eleventh hour, and there was going to be a--um, an agreement made that was strictly going to be the Jewish Hospital side was going to have a minority ownership in the bigger entity. And a couple of us just sort of said, wait a second. Let&#039 ; s take a little smaller percentage, and let&#039 ; s--let&#039 ; s--how about some money, and that money is going to go into a foundation? So I think part of my dash when I die, on my headstone, will be I was one of the ones, um, that were--are responsible for having a pool of money that we got. So Carol, it&#039 ; s public record. We negotiated out that we got, um, $70 million to put into the Heritage Foundation, and then we had to decide what we were, and I&#039 ; ll get into that in a second. And then we had, uh, a few other dollars from Four Courts Nursing that were sold out that rolled into that as well. So essentially, we started with about 75, $80 million. And I&#039 ; m proud to say a mere four years later was giving away a fair amount of money every year. We&#039 ; re worth $100 million. And so as we formed ourselves, part of our responsibility back to the medical community was that a majority of the funds that we give out each year would go for medical causes. And then the balance would go for Jewish causes. So it&#039 ; s a great board to be on. We don&#039 ; t fundraise ; we don&#039 ; t ask anybody for any money. In fact, I don&#039 ; t--you know, nobody&#039 ; s ever given us any, uh, because we don&#039 ; t ask. So all&#039 ; s we do is we meet to make sure that the money is properly managed, and then we look at grants, and we give money away. What a great place to be. ELY: Uh, how were the first criteria established for what you would give money to? More than half to medical research, and then the rest within the Jewish community of Kentucky is the mandate? SWITOW: You know, there&#039 ; s some grey area in there, but we hope that, you know, most of it should stay within Kentucky. And there&#039 ; s--there&#039 ; s debate on whether it&#039 ; s Jefferson County, or it expands out. And you know, as I mentioned earlier, we&#039 ; ve ex--you know, given grants over at the University of Kentucky. So it&#039 ; s beyond just the boundaries of Jefferson County. And we can go into Southern Indiana, but there were negotiations back and forth, um, and it&#039 ; s not--I&#039 ; m not being coy, I just don&#039 ; t remember how all them came together, but there was definitely give and take of how we were going to do this. Uh, backing up on the-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --negotiations between Jewish Hospital and CHI. It&#039 ; s like one of those jokes, you know, a rabbi and a priest walk into a bar. Well, the rabbis and the priests got into a room. Um, and I don&#039 ; t know if this has come up in any of your other interviews, but they listed out ethical religious directives, ERDs. And they said, OK, here&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s important to the Catholics, here&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s important to the Jewish community, and there were eighty of them. Out of eighty ERDs, seventy-eight of them were agreed upon between the Catholics and the Jews. There were two areas that there were, you know, differentiations, and it&#039 ; s pretty easy to guess. It&#039 ; s abortion and stem cell research. So some of the things that the foundation will do is separated out from Catholic Health Initiatives. If we&#039 ; re going to fund something that might have been Jewish Hospital-directed, it&#039 ; s not a conflict, um, for the Catholic side of it that we&#039 ; re stepping into something that they don&#039 ; t endorse. ELY: So you could fund stem cell research, for instance? I see. SWITOW: We could. Yes. So seventy-eight out of eighty is a pretty interesting stat. I&#039 ; ll always remember that. ELY: And, uh, how do you see the fund having an impact on the community in the future, and what are your broad goals for it? SWITOW: So my goal is maybe different than others, but I believe that in the first four years, we&#039 ; ve helped to sustain and keep alive certain programs that may have died on the vine. It might be getting seniors bussed from one place to another, it might be getting, um, you know, youngsters, five, seven, ten years old into different programs after school, or, you know, during the summer months, OK? That&#039 ; s great, and that is really important. That&#039 ; s what I would call our blocking and tackling. That&#039 ; s what we have to keep in place. But I&#039 ; ve got this vision that we&#039 ; ve got an opportunity with this amount of money, that we can do something on a very grand, spectacular fashion. I hope it&#039 ; s the Jewish Community Center-slash-Standard Country Club that come together as one. It may not, but that&#039 ; s my hope and my vision. If it&#039 ; s not that, it&#039 ; s something else. We have enough money to last for generations and make a real impact and a real difference for something that could have never happened without this sum of money. And maybe if somebody used this in thirty years, and they say, &quot ; Hundred million, that&#039 ; s not much.&quot ; But in today&#039 ; s dollars, that puts us at about one of the top five foundations in this area. It&#039 ; s significant. ELY: So, um, looking at the Jewish community in Louisville today, there&#039 ; s certainly challenges, and there are certainly issues. How do you see the community having changed or evolved over your lifetime? SWITOW: I think that started on the religious side first, that, um, it wasn&#039 ; t--I wouldn&#039 ; t say unacceptable, but it wasn&#039 ; t the norm that you would have Jews marrying outside of the religion. And now it&#039 ; s much more the norm. And so, you know, members of the clergy have--and it was embraced much earlier on in Reform, but it&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s flowed upstream to the Conservative and maybe even the Orthodox that this is going to happen. And--and if they want to keep at least fifty percent of that family engaged, they better understand that they--that they--that those kind of couples should--shouldn&#039 ; t be shunned. ELY: --mm-- SWITOW: So I think that&#039 ; s the first thing on the religious side. And it&#039 ; s unfortunate that there is no, uh, Jewish Day School anymore. Um, you know, maybe they&#039 ; ll be resurrected. Um, so that&#039 ; s an unfortunate thing, is in regards to the religious side. In regards the, um, I guess, the community side and the social side, it&#039 ; s blurred lines now. It&#039 ; s not as d--as clear divisions as it was for my grandparents, my parents, and pretty much for me. Um, I mean, I&#039 ; ve gotten invitations to belong, to join certain clubs in town here that I think my grandfather might roll over in his grave if I accepted. But the point being, to answer your question, that&#039 ; s what&#039 ; s changed, that I think we&#039 ; ve all come that--so Rodney King, why can&#039 ; t we just all get along? ELY: Um-hm. Uh, some people have identified the problem of young people leaving and not coming back to Louisville, so that there&#039 ; s a kind of absence of millennials, for lack of a better word. Do you see that as an issue, and do you have any ideas about that? SWITOW: It&#039 ; s certainly an issue when you have thirteen-plus-thousand families when I was young, and now there&#039 ; s less than eight thousand families. And you look at the amount of those families that have, as I put my fingers up, that are in that twenty to thirty-year-old--twenty to thirty-five-year-old grouping. It&#039 ; s a lot--hell of a lot less than it ever was. I see the tide turn a little bit, though. I think between the entrepreneurial mindset of Louisville and the fact that it&#039 ; s a virtual world, that you don&#039 ; t have to be in a Chicago or a Detroit or, you know, pick--pick a major metropolitan area in this region, that you can come back here. And I think that the--you know, we&#039 ; re attracting more than we once did. I see a slight turn in that-- ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: --to the positive. ELY: Do you think the foundation has any part in that, or is that not a philanthropic issue, it&#039 ; s more a business issue? SWITOW: I think it absolutely will have a part. Understand, we&#039 ; ve only been giving money away for four years. ELY: Right. SWITOW: But as we give this money away and establish more of these programs that will attract executives to accept positions, or even start businesses up here, accept positions with companies that offer jobs for them here, or for them to do startups here, and they look at what&#039 ; s involved in the Jewish community, you know, again, back to my hope dream and vision. Imagine they come and they say, gee, there&#039 ; s a place that&#039 ; s got a golf course, uh, a community center, a swimming pool, a camp. They have theater there and everything. Nobody else ever has anything like that. This is really unique here. And they actually even have--perhaps, you know, they can hold services here, you know, as--as makeshift sanctuaries. We don&#039 ; t see that anywhere else, that&#039 ; s pretty unique. So I think the impact of the--of the Heritage Foundation through the years, um, uh, is going to have a real positive effect. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: Now understand, I&#039 ; m a positive person. My glass is always half full, so maybe I&#039 ; m a dreamer. But I do see it on--on the upturn. ELY: Um, have you had experiences with antisemitism in Louisville in your personal or professional life? Or do you feel that that was a previous generation that dealt with that, and it&#039 ; s--it&#039 ; s done? SWITOW: Sure. I d--can&#039 ; t imagine for any of us that have crossed out of, um, the bubble and--and--and interacted with other parts of the community that you can&#039 ; t--you couldn&#039 ; t--everybody&#039 ; s encountered that. It&#039 ; s how you&#039 ; ve dealt with it. Do I encounter it today? Not overtly. ELY: And today you&#039 ; re in--uh, your profession is-- SWITOW: So I&#039 ; m in--in financial management. ELY: --um-hm-- SWITOW: I manage people&#039 ; s money, and so-- ELY: A few Jews are in that business. SWITOW: What&#039 ; s that again? ELY: A few--a few Jews are in that business, yes. SWITOW: Yes, a few of us are in that business. And, um, Carol, I have just as many clients that are not of the faith, um, that are my clients as those that are. ELY: Um, good to hear. Um, have--have you seen other, uh, changes in the community in the way Jews interact in the world? Um, have you, uh, felt in your personal life that--that, um, being here in the twenty-first century is--is new? And-- SWITOW: Let&#039 ; s--let&#039 ; s talk about it from-- ELY: --OK-- SWITOW: --from a short, from a community service angle. So when my grandparents, or even parents got involved, where did they get involved with? Their synagogues, the federation, Jewish Hospital, the Jewish Country Club. Today, I think you&#039 ; ll see--you&#039 ; ll find members--uh, Jewish members that are involved in Baptist Hospital, Norton&#039 ; s Hospital, Univer--on the university-level boards, both in Kentucky, UK, and at University of Louisville. And by the way, the chairman of the board of University of Kentucky, Jewish. ELY: --hmm-- SWITOW: OK? You know, uh, so I think that you see that members of the Jewish Community are in--in a lot areas that they once weren&#039 ; t giving access to, or even considered giving their time to. So on--from a community service level, big difference today in this generation than it was two generations ago. ELY: Mm. Well, I have run through my list of questions. You asked me about that at the beginning. But is there anything that, um, you would like to talk about that I haven&#039 ; t asked you about? Anything that you think it&#039 ; s important to be, sort of, a story on the record, or a thought on the record, or an opinion on the record? SWITOW: Hmm. May have to cut the tape, and I may have to think about this for a minute. Um, so Carol, I--I think the most important thing, um, or what--what rules my life is that--a--and we&#039 ; d had this at a, uh, a dinner party just recently. And I was sitting across the table from someone who was Catholic. And I s--we were just going back and forth after--over a glass of wine at dinner. I said, you know, how often do you go to church, you know? How often do you go to confessional? And I asked--and he goes, &quot ; Why are you asking all these questions?&quot ; I said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m just curious, because I don&#039 ; t go to organized services very often. I&#039 ; m very close with my rabbi. I mean, I consider him a very good friend of mine, and when I can reach out, and which I did recently about a very personal problem, family issue, that I--I could trust him.&quot ; And he s--and the guy challenged me across the table, he goes, &quot ; Do you consider yourself more religious or more spiritual?&quot ; And I said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m clearly more spiritual. I&#039 ; m very proud of being Jewish. Um, uh, if you go through life and you don&#039 ; t try and treat people as good as yourself but have a mindset &#039 ; I&#039 ; m going to treat everybody better than I would want to be treated myself,&#039 ; it&#039 ; ll pay you back in spades. Um, and it&#039 ; s just the way life works in that way.&quot ; So I think our community is laden very heavily with those that are spiritual. I&#039 ; m being completely respectful for those who are religious and are devout and go to minyan and go to Shabbat services, and everything else like that. I respect them immensely if they&#039 ; re doing it for reasons for themselves. But spiritually, um, I think it&#039 ; s very prevalent in our community, both on all sides, but particularly on the Jewish community, that you can look at attendance at services, is nowhere near indicative of how strong the spirituality is of the Jewish community here. That, to me, is the most--single most important thing that I could tell you. ELY: OK. Well, thank you for being willing to be interviewed, and sharing your thoughts. SWITOW: I&#039 ; m honored. Um, as I told you when you called, there&#039 ; s none of us left. I mean, I have a brother who&#039 ; s nine years younger but he lives in Singapore. Yeah, Sam Switow, my son, um, twenty-four, he&#039 ; s not quite qualified to do this yet. And so if you look in the phone book, it&#039 ; s me. So I think you got me by default, but I appreciate, uh, the honor of--of being able to represent the family. ELY: Well, a--a long legacy with your family. So-- SWITOW: Thank you, Carol. ELY: OK. [End of interview.] All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. video Interviews may only be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, University of Kentucky Libraries. 0 http://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh403_jk038_switow_ohm.xml 2016oh403_jk038_switow_ohm.xml https://kentuckyoralhistory.org/ark:/16417/xt7w6m33529z OHMS Object https://www.nunncenter.net/ohms/render.php?cachefile=2016oh403_jk038_switow_ohm.xml Interview Rights All rights to the interviews, including but not restricted to legal title, copyrights and literary property rights, have been transferred to the University of Kentucky Libraries. Interview Usage Interviews may be reproduced with permission from Louie B. Nunn Center for Oral History, Special Collections, University of Kentucky Libraries. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mark Switow, September 20, 2016 Description An account of the resource Mark Switow, born in 1958 in Louisville, Kentucky, grew up in a family of Jewish entrepreneurs and Jewish community leaders. Switow’s grandfather and great-uncles started M. Switow & Sons, an entertainment business throughout Southern Indiana and Kentucky. Switow’s father Irvin was also involved in the family’s concession supply business, Standard Vendors. Switow grew up in Louisville’s Adath Jeshurun Synagogue. He describes youth activities at the Louisville Jewish Community Center and the mixed Jewish and non-Jewish social circles he grew up in. He also discusses the development of the Standard Country Club for the Jewish community in response to the antisemitism of other private clubs and his recent desire to preserve the club as another center for the Jewish community. Switow served on the foundation board of the Jewish Hospital from 1996 to 2002 and on the full board from 2000 to 2012. From the merger and sale of Jewish Hospital, Switow and other Jewish Hospital board members created the Jewish Heritage Fund for Excellence. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 2016oh403_jk038 Subject The topic of the resource Genealogy Jewish businesspeople Small business--Kentucky Small business--Ownership Religion Jewish children--Kentucky--Louisville Louisville (Ky.) Childhood Discrimination. Families. Jews--Identity. Jews--Kentucky--Louisville. Judaism Jewish leadership--Kentucky--Louisville Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video